need some Osage Orange and Rver cane

[scrapcan]

I would like to get some smaller osage orange stock to make atlatl dart points and nocks. The points need to be in the 1 inch range so I can turn them down to 19mm or less and 3 to 6 inch in length. the nock can be much smaller in diameter and length.

Also looking for nice river cane for dart shaft. need 6 to 7 foot lengths.
I anyone has some to trade or sell let me know.

[waksupi]

You may find the osage will not stand a lot of end shock for the dart points. Years ago, I made a tomahawk handle from osage. First throw that I didn't rotate properly and it hit on the end, it shattered full length.

Come to think of it, at the club shoot last weekend, one of the primitive tech guys was telling me of using cat tail for the darts, and a hard wood insert. I'm going to give that a try, considering they are cheap, plentiful, and straight.

[scrapcan]

Yep have seen the cat tail stocks used, around here they don't get long enough before the wind or snow knocks them down. I am going to try to find some longer ones to try. I am using 6.5 to 7 ft darts at the present and have used down to 5.5 foot length. much shorter and I lose any sense of control, but that is likely my technique.

I would bet that Hawk handle was nice looking! I just learned to throw hawks this summer, it is an enjoyable time. I was not as good at throwing the knives though!

I have not used Osage Orange for dart tips yet, but one of my mentors uses them exclusively. I think he may heat or steam them. They are hard, but not brittle. I would like to try a few and then give the remainders to the group for their use. I have been using small straight sided copper tips, they work good but I think I need a little more weight forward to aid in consistency.

[nanuk]

re: Osage
I would have thought that Osage would make perfect dart tips.

otherwise, you could try hickory, or elm. Tough, yet resilient.

[oneokie]

You may want to find some persimmon to use for tips, it is very hard when well dried. It was used for the shuttlecocks in looms because of its wear resistance.

[scrapcan]

oneokie,

I would try persimmon also if I could get it. know anyone with some to pass along, trade, sell ??

[felix]

Or Locust, which is used in the kid games which use them as pegs to be hammered into holes. ... felix

[scrapcan]

Felix,

Locust I can do. I had not even thought about it using it.

Still need some River cane if anyone lives where it grows, other hard woods would be welcome also. does not need to be dimensional wood, sticks and twigs of about 1 inch would do. I would be glad to purchase and pay shipping.

[sundog]

Oneokie, prexactly, persimmon. It's worth a try, and I know where the is some well seasoned....

[Mumblypeg]

I have some persimmon... been drying in my barn for years. :coffee:

[oneokie]

Have you given thought to Willow for the shaft material?

[calaloo]

manleyjt. How long should the pieces of cane be? And the diameters at both ends? There are a few canebreaks on the river near here. Maybe I can help. I also have some osage orange dimensional pieces. I have heard persimmon refered to a American ebony. Not for the color but for the toughness.

[fryboy]

persimmon is closely related to ebony , so it should be hard , hedge ( bois darc , osage orange etc ) while hard is as ric noted , it's also not the easiest wood to turn ( it tends to be stringy on the lathe much like hickory without hickory's ummm resistance to shock value ) yet it does add alot of strength to a bow , willow is what i was taught for arrows but many things will work , i have a few scraps of hedge ( and assorted other woods ) but have the feeling what you need is still on the tree as most of mine is cut to knife handle slab sizes altho some of it mite be nock sized ( mostly around here hedge gets cut for firewood and fence post and it makes awesome smoking wood )

[scrapcan]

Calaloo,
The stuff I have been using is about 6.5 to 7 feet long, 1/2 to 5/8 diameter at large end and 1/4 inch at small end. We can use shorter stuff for the kids to use or for the big kids to experiment with.

They are used with the weight forward and nock at small end, Fletched, and a point or tip set on a foreshaft (or not).

I have used some reed but the river cane seems to be best for me.

Oneokie,
I have also used hardwood darts of 6, 6.5, and 7ft length and various diameter (yep one long piece), it makes my elbow hurt, I have narrowed it down to there not being enough flex (spine) to the material. I have not tried willow based on my experience with the hardwood. I may end up on that path though. It will have to dry and then be straightened and tuned. Cane is easy to straighten and it dries pretty quick also.

For everyone that has interest
Here is a short series of videos on utube that shows dart construction.

Part 1 dart construction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_zkAdHrU_A

Part 2 dart construction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D5IbheeFdQ

Part 3 dart construction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzDQmz9mqtc

Fletching without glue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq0P085Unpw

And making an atlatl Part 1 and 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTatpBIdTmQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD8z38Hzq8M

Here is our groups website, Wyoming Atlatl and Social Club. There is nothing quite like seeing a large group of kids (or adults) hurling darts at a large target. See the little Eric page for an example.

www.wyasc.com

[scrapcan]

here is a page for atlatl plans from around the world for anyone interested.

http://www.thudscave.com/npaa/designs/

[waksupi]

Thanks for the link! I was going to make another one this winter. Just what I need, more ideas!

[gzig5]

oneokie,

I would try persimmon also if I could get it. know anyone with some to pass along, trade, sell ??

Old wood golf club heads are typically persimmon. If they are big enough to get your material out of, the clubs are cheap at garage sales.

[scrapcan]

gzig5,

man I had no idea. That will be a potential source. Then one will have to reshape the little beast. great idea, it will let me do what I have long wanted to do to a golf club!

Rick,

you are welcome, glad to help another out with more projects!

[gzig5]

gzig5,

man I had no idea. That will be a potential source. Then one will have to reshape the little beast. great idea, it will let me do what I have long wanted to do to a golf club!

Rick,

you are welcome, glad to help another out with more projects!

My pleasure. Now that you mention it, I could get some sadistic satisfaction from hacking up old clubs to please the golfing gods. Maybe it will help my handicap...

[Old Goat Keeper]

Try hackberry for the tips. That stuff get awfull hard when it is dried out.

T-o-m

[357maximum]

Manley


Apple and pear wood will do what you seek. I make arrow blunts out of a giant pear tree I cut down years ago and I can aim my 65lb hickory mollegabet bow directly at my old white oak shed then release .......and the blunts just bounce off propelling the arrow directly in reverse without harm to the blunt.


If you want some assorted blocks of seasoned pear wood for your dartpoints just PM me your address and I will send you some gratis. I have some smaller chunks of osage I can toss in the box also.


As far as your darts themselves....I have been making really great arrows out of Lowe's bamboo plant stakes and the stakes are available in 6foot lengths......something to ponder is all. :lol:

I wish we had cane around here, but we do not.

Michael

[scrapcan]

357max,

I made an atlatl out of a small pear that we planted and it winter killed. It is great stuff but our little trees are well little and no spare branches!

We have depleted the supply of plant stakes at Lowes, HD, the local nursery here and in a few towns around us! The group had a huge number of kids go through the Wyoming game and Fish expo about a month ago and it takes large numbers of darts to make it through the event. lots of field points and jiffy fletching made out of colored duct tape.

I may send you a pm regarding some wood. I have an offer coming in already for some osage.

Thank you and don't be alarmed if I come begging and pleading.

[357maximum]

You cannot beg and plead when an offer has already been made it would be redundant redundant :Fire:

While cutting rose/dogwood shoot shafts last winter I notice quite a few multiflora rose shoots that would make great atlatl darts if one was willing to wade in with a pair of pruners to where the sun don't git and they have to grow straight up to survive. Wild multiflora makes some super tough arrows if one drys it slow and is patient to strip the bark. If you strip them immediately they kinda blow up upon drying. Just another possible option for you in the dart department. I could cut some this winter but the shipping would likely be prohibitively expensive on something that length. It is also considered a non-native nuisance by the fish cops so I do not know how that would figure in.

good luck,
Michael

[waksupi]

I had a brain storm today. I am going to try footing together some of the shorter western cattail shafts we get here, and also footing together some of my raw cedar shafts for longer atlatl shafts.

[357maximum]

So how did the brainstorm pan out Ric ? Did you use a scarf joint?

[waksupi]

So how did the brainstorm pan out Ric ? Did you use a scarf joint?


Looking for my roundtoit....

[greywuuf]

Looking for my roundtoit....

FINALLY! A way for me to contribute. The Moose here regularly leave me Piles of Roundtoit's. I would be more than happy to forward some on :)

[waksupi]

FINALLY! A way for me to contribute. The Moose here regularly leave me Piles of Roundtoit's. I would be more than happy to forward some on :)

Won't work. Too oblong! :violin:

[Mk42gunner]

Going with my experience driving nails and fence staples into old hedge posts; I think I would split the points out of seasoned wood, then shape with sandpaper. Part of an old fence post would be the easiest way to get seasoned wood.

Robert

[scrapcan]

357,

Well I guess once the offer is declined, it may no longer be on offer. Therefore I would have to come back to see if it were still an offer. Having declined the offer, one might have to work a bit to get the offer back on the table.

So no redundancy as I do not assume it is still a vaild offer once declined.

[357maximum]

Ahh I see your view now. Let's put it this way then.....whenever you want some let me know as I have oodles of it and my wife is not always happy with my oodle piles. :bigsmyl2:

[waksupi]

I hold you guys responsible for this. I had a broken osage bow in the shop I stumbled across today, so made a better atlatl than I had. Also made a counter balance stone for it, from soap stone DeanD gave me this summer. I have two scarf joint darts setting up here, made from cedar arrow shafts, that I highly suspect will be too soft of a spline to work well. I'll post pics of the atlatl. Still looking for my roundtoit.
You guys quit bringing stuff like this up. I got stuff I gotta do! Good thing I have to wait a couple days for some parts, although Buckshot is probably now wondering why I'm not working on HIS project while waiting! I get to pick my weekend days!

Got the roundtoit!

[scrapcan]

Ric,

Very nice. Our group threw this weekend. I got a wild hair while doing a 3d hunt round and yanked up a large weed stalk about 4 feet long. In the style of Ray Madden, I looked down and asked myself what Ray would do. He has been throwing unfletched, unpointed, darts with the Australian Woomera. I tried his toys In Central City Colorado last summer. He is amazingly accurate and nonchalant about the throwing, What a great guy.

Anywho he would have just flung it so that is what I did. That little weed threw really well. un-straightened, no fletching, and just a quick cleanup and rough point with the pocket knife. If I straighten it a bit I might actually get it to throw more accurately. I will try to put a picture up.

And as far as Buckshots project, Anyone who collects asperly aimless stuff has a bit of time to spare for pondering!

[Cariboo]

That looks great waksupi

[Wayne Smith]

As to hard wood, the hardest native dry wood I know is black locust. Dry fencepost wood, staples bounce off, nails bend, and axes dull. Great fence post material if you get the fence up before it dries completely. Doesn't rot, either.

[357maximum]

Ric

That is one sweet bannerstone. :bigsmyl2: I have a couple of self bow-splosions I could send ya if you get bored. [smilie=l:

[waksupi]

Ric

That is one sweet bannerstone. :bigsmyl2: I have a couple of self bow-splosions I could send ya if you get bored. [smilie=l:

I don't need any more, as I just happen to think there are also a couple purple heart bows, at least another osage, a juniper, and a couple ash bows that have met untimely ends over the years, hidden back in the same corner of the shop.

[hunter2]

A few years back I had some persimmon, osage orange,pecan,walnut,honey locust-it splits too easy, and elm cut in slabs for gun stocks. Have some 2 x 6 persimmon and 2.5" slabs ( a gun stock could be made to shoot around corners ) that did not exactly dry straight. How much do you want? cheap....If I could get back what it cost to saw it up, or trade for 300 whisper NOE bullets.

[Wayne Smith]

Hunter, if you want to get rid of that persimmon let me know. I can cut it up into smaller pieces and use it on the lathe. It sure does turn nice. I never tried turning Osage Orange.

[bowfin]

waksupi, you'll shoot your eye out!

Quit with all of the potentially dangerous stuff and go back to...uhmm,...casting lead...

[Dean D.]

That's NOT an Atlatl, it's obviously... [smilie=1: a Loob Groove Installation Tool! :Bright idea: