Questions about Unique in 38 special

[rbstern]

I like Clays in light 38 special for cleanliness, but I happened upon about 4 lbs of Unique in an estate sale, so I figured I would try it.

Used the Unique in some modest 9mm FMJ loads and it worked very consistently with pleasing accuracy.

Used it in a batch of light 38 specials (108 grain WW Lee SWC), and I got some inconsistent reports and recoil. Load was 4.7 grains, Magtech regular pistol primer. These were loaded via my Lee Loadmaster, with a .61 cavity Auto Disk. Weighed half a dozen throws to check accuracy, didn't detect any problems.

Is Unique case position sensitive? Does it need higher pressure to get good ignition? I crimp these bullets pretty firmly, but it's still a light bullet. I used to run into a similar problem with light Clays loads behind light bullets until I found a load with enough pressure to work consistently.

Comments appreciated.

[versifier]

I have been using Unique in .38spec and .357mag since the 70's. I have never found it to be position sensitive in those cases. Most of what I shoot are 150-158 gr boolits in various revolvers and Contender and I have found that I do get better accuracy generally with hotter loads in those cases, and it's not as dirty. (I go to BEYE for light wadcutter and plinking loads.) I also use it and like it in .45ACP and 9mm, where it doesn't seem to make much difference as long as there's enough to cycle the actions, and for .30cal rifle loads. I have not noticed it to be position sensitive in the rifle loads, but I always raise the muzzle before I shoot any round where the powder charge takes up less than 50% of the case's volume, so maybe it is and I just haven't seen it because of my shooting technique. Although fairly accurate, it is a dirty powder in rifle cases. Lighter charges of it don't always generate enough pressure to fully obturate the cases in the chamber, so I am often left with some trash in the barrel and sooty case necks and bodies.

[Uncle R.]

Unique is a great pistol powder for full-power loads in .38 special but I think you're going to be disappointed with it in light target loads. It needs more pressure for consistent and clean burning. I'd suggest you use a faster powder for your light loads. Try the Unique at full-power "service load" levels and I think you'll be pleased with it.

[9.3X62AL]

Ditto to Uncle R's comments. It is one very versatile powder, for darn sure.

[corvette8n]

Are you sure Unique is in the canister, I have read about some people buying canisters at gun shows that didn't have the correct powder in them.

[Beau Cassidy]

5.5 grains of Unique behing a 158 Gr. lead bullet in a K-frame is good medicine.

[MtGun44]

Uncle R. is correct. You need a heavy bullet and/or a heavy crimp to
make Unique work the most consistently. I love it and use it a lot,
but heavy bullet pull, bullet wt or heavy crimp make it work much
more consistently.

For instance, 6.8 Unique in a .357 mag with a 173 Keith works extremely
well in my 586 7 shooter.

Bill

[hunter64]

Yup, heavy bullet and heavy crimp. I love Unique and it is just about all I run in all my Pistols and revolvers. For light .38spl for the kids I run trailboss and I have had great groups with it. I load 8grn of Unique behind a 240 Keith bullet in my .44's and it is a great load for the bigger kids to learn there way up to the more stout loads. I used to run W231 in my .45acp but it is really dirty and I switched to Unique and about the same accuracy without the huge clean up.

[KCSO]

If you are shooting Unique you need to check you case leangth pretty close. If you have a shorter case you will not get as much crimp and crimp variations will really throw Unique Loads off.

[Char-Gar]

For decades the powders of choice the 38 Special were.

Bullseye for target loads
Unique for full power loads

Unique is one of the oldest, if not the oldest smokless powders on the market. It is also probably the single most useful powder in the world.

4.5/Unique over a 150 to 160 grain cast bullet is a good all purpose load that is easy on the handgun.

5.3/ Unique over the same bullet is about tops for standard pressure. Above that you are into +P pressures.

[bradh]

For light loads the kids like to shoot, I use 3.8 grains of W231 behind a 158 grain
SWC.

[jballs918]

this might be bad for me i loaded about a 1000 38spl rounds with only 4.0, i followed the bokk and this was about mid range. i used a 158 grain bullet with a crimp what you guys think

[wills]

For decades the powders of choice the 38 Special were.

Bullseye for target loads
Unique for full power loads

Unique is one of the oldest, if not the oldest smokless powders on the market. It is also probably the single most useful powder in the world.

4.5/Unique over a 150 to 160 grain cast bullet is a good all purpose load that is easy on the handgun.

5.3/ Unique over the same bullet is about tops for standard pressure. Above that you are into +P pressures.

Do you have a load for speer 147 gr hollowbase wadcutter?

[rbstern]

Thanks, all. I'll try the Unique with a heavy SWC, and use Clays for my light loads.

[Treeman]

Wills, Try 3.2-3.3 behind a 148 HBWC. -Some books will go higher but pushing Hollowbase WCs isn't recommended -It is possible to shoot the ends out of them and leave the skirt in the bore.

I had better clarify-that is 3.2-3.3gr of UNIQUE. Clays maxs out with about 2.5gr behind a 148HBWC.

[wills]

Thanks, that is exactly what I was concerned about.

[tomf52]

rbstern - I have loaded the same round as you describe but with CCI 500 primers and have had consistent results although a little too much residue in the barrel. It's better for slightly hotter loads.

jballs918 - I have also done that load with no problems.

[shooting on a shoestring]

My revolver shooting involves .38, .357 and .45 Colt. My standard drill working up loads is to fire over my chronograph alternating muzzle up, muzzle down for 6 shots. In a nut shell, Bullseye and 700X do not show measureable position sensitivity nor do full case or compressed loads of H4227. Everything else I've tried does show measureable differences in average velocity between muzzle up and muzzle down. I don't have my records with me now as I'm on the road, but I believe Unique is in the ball park of 50 fps differences. I remember the ball powders show the most differences and I recall HS6 to be my least favorite. I also remember finding that powder charge weight variations are always swamped out by powder position, at least in the 3 revolver calibers I shoot.

I think your dissappointment with Unique lies in a small charge of powder rattling around in the large space under the light short bullet. I think you should cut down on the empty case space, increase the powder charge and increase the bullet weight if you want good combustion with your Unique.

[felix]

I agree with SOAS in that Unique is quite sensitive, and agree also that 700X and BE are more stable by a long shot. Some loads with Unique, however, tend to ignore this silly rule. We are talking about 38 special in particular here. The lyman 358477, 150 grainer Keith, shoots without peer at 5.0 grains. If I had a contract to load a bunch, this would be the load of my choice. That said, there are other loads just as good, but would require more powder to make a P+ load. ... felix

[curioushooter]

This is an interesting thread that deserves some Resurrection:

Unique is an old powder but now on Alliant's website it says "now cleaner burning." I'd imagine something was changed...
The max load with a Speer gold dot HP, 135 grains, is only 5.2 grains. Yet I read of 5.5 grain loads with 158 LSWCs.
And my Hornady manual lists 5.8 grains with a 140 xtp and 5.3 grains with a swaged lead bullet. This is the 10th edition, so a new manual using modern components, new powder, and modern pressure testing equipment.

What's up with this?

Unique seems to be an ideal powder for full power 38 and 38+p without being overly slow and wasteful. But the data varies by more than 10% as to max. And 38 is a cartridge so low in pressure you basically can't look for pressure signs.

[WheelgunConvert]

For light loads the kids like to shoot, I use 3.8 grains of W231 behind a 158 grain
SWC.
Hodgdon data has 3.1-3.7 for 158 swc in 38 spl. Ok for a 357 arm. Not Ok for a model 10.