High Wall disassembly?

[Tatume]

Hello Folks,

I'm having some trouble with the lockwork of a Winchester/Miroku 1885 High Wall. Can you point me to disassembly instructions? Thank you.

Take care, Tom

[calaloo]

Texasmac, who posts on this forun, literally wrote the book on these rifles. If he doesn't chime in I will find his contact info for you. I hear it takes three hands and your tongue to put one of these things back together. Good luck.

[calaloo]

Here is the web site for Texasmac.

http://www.texas-mac.com/

You are welcome.

[Nobade]

Why do you want to take it apart? It can be done, and Texasmac has good instructions in his book, but it is not intuitive, must be done in a different order than you would think, requires a slave pin to get the sear and sear spring back in, and really is something to be avoided unless absolutely required. Have a good padded vise to hold it in, and be in a very patient mood before you attack it.

[Tatume]

Why do you want to take it apart? It can be done, and Texasmac has good instructions in his book, but it is not intuitive, must be done in a different order than you would think, requires a slave pin to get the sear and sear spring back in, and really is something to be avoided unless absolutely required. Have a good padded vise to hold it in, and be in a very patient mood before you attack it.

This is my second Miroku 1885. The first, a 30-06, has never given a moment of trouble. This one had a failure of the trigger system. The hammer will not stay cocked, either when manually pulled back or when the action is operated. The distributor, Davidson's, has been very, very good about it. They took the rifle back and exchanged it for a new one. That one failed also. Davidson's very kindly replaced it also (and paid the shipping both ways, both times; like I said, very very good). The third one dropped the hammer yesterday, just once, and would not repeat the failure. However, if it did it once it will certainly do it again. Davidson's would probably exchange it again, but I feel bad asking them, and also I'm tired of removing my sights and replacing them. The front sight in particular is very tight in the dovetail, and I don't like drifting it out and back in.

So, my thought is to diagnose the problem and fix it myself, if I'm up to the task. But I'm not sure now that I want to take the action apart.

[Nobade]

Sounds like you may not have to completely take it apart. The sear spring on those rifles is fairly delicate, and only works if installed in the correct direction. (But can be assembled backward) and do exactly what you are describing. It is also very easy to bend it too much when installing it, and it won't have enough tension to make it return to its reset position.

If you remove the buttstock you can watch the operation of the sear and check to see if it is returning all the way. Cycle the lever and then push on the sear with a pencil or wooden stick and see if you can push it further. If you can, it is not going into battery and needs more spring tension. If this is the case, it's not too tough to remove and work on the spring. You will need a slave pin to put it back together, but it's easy to make one. You can slide the carrier that the sear and trigger pin into up enough to get the sear pin out without having to dissasemble anything else if you are careful. Note the pin that holds the carrier in is knurled on one end, so drive it out the right way. If you have a cup face punch use it so as to not flatten the end of the pin.

Hopefully this will shed some light on your trouble, I have seen a bunch of these rifles in the shop with this same problem and there isn't much else in them that will cause this behavior. Good luck with it and keep us posted!

[Cimarron Red]

Several years ago a friend brought me his Browning 1885 in .38-55. It had the same problem you're having. I took it down and found that an unburned powder granule had gotten onto the sear in such a way as to prevent it from engaging the hammer. He had been shooting a lot of ammo he had loaded with 5744, notorious for leaving unburned powder in the barrel. We got the gun going again, and he switched to a different powder -- 4227, as I recall.

Here's a thread on assembly/disassembly:

http://www.bpcr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1234

[gunplumber]

i had this same symptom and it was the adjustment screw was hard against the light setting which allowed the hammer to not catch and drop when the action was closed, i turned the screw 1/4 turn or so away from the stop and its worked fine for the last 300 rnds or so with no problems.
hope this might help

Dave

[calaloo]

Tatume
I may be way wrong here but I seem to recall that one of the tang sight screws, if too long, will bear against the sear and keep it from engaging properly. If I am remembering the right rifle this can be used to actually adjust the sear engagement. Try the rifle with the sight removed. It seems odd that three rifles have the same problem.

[Tatume]

Several years ago a friend brought me his Browning 1885 in .38-55. It had the same problem you're having. I took it down and found that an unburned powder granule had gotten onto the sear in such a way as to prevent it from engaging the hammer.

Is it possible to check this without disassembling the action?

Thanks, Tom

[Tatume]

Sounds like you may not have to completely take it apart. ... Good luck with it and keep us posted!

I'm going to follow your instructions, and will report my findings. Thank you.

Take care, Tom

[Nobade]

Tatume
I may be way wrong here but I seem to recall that one of the tang sight screws, if too long, will bear against the sear and keep it from engaging properly. If I am remembering the right rifle this can be used to actually adjust the sear engagement. Try the rifle with the sight removed. It seems odd that three rifles have the same problem.

Not the tang sight screw, but rather the buttstock attaching screw. And yes, you can shorten it and add another screw in the hole that will allow you to adjust sear engagement. It will also allow you to have accidental discharges if you adjust it too fine. If the rifle works with the buttstock removed and not when it is in place, a long screw is your culprit. Thanks Calaloo, I hadn't thought of that. Never seen one too long, but it could sure happen!

[Cimarron Red]

tatume.

In my case, I disassembled the action (I've done this many times on the four Miroku 1885 rifles I own). You may be able to do it by just removing the trigger/sear assembly.

[August]

Sounds like the trigger adjustment needs some attention.