Does ceramic media wear out?

[oldracer]

I have been using ceramic media (small spheres) to clean my cases and in the past month the cases are not getting as shinny as they did 5 or 6 months ago? The only thing that has changed is the media has gotten older but is still white so I am not sure what is happening? They are clean but just not shinny. My process is:

- Decap cases and put in jug with dawn and water.
- When home, flush cases with water well, flush the jug.
- Add 10 cases or so to tumbler, add ceramic media to near the top, add a spot of dawn and water.
- Seal tumbler, run for about 4 hours.
- Flush the cases and media well with water.
- Dry the cases well and blow dry.

[Chicken Thief]

You are missing some acid (Citric).
BP fouling are caustic and given time it will "impregnate" the media.
To counteract that you need a little lime juice or the like (start with a teaspoon and work from there till you're happy with the result).

[TheDoctor]

I have not tried ceramic, but I throw some used dryer sheets in my corncob, and they remove a lot of the dirt and fouling.

[Stampede]

There could be a couple of things wrong here. I use daily different types of tumblers (vibrating and rotating), polishing machines and sonic cleaners at my factory.

1. Your (wet)media has lost it’s cleaning power, for wet-media tumbling I all ways make a new cleaning solution each and every time I clean cases. Especially with black powder used cases. Your ceramic spheres should be good when they still look “sharp” (as new). The edges of the ceramic can round-off (get smooth) and this will effect the cleaning. Therefore I use stainless steel spheres for cleaning and ceramic for polishing (soft metal) objects.

2. I’m not fond of acids (like ammonia or vinegar) when it comes to cleaning brass cases, I don’t even use it and there is no real need for it as well. Using an acid can and will work, but in most cases the acid loses it’s properties (vaporizes) within a couple of days or after a couple of cleaning sessions. Plus acid “can” damage the brass. Professional/industrial brass cleaning solutions/media “never” contain an acid! Acids can help you clean your brass faster but you need to rinse them properly after cleaning.

3. Black powder residue actually is a nasty stuff, it corrodes the brass. Therefor fast cleaning/rinsing of the brass after you shot it is recommended. Immediately after shooting the corrosive action is all ready taking place. This can cause the brass being stained before, during and after cleaning, the brass is clean but not shiny. Using an acid during cleaning can even react with black powder residue and set bad things in motion. Corrosive stains can’t be easily removed with ceramic spheres. Longer tumbling won’t help.

Peter (Stampede)

[Wayne Smith]

I use 3mm ceramic beads. No, they don't have edges! Never did. I have found I want to run the cases through walnut after they dry. They come out of the ceramic media very clean but dull. The walnut shines them up OK.

[Stampede]

This can mean your media doesn't polish but cleans.

You can try different types of cleaning solutions. The ceramic it self "hits" the surface and not clean it. So an other cleaning solution is the best option. The (every) ceramic is to "soft" by it self to do the job without a polishing/cleaning media. Otherwise Moly Coating like that from Lyman would not work with the ceramic.

Peter (Stampede)

[John Boy]

Does Ceramic Media Wear Out?
NO!

BP fouling are caustic and given time it will "impregnate" the media.
NO also - Sodium bicarbonate & sodium sulfide BP foul combination in a burnishing solution will bring the pH down to approximately a pH of 7.3 - Neutral

Since 2009, I have used the same 2mm triangle ceramic media and and they are just as pointed today as they were in 2009. And I clean approximately 2000 cases per year. The brass insides, outside and primer holes are clean with every batch. They are also polished brighter than new brass
* Rotary Tumblers from Harbor Freight
* Kramer Industries 2mm ceramic polishing media - about 10oz to a 3 lb drum
* Rio Grande Strat-O-Sheen, Burnishing Compound, 339-017/5 ... 3oz of powder concentrate to 1 gal of water

The key to clean brass is to rinse the media with hot tap water to remove the foul that settles in the media and use fresh burnishing solution. I have since stopped putting TSP in the solution because it only reduces the pH from 7.9 down to 7.6 or 7.5. I now put a squirt of DAWN into each batch that I clean

What I haven't tried, but thinking about it, to reduce the cleaning time is using distilled water instead of tap water with chlorine and fluorides when I mix the Strat-O-Sheen solution

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15417

[oldracer]

Thanks for the info everyone. I think I'll see if I can find some burnishing media locally here in the San Diego area and add that instead of the water/Dawn that I have been using. If that does not work out then I'll use a dash of citric acid to see if that helps the next time I shoot. I plan to continue using the small spheres at present as they were working well earlier.

I do de-cap and flush the cases with Dawn and water at the range so by the tme I get home they are usually free of any fowling or BP goop. They get rinsed good before going into the tumbler.

[Lead pot]

I still use the same ceramic angle cut stick media when it came out for case cleaning. The sharp edges are gone and the diameter is getting a little small on some but they still clan the cases brighter then new.

Give this a try once. Pree rinse your brass with water in a jug or coffee can first. Just cover the media with water before you put the brass in and add a tea spoon of lemi shine, the stuff your Wife puts in the dish washer and a squirt of Dawn dish soap.

[Chicken Thief]

Dang i must be lucky or dumb!


NO also - Sodium bicarbonate & sodium sulfide BP foul combination in a burnishing solution will bring the pH down to approximately a pH of 7.3 - Neutral
You listed 2 of @600 different residues when combining Carbon (C) , Sulphur (S), and Saltpeter (KNO3). (i studied chemestry at college;) )

Every time i have tossed a bunch of spent cases into some water and measured the PH then i get something like 8.5-9. My first mistake?

Theese converted 348 Winnies are from the last millenium ('95 i think) and so is the ceramic media. The cases have been wet tumbled with water, citric acid and some detergent something like 65-70 times, and the pics clearly show that they are falling apart? Must be my second mistake that they still are near prestine?

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/R0010632.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/R0010630.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/R0010631.jpg

The short version is:

74KNO3 + 30S + 16C6H2O (Charcoal) → 56CO2 + 14CO + 3CH4 + 2H2S + 4H2 + 35N2 + 19K2CO3 + 7K2SO4 + 2K2S + 8K2S2O3 + 2KSCN + (NH4)2CO3 + C + S +665kcal/g

[Red River Rick]

- Add 10 cases or so to tumbler, add ceramic media to near the top, add a spot of dawn and water.


Sounds like there's too much media in the drum.

Try reducing the amount of media that you put into your tumbler. There should be room for the media and brass to actually tumble.

I add enough water to just cover the media and a teaspoon of DAWN dishsoap. Seems like Dawn dish soap works best, compared to other brands.

RRR

[oldracer]

As RRR noted, I plan to reduce the amount of media next time since the last two times I increased it and that did not help. I did reduce the number of cases since they are 45-70 but that made no difference. Maybe about 3/4 full since the level is near the top now. I already use Dawn and have since I started shooting the black powder cartridges.

[John Boy]

And the Winner Is?
Media, Water, Citric Acid and Some Detergent
:groner:

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/R0010630.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/R0010631.jpg
PS, the media that your using is not even cleaning the insides of the cases. Why?

Media, Strato-O-Sheen and Dawn
:awesome:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Casting/IMGP1028.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Casting/IMGP1024.jpg

Chicken Thief, am impressed with your chemical calculation but .... Sodium bicarbonate at room temperature is very hard to calculate but a good approximation will be a pH value of around 8 as a solid or a thick viscous paste in distilled water. Dissolved in Strato-O-Sheen solution and add the sulfide of the foul ... the pH is what I said it is using a calibrated pH meter

[Chicken Thief]

Did'nt say my method was perfect!!!
I said that it worked pretty darn good for a no store bought special concuction!

The next time you shoot then please dip the calibrated PH meter in the case water before adding anything?

PS you conviently left out the amount of firiengs that your cases has gone through:wink:
And what type of media you use!

My SS media will be in this week and then i expect my cases to look like yours in one tumbling!

[Don McDowell]

I haven't been using the tumbler with the ceramic all that long, but what I found that works the best for me
No more than 1/3 of the tumbler full of media
Fill with water and your chosen soap ( simple green works well for me) until the media is just covered and maybe just a tad more.
No more than 100 45-70 cases.

Run it for about 1.5 hours rinse everything out, hang that batch of cases to dry and go on with the next batch using fresh water and soap.

[John Boy]

PS you conviently left out the amount of firiengs that your cases has gone through
And what type of media you use!
Chicken, the number of times a case has been fired has absolutely nothing to do with how clean the case is when it comes out of the tumbler each time... whether it has been fired once or 1000 times. If what your driving at is how dirty the cases were ... all my brass is rotary tumbler cleaned after each firing. If you head read the thread link on post #7, you would have seen a groody 45 Colt - before and after

But since you have an aversion to know, these case are from one of two 250 Starline 45-70 lots that I bought believe in 2008 or 2009 when I switched brands. One the average, I shoot 1000 - 2000 45-70 reloads a year plus another 500 or so reloads in other calibers. primarily when I go to a 1000 yd range a couple of times a year to visit my buddy, Homer, a 48" x 82" buffalo silhouette

Type of media? Start reading full threads instead of jumping into the middle. Again, if you had read Post #7 - you would have determined the type - vendor and how much goes in the barrel instead of having to ask

[Johnk454]

I bought some angle-cut ceramic media (from Sagebrush?) back in '06 or so. Still using it, but have bought cleaning solution since from BA.

My Starline 45-90 cases come out looking better than new, inside and out, IF I pay particular attention to the amount of added water. A little less than total coverage of the brass and media gives results that look like John Boy's pictures. Too much water and twice the normal time still won't produce similar results.

Also wash cases in soapy water to get rid of as much crud as possible before they go into the tumbler.

[John Boy]

...hang that batch of cases to dry and go on with the next batch using fresh water and soap.

Don, Carol's hair dryer and a towel ... the cases will be dry in 2 minutes!

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=7653.0

And for the good of the order ... using 2mm triangle media, one can clean brass from 22 to 50 caliber. I cleaned a batch of 220 Swift cases last week. Just click the cases together and the media drops outs. Or mouth up, pour tap water into a handful of cases, it will go gurgle -gurgle ... then turn mouth down, shake and the media drops out back into the rotary barrel

Using the 1/8th cylinder angle cut media one is precluded from cleaning small caliber cases

[longranger]

I had bought the ceramic media and the Thumlers Tumbler (B model) and always used the detergent from B/A.It does a wonderful job of cleaning the outside, sorta O.K. on the inside won't touch primer pockets.
I shoot lots of different cartridges and the ceramic just wont do smaller than .40 cal in any configuration,staright wall and certainly not B/N cartridges.I had looked and some different sizes of the ceramic and opted for S.S.
I jumped on the S.S media when I first heard of it,anyone want to buy some ceramic media, Lyman Turbo Vibratory cleaner with walnut/corn media ? no need for anything other than the S.S media.It will clean about any cartridge and the primer pockets. Lemi Shine and Dawn(blue)
nothing cleans a well and won't rust or wear out.I could have saved a small pile of money if S.S had been available or known to me.