Firelapping taking forever..... Ruger stainless!

[subsonic]

Up to 102 rds with 280 grit and there were 18 of 320 when I thought I was "close", but wasn't. So 120rds in and I still have a noticeable frame restriction.

Is there any trick to cutting faster? I thought the 280 would get it done, but here I am.[smilie=1:

[Catshooter]

I have read that two hundred to two fifty is normal for stainless Rugers. Sorry. :)

Good luck.


Cat

[MtGun44]

Hard, strong and wear resistant steel used in those guns. Won't wear out fast, but won't
cut fast, either. Not a bad thing.

Bill

[subsonic]

What about more coarse grit?

I'm going to have to stop and cast more boolits!

[tek4260]

I learned about Ruger stainless when I cut down my Redhawk. Never again. And to add insult to injury, I ruined my 11 deg FC reamer on the dang thing.

[44man]

They ARE tough and My old SBH has over 62,000 heavy loads through it with zero wear.
It is time to quit and doing the feel thing. Just shoot and see what the gun does.
Strange thing to hear from a guy that rejects over 1" at 50 yards I guess but I don't get too concerned as long as the guns shoot.
Relax subsonic, you could be opening the throats with all of that power lapping and making things worse. You would be better off hand lapping just the tight spot.

[cbrick]

Relax subsonic, you could be opening the throats with all of that power lapping and making things worse. You would be better off hand lapping just the tight spot.

Wise advise, especially with the 280 grit your using. Re-think your game plan and slug the throats to see if they are getting larger and/or out of round.

Rick

[subsonic]

It is time to quit and doing the feel thing.

What do you mean? I assume that's a typo.:veryconfu

[subsonic]

I'll check the throats, but I don't expect to find much. That's only 20 lap loads per chamber that are made of the same steel as the barrel that's super slow to cut. 122 of LBT compound didn't effect my 686.

[thegreatdane]

It's interesting to hear how tough those ruger stainless revolvers are, as mine is in the repair shop with a cracked forcing cone, rounded cylinder rotational gear (whatever you call that), and general overhaul. Hmm..

Good luck with your fire lapping. Have you noticed any improvement thus far?

[44man]

What do you mean? I assume that's a typo.:veryconfu
No, not really. Time to shoot and see if it is OK.

[44man]

It's interesting to hear how tough those ruger stainless revolvers are, as mine is in the repair shop with a cracked forcing cone, rounded cylinder rotational gear (whatever you call that), and general overhaul. Hmm..

Good luck with your fire lapping. Have you noticed any improvement thus far?
I don't know what causes a forcing cone to crack but the ratchet always needs lube so it doesn't wear. The pin and cylinder front also. I use STP on all of my guns.
Dry guns wear out!

[Multigunner]

Try lead lapping the constricted area.

[cbrick]

I don't know what causes a forcing cone to crack but the ratchet always needs lube so it doesn't wear. The pin and cylinder front also. I use STP on all of my guns.

Dry guns wear out!

That's one of those things ya just assume everyone does but I guess probably not. Through the years I've used many things, of late I've been using engine assembly lube, doesn't seem to dry out if it sits in the safe a long while as some lubes tend to do.

The ratchet & front bearing surface and the base pin are all lubed every time I take a revolver out. Kinda like your bolt gun, would you shoot that without lube on the bearing surfaces of the lugs?

Rick

[btroj]

I know lots of people who do just that Rick. I bet most shooters have never lubed the lugs on their bolth gun.

Good thing they don't shoot it much, Huh?

[cbrick]

Good thing they don't shoot it much, Huh?

Good thing they don't shoot my guns, there would be a heck of fight.

Rick

[btroj]

I hear you. I keep mine better lubed now than I dis in the past. I learned soooooo much about proper maintenance when I was shooting NRA high-power. It is amazing how the shooting sports bring out the best in firearm upkeep.

[Catshooter]

Stainless is tough stuff. I fired lapped my FNP 45 (stainless barrel) today. The bore just wasn't as pretty as I liked and it would lead slightly with loads that shouldn't. Odd leading, too.

So thirty rounds polished it up pretty well, and it went from .4508 to .4509. One ten-thousanth!


Cat

[PacMan]

Not sure how hard of a bullet you are using but using water droped WW will speed up the process.
If you need to size cast up about 20 right quick then size and then coat your bullets before they get to hard.Then let sit 2 days and then give it a try. After you get the restriction out shoot about a dozen more softer bullets to clean it up a little and smooth it out some.
I laped out two stainless Rugers with about 50 shots using the harder bullets.

[subsonic]

I am using ACWW at 11bnh on my LBT tester. Veral warns to use no harder than 14bnh. His instructions say that harder boolits will "spring" back after going through a constriction and not produce a uniform tapered bore. Beartooth's manual says 10-14bnh.

My throats are still snug on my .453 minus pin gauge like when I started and I can see no light aroun them to indicate an out of round shape.

[subsonic]

It's interesting to hear how tough those ruger stainless revolvers are, as mine is in the repair shop with a cracked forcing cone, rounded cylinder rotational gear (whatever you call that), and general overhaul. Hmm..

Good luck with your fire lapping. Have you noticed any improvement thus far?

Sounds like yours was out of time to me.

[MT Gianni]

That's one of those things ya just assume everyone does but I guess probably not. Through the years I've used many things, of late I've been using engine assembly lube, doesn't seem to dry out if it sits in the safe a long while as some lubes tend to do.

The ratchet & front bearing surface and the base pin are all lubed every time I take a revolver out. Kinda like your bolt gun, would you shoot that without lube on the bearing surfaces of the lugs?

Rick

Rick If we are speaking the same language, engine assembly grease is a white lube?

[PacMan]

Yes you may get spring back but the main objective is to remove the constriction and then smooth the bore with the softer bullets as i stated.
Each to his own i just prefer doing it with 50 instead of a 150.

[cbrick]

Rick If we are speaking the same language, engine assembly grease is a white lube?

No, it's a black fairly thin Moly-Graphite extreme pressure grease from Sta-Lube. Comes in a plastic tube about 6 inches long with an applicator tip.

It's use is engine bearings and such during assembly so the engine doesn't start up dry.

From Sta-Lube web site:

Sta-Lube part number, SL3333 - Engine Assembly lube is a lithium 12 hydroxy stearate based grease which adheres to metal surfaces to prevent destructive metal to metal contact. Prevents friction, galling and wear, lubricating areas of rotation sliding contact, such as cylinders, crank shafts and cam shafts.

And I'll add . . . Revolver cylinders. :mrgreen:

Rick

[2 dogs]

Subsonic, you are on the right track. Getting that restriction OUT of stainless is a PITA!!!!

However, you need to stop, clean the sixgun, and see how it is shooting your chosen load. Your leading may be down considerably. HOWEVER, you should see a lube star on the muzzle!

You may still need to firelap, but your sixguns performance is your guage.

[subsonic]

Headed to the range this morning. I shot 30 320 grit yesterday and did the hand polishing thing with 320 that is recommended in the beartooth manual-100 strokes with a patch wrapped brush.

The bore looks nice, but is still tight at the frame and muzzle. At least now the frame is maybe looser than the muzzle.

I don't suggest a google image search of "lube star".

[subsonic]

Back from the range. It shoots about like it always has. 3-4" at 50yds with no leading. At least the bore LOOKS nice.

Maybe a light lube star after 44rds. No leading and still shiny.

[btroj]

Don't sweat a lack of a lube star. The lube star is so dependent on outside factors that it has little merit as an indicator of much beyond getting lube on the muzzle. I have many loads that shoot grate an don't lead that leave no lube star.
If it shoot groups that are acceptable to you the I would leave it alone.

[subsonic]

I can shoot better than 3"@50yds. I would like to see 2" from this gun at that range, or better.

[Char-Gar]

Sixguns have had some constrictions where the barrel screwed into the frame since way before Veral decided it was the kiss of death for accuracy. Matches were shot and trophys won with such pistols, and these scores are still good today.

Today, folks start shooting emery paste on bullets down their barrels just on the hope and theory that accuracy will improve. Most do not have inaccurate sixguns, nor can they shoot the sixgun to the pre-grit potential it had.

I have a number of sixguns that shoot better than I can hold even in my salad days. They all have constrictions to one degree or another. I see no purpose to jack with an otherwise good barrel to get it to shooting a little better than it does.

Now, If a fellow is a pistol bench rest shooter and dotes on shooting the smallest possible groups, just for the fun of it that is one thing. But if a fellow is going to stand on his hind legs and shoot a pistol held in his hands, they might rethink the whole notion of shoving grit down a barrel that can have unintended consequences.

[cbrick]

Hhmmm . . . That's tough to argue with Char except for one little detail. It never accured to me to fire lap a revolver for the sole purpose of better accuracy. I have only fire lapped one revolver and that was for the purpose of eliminating or at least reducing barrel leading starting at the barrel threads and spreading down the bore. And yes, it did help with the leading a great deal. Is it more accurate? Tough to say without scoping the revolver and shooting serious groups but it does lead considerably less.

Rick

[Char-Gar]

cbrick... I feel your pain, as I have had three sixguns that leaded like mad, no matter what I tried. They were all Smith and Wessons from the early 80's, a time when quality was very low. There were two Model 24s (44 Special) and one Model 17 (38 Special.)

I read somewhere how to take out the micro machine hickes and polish the bore. Here is how it went.

1. Load 200 rounds of full snort jacketed bullet loads. Bulk Remington bullets could be purchased pretty cheap in those days.
2. Fire those 200 round as fast and you can reload and shoot.
3. Wearing gloves (it is hot) flip over the cylinder and give the bore 100 back and forth strokes with a new brush and Shooters Choice. Discard brush as it will be done for.
5. Take the sixgun back home and catch it in a vise and using Semi-Chrome on a tight patch polish until you arms feel like they are about to fall off. You will need to change patches and Semi-Chrome from time to time.
6. Clean out all of the gook and take a peep down the barrel.

The barrel will look like a mirror and the constrictions will be as plain as a rat turd in the sugar bowl. Forget about them and go shooting.

The pistol will never lead again with any kind of decent load and be very easy to clean. I doubt the accuracy has increase, but it has no decreased, and there was no grit pushed down the barrel, to change the dimension of the cylinder throats, and barrel.

I just can't get the love affair doing with the 44 Special that many seem to have, so after a few years, I sold the 44s to folks, who were turning back flips to get them. I do have a good thing going with 44 Magnums. I still have the K-38 (Model 17) and it is so accurate it seems to have a magic spell cast on it.

I have since done this to several other sixguns. The ones I intended to keep forever. It is worth the time and effort for a pistol that has found it's perminate home.

I have no issues with the handgun bench rest shooter, or the guy with a problem handgun. I just scratch my head at the folks who do this, just because Veral said so, and others on the various Gun Boards chime in. My gut tells me several hundreds, if not thousands of sixguns are fire lapped for every one that truly needs assistance.

I guess it it none of my business, but I have always thought that some folks did things, just because others do it, without really considering the need or prudence of the act. Folks, in all areas of life, seem to follow guru types, without using their critical thinking skills to question the whole notion. They accept something as true, just because some self proclaimed expert says so in print. Folks get into all kinds of problems doing that, and IMHO way to many pistols get fire lapped for the same reasons.

I have been called an "iconclast" before, so this is a long time thing with me. Therefore consider the source and feel free to ignore all or any part thereof.

[9.3X62AL]

Charles--you say "iconoclasm" like it's a bad thing. :)

[btroj]

Char-Gar has a valid point. We can go way overboard worrying minute details.
Yes, we can measure a constriction. Key is- can we prove that it really matters?
I have lapped a few barrels to reduce leading but have never used much over 50 rounds. The guns I did were stainless Rugers and they no longer lead.

[Three44s]

MT Gianni,

I know and use a white motor assy. grease ........... mine is #105 from Lubriplate ..... good stuff!


I have Veral's book and Beartooth's as well. I read them .......... Beartooth's the easier to follow by far. But I have yet to resort to any firelapping.

Now, I am the first to admit that I have not really tackled all my guns for lead but with the one's that I do run cast in ........ polishing with an abrassive cleaner like JB or USP bore paste until the leading subsides and the use of a cleaner/lube called CorrosionX has been all that was needed.

I have not tested without the CorrosionX (merely using the abrassive cleaner). But I have stuck with that lube for a final run through since I observed the following:

On my stainless guns the exterior that's normally all sooted up after quite a bit of shooting remains MUCH cleaner and what fouling that does rest there wipes off with your finger with virtually no pressure.

Three 44s

[tek4260]

I still say that thinking/knowing a revolver is "right" helps the shooter become a better shot. I have done most all the "tricks" to my revolvers. Has it helped? I think so. I know that now when my group sucks, I look at myself and my technique. I don't think about it being the load, throats, constriction, lock time, ect. I simply work harder on my technique until the groups come back to what they should be.

[1bluehorse]

I've firelapped (controlled wear) several revolvers and a couple rifles and have had nothing but excellent results. I didn't do it because "Veral" said to, I did it because everything I read from several different "knowledgeable" people and sources recommended it. There was an accuracy increase in all (especially a Puma 45 colt rifle) and leading has become pretty much non-existant. And yes, you do use "soft" lead bullets and at BB gun speeds. If you feel you have a better method, good for you, but firelapping has worked well for me. ( just make sure to follow the instructions)