.30-'06 Handi-Rifle?

[Marlin Junky]

Has anyone out there done any serious cast boolit shooting with a .30-'06 Handi-Rifle? NEF must use the same barrel blank they use for the .30-30, so the advantage would go to the more cast friendly chamber. I've only owned two '06's in my life and cast for only a Pre-64 M70, with less than stellar results.

MJ

[OBXPilgrim]

I've got a 30-06 Handi. I originally came as a 30-06, but now has 444, 223, & 50 cal ML barrels to keep it company. The 30-06 and 444 are great cast shooters. I was getting 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 50 yards with H4895 (Ben's load) & 311041 cast boolits & haven't really played with it that much since.

I've had so much more fun with the 444, that the 30-06 doesn't come out to 'play' very often.

[Ben]

OBXPilgrim,


Not a bad load , UUhhhh ?

Ben

[Marlin Junky]

I've got a 30-06 Handi. I originally came as a 30-06, but now has 444, 223, & 50 cal ML barrels to keep it company. The 30-06 and 444 are great cast shooters. I was getting 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 50 yards with H4895 (Ben's load) & 311041 cast boolits & haven't really played with it that much since.

I've had so much more fun with the 444, that the 30-06 doesn't come out to 'play' very often.

How much 4895?

MJ

[NickSS]

I have literally fired thousands of rounds of cast from several 30-06s over the years. My favorite load is a 165 gr cast lyman pointed bullet (I do not know the number but they do not make molds for it anymore) and 15 gr of Unique. I have a 4 cavity mold and have cast and used thousands of them. This load shoots about the same sized groups as do J word bullets in the same rifle. Mostly right around 1 inch give or take a quarter inch depending upon the rifle. I have never chronoed the load but guess its around 14 to 15 hundred fps.

[Marlin Junky]

I was hoping for a bit more info on '06 H-R loads that would create a bit more carnage down range on small to large varmints... perhaps a 30-30 barrel would be better.

Actually, I was also thinking about a 444 barrel in addition to a .30 cal barrel just because I'm having so much fun with my Marlin Outfitter. The Outfitter, with its shallow rifling, has been very instructive regarding what it takes to deliver accuracy with softer (and significantly heavier) boolits. I can normally drive tacks with the Outfitter at 75 yards with full throttle 300 grainers that test BHN 18; however, drop to BHN 13-14, up the boolit weight to 340+ and one needs to haul out the much slower powders in order to shoot nice groups at 50 yards. One also needs to throttle back at least a couple hundred feet per second. After I wring out the air-cooled boolit testing, I'm going to start heat treating with a nose anneal on the 345's, hopefully to get a bit more speed in order to extend the practical hunting range.

BTW, speaking about boolit softness (I don't mind if this thread wanders 'cause it ain't movin' very fast) for a quick check, after long term storage or when already loaded into ammo, can you guys kinda get a feeling for a boolits hardness by how it scratches with your thumbnail? It kind of looks like my thumbnail will create a scratch on a BHN 14 boolit but not a BHN 15 boolit. I'm not sure where the threshold is basically because my Lee Hardness tester isn't all that reliable anymore. Lately, when I create an alloy, I go by boolit weight cast from a familiar mold and separate the boolits into +/- .5 grain lots. Usually the boolits within their specific lots can run from BHN 11-12 a day or so after casting to as much as 14.5 several weeks after casting. Then again, I'm not sure how reliable my Lee hardness tester is anymore.

MJ

[Larry Gibson]

MJ

As I've mentioned before; it's the 10" twist in the '6 M70, the '06 Handi-rifle and perhaps the 30-30 handi-rifle that will cause the "less than stellar results." with cast bullets if you want to "create a bit more carnage down range ". If the 30-30 Handi-rifle barrel is a 12" twist then I'd get that one for what you want. Suggest again the $s might be better spent on a new 14" twist barrel for that M70 to give you the accuracy with cast bullets at the velocity you want to push them at.

Larry Gibson

[Marlin Junky]

Larry,

That's a darn good idea from a practical standpoint; however, we're talkin' about a collectable rifle here and way more money than a H-R barrel to boot. I'm really just looking for a 200 yard varmint destroyer and I can always learn how to shoot the slower boolits (between 1700 and 2000 fps) with a cheap laser range finder. I'm gonna get one of these H-R barrels fitted to my silly frame ('cause I like a challenge) but need to select one of the following: 25-06, 270, 280, 30-'06 or 30-30. The way I see it, the 25-'06 with it's 26" barrel, 10" twist and hopefully same groove depth as the .30's will probably work best. Why then am I leaning 270? There ain't enough hours in this day.

MJ

[Larry Gibson]

MJ

"Collectable"....probably why my M70s aren't "collectable", that way I've no qualms on changing them.........passed on several pre 64s for that very reason.

Well if 200 yards and those velocity are the criteria then any of those H-R barrels should be fun to play with. The 30-30 would probably be the easiest to work with but like you, I like a challenge. I'd be more inclined toward the .280 Rem though because there are more 7mm moulds currently available. That SAECO #281 145 gr FN'd GC'd looks pretty good. Though the #070 might allow a bit higher velocity if the nose is a good fit. Just my thoughts.....

Larry Gibson

[Marlin Junky]

That SAECO #281 145 gr FN'd GC'd looks pretty good. Though the #070 might allow a bit higher velocity if the nose is a good fit. Just my thoughts.....

Larry Gibson

Larry,

You know, I would think the opposite would be true since #281 has more groove diameter bearing surface than #070 and therefore able to withstand more torque. Oh no!... I detect another spinning boolit argument on the horizon! :bigsmyl2:

MJ

[dk17hmr]

I haven't shot much cast out of my NEF 30-06 yet but it is a fun little rifle. JT knocked it down to 16.75" and moved the scope mount forward to allow for a pistol scope.... everyone that shoots it loves it and for what it is it its plenty accurate.

[Marlin Junky]

So, how many grooves does an NEF '06 barrel have? Can anyone post bore/groove dimensions? What's the chamber like? Long throat, short throat, generous chamber dimensions?

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

...I'd be more inclined toward the .280 Rem though because there are more 7mm moulds currently available. That SAECO #281 145 gr FN'd GC'd looks pretty good.

Larry Gibson

Yes, compared to the other sub-30's but I added up the cost to start .280 ammo production (and there's only a couple currently available molds out there that cast under 160 grains) and I decided to stick with the 30-'06 burning as much 2400 or 4759 as the boolits will tolerate. If I can break 1900 fps with a 150 grain boolit using a 22" barrel and maintain < 1.5MOA out to 200 yards, that'll be just fine.

MJ

[OBXPilgrim]

Geez, I guess I've been missing out some, looks like I've overlooked this thread some - sorry about that.

I've used 30 grs of H4895 & 1 gr of dacron filler. After getting a few hits touching & then just opening it up a bit, I had no desire for barn-burners - I thought that was good enough for me. I chrono'd my load at 1800 fps out of my Handi.

The OAL is 3.100 for my handi which puts the entire lube groove below the crimp grrove exposed after seating - so, I guess it does have a fairly long throat. My Lyman 3rd ed cast boolit book has a recommended 2.968", which looks like it might be seating it "correctly" in the crimp groove.

Looks like my barrel is a 6 groove, with (after chasing down my notes) a .310" groove, and I don't think I got the bore measured. Chamber is a bit generous, I've got a few 30-06s including a Garand & access to another & I only "bump" the shoulder on all of them. I didn't need to change anything for the Handi.

I didn't check the twist, but the FAQ list at Greybeards shows it at 1:10" http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,26264.0.html

H&R seems to have a consistency for short throats in some of the big bores 45/70, 444, etc - I couldn't get a 310gr Lee 44 to chamber in the 444 unless pushed in past the crimp groove.

The 357 mag commonly has a long enough throat & chamber to accept .360 Dan Wessons. Cutting to 357 Max doesn't need alot to be cut.

If I could have found a 30-30, before I got this 30-06, I would have been just as happy. I just kind of like rimmed cases in a single shot.

[calkar]

I sure would agree, a 3/4 m.o.a. cast load would be FINE!

[Marlin Junky]

OBXPilgrim,

Thanks for the info. Hard to believe that .30 caliber H-R barrels are .310" in the grooves though.


If I could have found a 30-30, before I got this 30-06, I would have been just as happy. I just kind of like rimmed cases in a single shot.

Theoretically however, one should be able to do 1800 fps with an '06 at less pressure than a 30-30, naturally at the expense of more gun powder.

MJ

P.S...
I'd like for you to try my M70 load in your Handi-Rifle: 22 grains 4759 (no filler) with Lee 309-170 sized .311. Try it with aged WW metal and let me know how it works. The velocity should be around 1800 fps.

[JIMinPHX]

I fooled with a Handi in .280 cal for a while. That caliber is basically about a .30-06 necked down to 7mm. It was a bit of a shoulder wrecker. I ended up filling the plastic stock with lead shot to take the edge off the shoulder pain. When I did so, I found that it had a steel bar inside the stock, which I assume was there for support, due the the heavy recoil of that round. It's kind of a small gun for a big powerful cartridge if you load it up to full potential.

[Marlin Junky]

I fooled with a Handi in .280 cal for a while. That caliber is basically about a .30-06 necked down to 7mm. It was a bit of a shoulder wrecker. I ended up filling the plastic stock with lead shot to take the edge off the shoulder pain. When I did so, I found that it had a steel bar inside the stock, which I assume was there for support, due the the heavy recoil of that round. It's kind of a small gun for a big powerful cartridge if you load it up to full potential.

Yeah but, how did it shoot with 100 to 150 grain boolits? Fast and furious? :bigsmyl2:

MJ

[JIMinPHX]

Actually, I have yet to get good accuracy from that barrel. The bore is kind of rough with tool marks. In fact, it's about the worst bore that I've ever seen on a Handi.

Fast - I can get that from it. Furious - it felt pretty furious. But accurate - not yet.

[Marlin Junky]

That doesn't sound very good. Perhaps a CVA APEX would be a better purchase.

MJ