What to Buy?

[OTThomas]

I did not really know where to put this but, I have a budget around $450.00, but I could probably get $500.00 together. Theres a nice gun show coming up next month And I need some insight on what would be the most accurate rifle I could buy. This could be a surplus rifle or a new production, and I all ready have a k31 [smilie=l:

[Ed in North Texas]

Depends on your intended use. The 6.5x55mm is an inherently accurate cartridge, suitable for both paper punching and hunting, and the Swede rifles are very well made. The US Krag, in .30-40, has a great reputation as a cast boolit shooter, and is also a cartridge capable of being used for both paper and hunting. My current favorite is the MAS 1936. It has aperture sights, and with my aging eyes that is an important consideration. May not mean a thing to you to use open sights. Brass is being made available for all three, though the 7.5x54mm is only available from Prvi Partizan.

Just my $0.02 USD.

Ed

[OTThomas]

I was thinking about the swedish as well. I would love to get a 30-40 krag but around my area they fetch about $600.00 and up depending on condition. I see the mas36 around quite a bit, but I've heard mixed reviews about accuracy. But I guess thats what you'll get with any mil surp rifle.

Thanks, Thomas

[OTThomas]

Oh and by the way I am looking for a rifle that I can shoot accurately at 200 yards at the range.

[higgins]

You should be able to get a good Swede for that money. Since practically all the parts are numbered, you'll know you're getting a matched gun. They normally have good bores, but look at a clean dry bore to make sure. Check the muzzle closely for damage. Don't get wrapped up in the bore condition on the stock disc-sellers like to make a big deal about it, but even if it's an original disc (replacements are available), remember that that's the condition the last time it was inspected by a Swedish armorer, not necessarily the present bore condition. You would be looking at a handloading proposition since Swedish surplus is expensive and not widely available. I don't own a K31 but they are nice, accurate rifles with good triggers. You can check for a matching bolt and receiver on them too. They shoot .308 diameter bullets so if you're already set up for .308 with jacketed or cast bullets you already have bullets on hand. 7.5x55 surplus is presently available but expensive. I think you would be happy with either a K31 or a Swede.

[OTThomas]

Thank you, is there anyone that has a Swedish mauser that can tell me about the accuracy out to 200 yards and also which variant of Swedish mauser is most accurate?

[zomby woof]

Thank you, is there anyone that has a Swedish mauser that can tell me about the accuracy out to 200 yards and also which variant of Swedish mauser is most accurate?

M96 I have one for cast and one for jacketed. They are extremely accurate with both. I shoot at 200.

[Larry Gibson]

If your talking about shooting cast bullets the 7.65 Argentine in the M91 or M1909 Mausers, the 8x57 in different M98s are readily available with excellent condition bores well within that price range. They are easier to work with using cast than the 6.5x55. However, the 6.5 can be interesting if not challenging. Perhaps a DHT'd M1903 '06 can be found with a decent bore in that price range also. Lot's of mosin Nagant M91s also with decent baores, many with not so decent bores also. Perhaps a decent SMLE could be found if they trip your trigger.

Larry Gibson

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well I think I have had everything mentioned so far over the past 35 years of reloading but my first thought today would be to get a Mosin Nagant 91/30 ex-sniper for about $150!!! Fun to cast for and probably the best bang for the buck and with Rock Solid scope mount you can scope it if it shoots for you with irons first!

[30calflash]

There's a fair selection to be had in that price range. It might help to narrow the field by caliber that you'd like or action type.

A lot of milsurp rifles were available a while back but the field has narrowed with Mosin Nagants, K31's and 8mm mausers advertised today.

The Swedes shoot very well. Another good shooter is a Finnish Mosin, The model 39's are currently available today. Well made, robust and accurate. Boxer primed brass and ammo around. I've a couple and they shoot combloc ammo well, cast very well at 100 yds. HTH.

[405]

May be out of your price range but who knows.... if sales have been soft you might find an 03-A3 with a dinged up stock, worn metal but excellent bore in the $500 range. Don't overlook that kind of mil surp for what you want to do. With the right cast bullet, like a 314299, they will do everything you want at 200 yds. Just a thought about another one to watch for.

[303Guy]

In my 'unbiased' opinion, a No.4 Lee Enfield would be just the ticket, specially with a good bore. (I've no idea how well a two-groove handle cast as I haven't taken mine out yet! So look for a five-groove).

[frnkeore]

In my area (Oregon) you can find sporterized Krags for + - $200. I would vote for a 98k Mauser, too.

Frank

[rollmyown]

In my 'unbiased' opinion, a No.4 Lee Enfield would be just the ticket, specially with a good bore. (I've no idea how well a two-groove handle cast as I haven't taken mine out yet! So look for a five-groove).


303Guy, I was wondering if you were going to chime in on the one, and what your unbiased opinion was going to be. :p

Another vote for a Lee Enfield here too. Either SMLE or No.4.
You cant go wrong.

[adrians]

i'm on the fence here, but to narrow it down a little a good mod 98 mauser or like mentioned above a good #4 mk1.
i have a selection of both and if it came to making a choice i simply couldn't...:evil::bigsmyl2::twisted:

[OTThomas]

Thank you for all the suggestions, just an after thought, can anyone tell me about arisakas, I have often wondered if that would be a good purchase, would it be able to hit the broad side of a barn at 200 yards?

[djoiner]

I can hit the broad side of a barn every shot with my arisaka, even at 200 yrds. Just having a little fun, hope you are ok with that. You might want to take a look at a Swiss M1911. Easily in your price range.

[leadman]

Look for a sporterized 1903a3. These are excellent shooters and if sporterized the price may be lower.

Also a Savage 110 bolt action in 30-06. Inexpensive guns normally and mine is the most accurate cast boolit shooter I have.

[b2riesel]

I currently shoot 2 times a week at 225 yards...shooting 8 inch diameter steel targets with iron sights. I wear prescription glasses and do about 3 outta 5 with the following rifles.

1966 Ishapore Enfield 2A1 .308
1950 something yugo Mauser M48 BO 8mm
1950 something yugo Mauser M48 8mm
1938 Tula Mosin-Nagant 91/30 7.62x54r
1942 Izhevsk Mosin-Nagant 91/30 7.62x54r
1943 Izhevsk Mosin-Nagant 91/30 7.62.54r

and a bunch of other stuff that is not in the same catagory accuracy wise like SKS, AK's and the like...and ofcouse I shoot AR's and Pistols.

But, out of the above mentioned. The M48 Mauser BO is the winner hands down in craftsmanship and accuracy. It almost has the AR-15 beat in the 'any dumbbutt can hit a target...just point and shoot' category.

The runner up is actually the 1943 Izhevsk 91/30. The craftsmanship shows that it was produced as quickly as they could...the Germans were kicking the door down and this was the last ditch rifle that helped drive the Germans away...the tooling is aweful...the action is quirky but still smooth....the accuracy is insane...and the 7.62x54r round is a donkey stomper. From a financial point...I'd buy 5 91/30's for $79 each and shoot the one that's the most accurate for you...and sell the others in 5 years when they are outrageously priced and you hear stories of 'I could buy them all day long for under $100 back a few years ago'.

No matter what...a sunny day...a good gun...and friends to brag to...is what makes life so great.

[Me not you]

The 7.7mm Arisakas can be real tack drivers. The action is one of the strongest and safest as well. Check this out:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?2405-Blowing-Up-a-T99-rcb-6-05

I haven't worked much cast with bores smaller than .30 cal, but the SMLEs, Moisin-Nagants all seem to excellent shooters if in decent shape.

[Hip's Ax]

I have a lot of different mil surp bolt rifles and the one I use for 200 yard mil surp bolt rifle matches is my No4Mk2 Enfield. I got it new in the wrap and tightened up the head space to commercial specs. I shoot Sierra MatchKings with IMR 4064 and get a little over 2 MOA prone from the sling. The rifle just works well, great for the rapid fire phase with its short bolt throw and easy stripper clip reloading and the sights are just great. Only wish it had a windage knob but holding off for the various positions seems easy. These rifles can be found for your price range, that is ones that were unwrapped and fired a little.

[OTThomas]

Is $480 dollars (plus tax) a good deal for a sporterized Remington P17?

[Hip's Ax]

Sounds high to me. I'll assume its an M1917 Remington in 30-06?

[Dutchman]

I'd suggest forgetting the Swede and instead hunt down a Czech Persian 98/29 in 8x57. Superior 98 action & utterly strong. Remington makes 8x57 brass so it's not an issue to find good brass cheap. 8x57 is a very capable cartridge and with cast can be very accurate.

Dutch

[higgins]

I too can cast a vote for the Finnish M39 Mosin. They are generally accurate with decent triggers, and a good stock design. I haven't shot handloads in mine since I still have cheap surplus on hand I bought several years ago. Be aware that most of them you will come across have been fired almost exclusively with corrosive combloc ammo, so be very critical of bore condition. I've seen a lot of nice ones (Enfields too) that look great on the outside and have ruined bores because they were not properly cleaned after firing corrosive ammo. 7.62x54R surplus is still available and more reasonably priced. To get educated on the vast array of MN rifles, go to 7.62x54R.net.

[MtGun44]

Notice he said "new or surplus".

Frankly, the most accurate rifle for $450-500 will be a Savage in something "normal"
like .308, 7mm-08, .270, .30-06, .280 or similar.

None of my milsurps will do what EVERY Savage will do. We are talking jacketed
bullets here, now.

I LOVE MY MILSURPS. But, they are old rifles, often with poor barrel bedding and action
bedding, worn bores, etc. Great history lessons, and perfectly adequate for many purposes.

But "most accurate". . . . . . . NOPE. Buy 10 Savage M110s and you will see consistent
accuracy from a moderately priced rifle. I am not a giant fan of their very average looks,
but they DO work!

If you mean "most accurate milsurp", then 1903 Springfield, Finn M28, Swiss K31, Swede
M95 are all really good shooters, and sometimes they may match what the Savage will do,
if you add a scope, fix the triggers (on most) and get a good barrel.

Bill

[shawnsmc]

Or you can get a mauser see how it shoots and if you are not satisfied you can sporterize it. Those Adams and Bennett barrels from Midway shoot amazingly well for such a cheap barrel. I did one in .220 Swift and I have put that gun in the low .2's at one hundred yards on numerous occasions.

I also would recommend one of the newer Savage bolt guns with the acutrigger. I got a 30-06 that came in a package with a cheap simmons scope and rings model 111 I think. After I bedded the action and worked on the trigger(non acutrigger) I can get half inch groups consistently with Federal Gold Medal ammo and the same maybe slightly better with handloads.

Shawn

[30calflash]

Notice he said "new or surplus".

Bill

Good point! I guess all of us milsurp addicts skipped the 'new or' part altogether!

+1 on a Savage if you go 'new'

[LEADLUBBER]

I have seen a lot of very-nice used condition Push-feed Winchester model 70's that will group 1 MOA or better out of the box, without being messed with. These push feed rifles sell for around $300-$350 here in Texas.

I have seen used 1997-1999 model 70 Classics with controlled round feed and BOSS system group .5 inches with factory loads out of the box. You can find these rifles for $450-$550 from an individual seller still if You take some time and buy it right...

In all honestly, messing with a Milsurp action seems like You would be moving backwards before even starting. I LOVE milsurp rifles for the novelty of shooting something with a legacy, but, using one for a precision shooting tool can be a challenge so difficult that You will quit shooting this type of scenario with this gun very quickly, and military guns have more finicky buyers than new-used guns many times. You truly must have the gun headspace checked, and look at the barrel with a bore inspection tool. Almost all military barrels, if used, will be pitted because of mercuric primers and moisture in the bore because of use of the rifles or improper maintenance.




Go to any mechanics tool box and see what he has in it. He probably won't have a set of old globemasters and a western auto-brand rachet; if on a budget even, he will have at least Craftsman professional tools and a few Snap-on or Mac tools thrown in.

Don't potentially disadvantage yourself by starting with an old worn tool.

go with a .30-06 or .308 to keep costs down for reloading with cast and jaxeted boolits....

My picks:

1. Winchester model 70 Classic with BOSS
2. Winchester model 70 push feed
3. Savage model 10/11/12


If going surplus, get a BRNO VZ24 Mauser or other controlled round feed mauser with an excellent bore in 8mm x 57 and convert it to some type of aperture sight mounted to the receiver


GOOD LUCK!

[MtGun44]

Of the three, if you are just looking at odds of getting a really accurate rifle, I'd bet that
your odds with the Savage are 90% or better, and with either Win about 50-50.

The Wins will win the beauty contest, hands down.

Bill

[shawnsmc]

Of the three, if you are just looking at odds of getting a really accurate rifle, I'd bet that
your odds with the Savage are 90% or better, and with either Win about 50-50.

The Wins will win the beauty contest, hands down.

Bill

I agree with that. The only winchester 70 I have is a 270 WSM and I cant get it to shoot under about 1 1/4 inch at 100 yards. I have played with it a lot, bedding the action and free floating the barrel then tried putting a pressure bend in it to no avail. As for the savage's I have played with 3 of them and I got all of them under 3/4 of an inch. And the 220 swift I mentioned above is built on a brno vz24 action.[smilie=l: