The Mannlich Schoenauer Rifles in 30-06...

[PrimitiveBeasty]

Or .270. How good are they?

I've read several gleaming reports about the Mannlicher Schoenauer Rifles, but they all seem to be referring to the military rifles or carbines in 6.5mm. I was looking to get in on the action, but all I can find that's in my price range are the newer, longer actions for '06 length cartridges. Could somebody shed some light please?

Many thanks! :-D

[NuJudge]

You are seeing Steyr-Mannlicher rifles. I believe they are still in production, in a variety of calibers, and a variety of stock designs. These have a box magazine. CDNN seems to have them on closeout regularly.

The articles you are reading are about Mannlicher-Schoenaur rifles. Production of them stopped by 1970, after a fire IIRC. These have a rotary magazine, which works well but is very complicated. They were known for being stocked all the way to the muzzle, but also came half-stocked. They came in a variety of calibers, the most talked about was the 6.5x54. I've shot a pile of deer with one and 156gr Norma softpoints, and they are remarkably effective. There is a lot of talk about elephant hunters using long 160gr FMJ 6.5x55 bullets on elephants, but I'm not in a hurry to try that.

[gnoahhh]

I've had a few M-S's in my life, including a M1950 half-stock in .30/06. Sweetest rifles I ever owned. I should be tarred and feathered for letting them go. My favorite was a M1952 full stock in .257 Roberts.

[Baja_Traveler]

I've got my dad's M1903 carbine in 6.5x54. What a fantastic piece of art - the bolt slides like butter...

[Hardcast416taylor]

Friend of mine found a M-S M1903 Sporter in 6.5x54 hiding in the back of his cavernous gun safe that he didn`t know he had! It is a WW 2 trophy bring back, I believe, from another owner. It has a Griffin & Howe side scope mount and a Lyman Alaskan scope. I`ve offered him $100 for it, don`t know why he won`t accept my offer? The newest Blue Book on gun values puts this little sweetheart at $1K in it`s condition (about 90%).Robert

[PB234]

If you watch the prices on GunBroker $1000 is likely well below what it will gather. My guess (if it is really nice shape) is closer to $1500 to $2500 depending although it sounds like it has been messed with installing the scope.

If it has the cleaning rod remaining in the stock or a flip up peep sight or... all the better.

[PrimitiveBeasty]

You are seeing Steyr-Mannlicher rifles. I believe they are still in production, in a variety of calibers, and a variety of stock designs. These have a box magazine. CDNN seems to have them on closeout regularly.

The articles you are reading are about Mannlicher-Schoenaur rifles.

Yes, I was asking about the Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles produced in the later years of production. The rifles in my price range I was talking about were for Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles in 30-06 or .270, most of them produced in the 1950's. I simply wanted to know if those rifles, produced later and with a longer action, were up to the same quality that the original military ones (chambered in 6.5x54) were. All of the rifles I could find in 6.5x54 were over $1,000 (some by a lot), so I thought I would see about the cheaper, more recent rifles.

[9.3X62AL]

One site with an overview of the subject is run by the Mannlicher Collectors' Association. At the home page, click on "About Mannlichers". It will show a bar to click on--"Mannlicher Characteristics". Nice little summary on the subject.

I have prior time with a M-1903 in 6.5 x 54 M/S--a 1908 in 8 x 56 M/S--and still have a G98/40 "Mountain Carbine" in 8 x 57 JS. Ths last example does not use the spool-type magazine, and has the staggered/vertical 5-round box mag of the K-98 Mauser et al.

To rabid M/S collectors, a drilled receiver to accept a scope sight (Pachmayr, Griffin & Howe) detracts considerably from their value. If you don't mind the extra holes, decent deals can be had on the drilled & tapped M/S rifles. Examples in all-original trim will induce sticker shock in most cases.

How strong/durable are they? The later examples (50/52/56/61) should certainly be up to 1903-level 30-06 pressures (50K PSI, 150 grainers at 2740 FPS or so), assuming good condition and reasonable care. The spool magazines are absolute artwork in steel.

[TreeKiller]

I have a Steyr-Daimler-Puch AG Styer in 264 Win Mag made in 67. I stretched the action with factory ammo and the factory made a new bolt face to put it back in headspace. I haven’t shot it in years but am in on a group buy for the 6.5 mold. I will be trying it with cast.

[Harry O]

Not late models and not in 30-06 or .270, but here is an article I wrote on my two Mannlicher-Schoenauers. They are both in 9.5x57 MS (.375) caliber.

http://www.sixshootercommunity.com/harro/109-mannlicher-schoenauer-m-1910.html

I don't know about the newer ones, but the older ones earned their reputation. They are the smoothest rifles I have ever owned. They swing more like a fitted shotgun than a rifle. They are good.

[Ed in North Texas]

Another I wish. In 1965 I had an MCA (.30-06) on order at the post gun club, along with a Walther PPK, when I received my orders to RVN.

[Harry O]

The following a brief history of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer to the best of my knowledge:

To start out with, both the spelling Schoenauer and Schönauer are commonly used. The one without the “e” usually has an “umlaut” over the “o”, though. The original gun that we now recognize as the classic Mannlicher-Schoenauer (M-S) was created in 1900 for the Greek Military. It is now known as the 03/14. It had a rotary magazine and was chambered for the 6.5x54 M-S cartridge. The rear receiver ring was split (on top center) so that the bolt handle could pass through it. This was good and bad. The placement of the handle (between the rings) is considered part of the reason that the M-S bolt is so smooth. However, it is less strong than equivalent Mausers and early models were limited to about 45,000psi. In addition, the split rear ring makes it difficult to mount a scope. Many of the internal parts for the Greek gun interchange with the early commercial M-S’s. (Note that earlier Mannlichers, such as the 1895, have absolutely no parts in common with these guns. Neither does the Italian Mannlicher Carcano).

The rifle was restyled for commercial sale in 1903 in the same caliber. Standard barrel length was 17.7”. Cartridges and brass in that caliber are still available (but never on sale) and there is plenty of reloading data for it (IMR 4064 works well with all original M-S calibers). No cartridge size was stamped on the gun, only the model number (which was the year it was introduced – in this case, M1903). Sometimes, you can find a cartridge size stamped under the wood, especially if it was stocked and finished in England. The serial number was stamped on the receiver, barrel, and stock so you can check to see if they are original. The receiver is comparatively short and is what we would now call a .308 sized receiver.

In 1905, the same gun was chambered in 9x56 M-S caliber. The 9mm M-S guns do not have a very good reputation. Many of the barrels were undersized (smaller than current 9mm’s). You MUST slug the barrel if you have one of these. In 1908, the gun was chambered in 8x56 M-S. They have a little better reputation. Neither cartridges nor brass for either of them have been made for some time. Ken Waters wrote an article on each of them. Note that both the 8mm and 9mm M-S cartridges are NOT the same size as the 8mm and 9mm Mauser calibers, nor should Mauser loading data be used. Standard barrel length was 19.7”, but a number were made as rifles with a 23.6” barrel.

In 1910, the gun was chambered 9.5x57 M-S (also known as .375 Rimless Nitro Express x 2-1/4”), which is the one I own. This cartridge matches the base of 30-06 sized brass and it is easy to reform from a number of easily available (and inexpensive) cartridges. I use .35 Whelen brass. In a 6-1/2 pound gun, though, it kicks something fierce.

The commercial guns were produced with single and double-set triggers; with full length and shorter stocks; and, in both fixed and take-down models. Think of them as “semi-custom” rifles. Aftermarket sights were often added, and there were MANY styles and types. Scopes are rare. Many actions were sold to other gunsmiths to be finished. I do not know if the early gun was factory produced in other calibers or if the ones that have been found were converted by later gunsmiths. A chamber cast is recommended with these early guns.

This basic gun was produced up through 1923 (even during WWI). In 1924, the gun was redesigned with a longer receiver to take 30-06, .270 Win., 8x57 Mauser, and other long action cartridges. Most of the parts do NOT interchange with earlier guns (including stock, magazine, and the rear Lyman sight). This gun was produced until 1940. Between 1940 and 1950, none were produced. The factory was busy producing Mausers for Germany the first half of that time. Standard barrel length seems to have been 23.6”, although some were made with the shorter barrels. Slightly higher pressure cartridges were chambered in this model, but they were generally limited to about 50,000cup or 58,000psi.

In 1950, the same basic gun went back into production (the longer-action model) except for minor internal changes. One of them is the safety. The tang (shotgun type) safety is a weak point in the newer M-S and many have broken. Check it. There is a drawing (somewhere) of a small metal piece that a gunsmith can make to replace it. The bolt handle was also sloped backwards (streamlined).

The gun underwent more and more changes through the years to make it more palatable to the American market (at least, according to the importer, Stoeger). An exaggerated comb for the scope, holes in the receiver so a scope could be mounted without a trip to the gunsmith, a shorter stock (rather than the usual full length “Mannlicher” stock), a plastic forend cap, etc. were some of the changes. Many of the parts (such as the stock) will interchange between the post 1924 and post 1950 guns with little or no extra fitting. I am not sure of other (internal) parts, but most probably fit. Some time after 1950, an even longer “Magnum” length receiver was introduced for .375 H&H Magnum sized cartridges. They are extremely rare.

The gun went out of production in 1971. Parts are hard to find. There is reportedly a place in Germany that is going back into “custom” production of this gun. In other words, if you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it. I have not tracked it down.

[KCSO]

On the practical side the only thing they have going for them iis romance. The action is not as strong, handy adaptable or safe as a 98 Mauser. they need a side mount for a scope and the botl is clumsy to work...but boy are they neat! A buddy of mine has a M/S 30-06 made in 1954 and I try and talk hm out of it every time we get together.