500 S&W 700 gr bullets?

[garethst]

anyone know or have some for sale? i've tried ballisticsupply and ranger rick but they dont sell it to canada. Anyone else have any ideas? thanks

[Whitworth]

I am pretty sure Ranger Rick no longer produces these. That said, I know someone who purchased one of the molds for the 700 grainer and produces them for sale. If you would like the link, I can provide it. That said, those 700 grain bullets are more of a novelty than anything else.

[garethst]

yes please post would like to shoot a few thanks

[Whitworth]

Here you go.....

http://www.lsstuff.com/llbb/

I had them make some 700s for me for testing purposes and they turned out nicely.

[44man]

They will most likely go through a target sideways. The just can't spin up so they are 10 yard shooters.
Guys forget revolvers have rifling for a reason.

[Whitworth]

They will most likely go through a target sideways. The just can't spin up so they are 10 yard shooters.
Guys forget revolvers have rifling for a reason.

Well, we'll see. They will probably fare better than the .405 grain .44s we tested, but I am not too optimistic.

[Porterhouse]

I have shot some of those. With the loads that go around 1,100~1,150fps out of 6.5", 1-18 twist, accuracy was good at 100yds but went wild at 200yds +. Ranger Rick had a picture of 100yds test and that showed around 3", I think.

[subsonic]

The John Ross special .500 has faster twist for shooting this crazy stuff.

[Whitworth]

I truly think the 700 grainers are beyond the point of diminishing returns.

[300winmag]

Might have better luck useing a 10 ga slug gun.

[LowPE]

I have the Ross special and have shot Miha's 700 grainers to 100 yards with no problem. Alhough, I like it a lot better penta pointed which weighs around 630.

They are great conversation starters!

[69daytona]

I have shot a lot of these 700gr and they shoot very good out of my 7" out to 100 and even better out of my PC 10.5" out to 200, also shoot very good out of my 500 rifle. Seems like everytime I take them hunting I never see anything worth shooting.
More than just a novelty just need to practice with them.
Ranger Rick has had great success with them on the bears in Alaska and says there is no tracking of anything shot with them.

[Whitworth]

So, everyone who is a proponent of the 700 grain bullets, I have to ask if you have tested them for penetration alongside any 500 grain or even a 440 grain bullets? I don't think you are really gaining anything but you are surely using a LOT more lead in the process. We recently tested some 405 grain .44 mag bullets of the "more is better" design and found that they didn't out penetrate a number of considerably lighter bullets. Not trying to be combative, just trying to figure out where the tipping point is.

[tek4260]

This isn't scientific by any means, but dad has some of the RR 700gr boolits loaded at max charge over H110. We went to a bridge to shoot a bit and they had just redone the bank with some of the grey rocks ranging in size from football size to 3x that big. The 500 didn't break a single rock in 15 shots. It did leave nice, big ol splatters of lead up to about 6" in diameter. My 475 loaded with the 400 Lee shattered every rock I shot. My 44 loaded with 300's would break most in half. The 500 is a 4", while my 475 and 44 are 4 5/8" barrels.

We haven't chrono'd any of the 700gr 500's, but I am sure the boolit is too heavy to get enough velocity to equal the 475, and maybe even the 44.

And of course dad was bidding on a 475 that night on gunbroker.

Quite a bit bigger than the 300gr 44 though!!


http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/101_0265.jpg

[parisite]

www.mattsbullets.com has the 700 grainers. He's a member here too but I forget his username. He sells more variety of bullets for the 500 than anybody in the USA.

[John Ross]

So, everyone who is a proponent of the 700 grain bullets, I have to ask if you have tested them for penetration alongside any 500 grain or even a 440 grain bullets? I don't think you are really gaining anything but you are surely using a LOT more lead in the process. We recently tested some 405 grain .44 mag bullets of the "more is better" design and found that they didn't out penetrate a number of considerably lighter bullets. Not trying to be combative, just trying to figure out where the tipping point is.

When I was doing my most intensive development work with the .500 and heavy bullets it was more to find out what was possible and not so much that I thought a 700+ grain bullet would be optimum in the .500 S&W.

That said, a 725 in the .500 makes a LOT more sense than a 405 in the .44 Magnum because unless you have a Dan Wesson .440 Supermag, the 405 will only fit in the .44's cylinder if you seat it so deeply that powder capacity is greatly reduced. The .500 has no such problem with its 2.300" long cylinder.

I haven't hunted for a long time and I no longer have the ability to shoot slaughterhouse steers to test bullet performance as I did when I was a teenager, so I don't have personal experience ON GAME with my .500 loads. However, my testing on non-game media lets me speak with some authority on issues of .500 bullet performance.

Nose shape greatly affects penetration. My Long Range designs from 400 to 650 grains will far outpenetrate my 93% meplat Sledgehammers of the same weight at the same velocity. The long range designs won't give as deadly a wound channel as those big flat points will. Where is the sweet spot? I'm not sure. Will a 510 grain Sledgehammer at 1710 outpenetrate a 725 at 1200, on game? I don't know. Will a 510 at 1200 outpenetrate a 725 at 900? Will either or both shoot through any North American animal at any angle, and exit? I don't know that either.

My SUSPICION, based on all that I've seen, is that the most effective bullet/load combination in the .500 for anything on this continent would be the 630 grain MiHec hollowpoint, cast from an alloy that is soft enough to not shatter and loaded to whatever velocity the shooter can comfortably tolerate.

If I go to Africa again to shoot some more elephant and buffalo, it will be with a long-nose 550 grain bullet with 80% meplat, loaded to about 1450 FPS.

Just one guy's musings...

[John Ross]

This isn't scientific by any means, but dad has some of the RR 700gr boolits loaded at max charge over H110. We went to a bridge to shoot a bit and they had just redone the bank with some of the grey rocks ranging in size from football size to 3x that big. The 500 didn't break a single rock in 15 shots. It did leave nice, big ol splatters of lead up to about 6" in diameter. My 475 loaded with the 400 Lee shattered every rock I shot. My 44 loaded with 300's would break most in half. The 500 is a 4", while my 475 and 44 are 4 5/8" barrels.



If I had to bet right or die, I'd bet the 700s out of that 3 1/8" barrel weren't going much over 900 FPS and may have been hitting sideways, while the 400 Lee was going over 1300 and the 300 grain .44 at least 1100 FPS.

Velocity does interesting things to rocks and steel. Bring a varmint rifle with you next time and try it on those rocks, especially if you've got some SS109 ammo for a fast-twist .223.

If your dad wants to make some gravel, have him load his .500 with 325 grain Speer bullets seated .200" in the case and crimped right into the jacket. PM me for a load that will go around 1700 FPS out of his snubby.

[Whitworth]

When I was doing my most intensive development work with the .500 and heavy bullets it was more to find out what was possible and not so much that I thought a 700+ grain bullet would be optimum in the .500 S&W.

That said, a 725 in the .500 makes a LOT more sense than a 405 in the .44 Magnum because unless you have a Dan Wesson .440 Supermag, the 405 will only fit in the .44's cylinder if you seat it so deeply that powder capacity is greatly reduced. The .500 has no such problem with its 2.300" long cylinder.

I haven't hunted for a long time and I no longer have the ability to shoot slaughterhouse steers to test bullet performance as I did when I was a teenager, so I don't have personal experience ON GAME with my .500 loads. However, my testing on non-game media lets me speak with some authority on issues of .500 bullet performance.

Nose shape greatly affects penetration. My Long Range designs from 400 to 650 grains will far outpenetrate my 93% meplat Sledgehammers of the same weight at the same velocity. The long range designs won't give as deadly a wound channel as those big flat points will. Where is the sweet spot? I'm not sure. Will a 510 grain Sledgehammer at 1710 outpenetrate a 725 at 1200, on game? I don't know. Will a 510 at 1200 outpenetrate a 725 at 900? Will either or both shoot through any North American animal at any angle, and exit? I don't know that either.

My SUSPICION, based on all that I've seen, is that the most effective bullet/load combination in the .500 for anything on this continent would be the 630 grain MiHec hollowpoint, cast from an alloy that is soft enough to not shatter and loaded to whatever velocity the shooter can comfortably tolerate.

If I go to Africa again to shoot some more elephant and buffalo, it will be with a long-nose 550 grain bullet with 80% meplat, loaded to about 1450 FPS.

Just one guy's musings...

John, thanks for the thoughtful response. The 405s we tested were in fact loaded long (second crimp groove) and shot from an SRH which has a long enough cylinder to accomodate that load. That said, we still weren't able to get much velocity out of that particular load which averaged 950 fps. IMO, the nose is everything. There seems to be a trend going heavier and heavier with bullets without taking other factors into consideration, like barrel twist rate. Will the long bullet stabilize? The .405s not only didn't stabilize in the test medium, but they didn't in flight either. I shoot 500 and 525s from my .500 Linebaugh at a whopping 1,100 fps and haven't found them lacking in terminal performance. The moose I shot in Maine a couple of months ago didn't appreciate it one bit!

John, PM sent.

[John Ross]

IMO, the nose is everything. There seems to be a trend going heavier and heavier with bullets without taking other factors into consideration, like barrel twist rate. Will the long bullet stabilize? The .405s not only didn't stabilize in the test medium, but they didn't in flight either. I shoot 500 and 525s from my .500 Linebaugh at a whopping 1,100 fps and haven't found them lacking in terminal performance. The moose I shot in Maine a couple of months ago didn't appreciate it one bit!


Agree with you completely about nose and twist rate issues. Since the 700+ grain bullets are now out there, I designed my 5" .500 with a twist that would stabilize them at less-than-max load levels. Caliber, bullet weight, and nose shape mean much more than velocity on big animals, as you and your moose well know...

[ColColt]

You guys are a lot more man than I'll ever be. It would take two, maybe three professional wrestlers to get me to shoot a .50 cal handgun with 700 gr bullets. :holysheep I'm just not that much into pain.

[Whitworth]

You guys are a lot more man than I'll ever be. It would take two, maybe three professional wrestlers to get me to shoot a .50 cal handgun with 700 gr bullets. :holysheep I'm just not that much into pain.

There's a very fine line between bravery and stupidity.......:bigsmyl2:

[John Ross]

You guys are a lot more man than I'll ever be. It would take two, maybe three professional wrestlers to get me to shoot a .50 cal handgun with 700 gr bullets. :holysheep I'm just not that much into pain.

When it comes to shooting at things that may decide to kill you, there is no such thing as too much gun.

There's a guy on the S&W Forum that shoots Ti/Scan J-frame .357s (with full loads) like I shoot .500s--THOUSANDS of rounds a year. HE'S the fellow you should be shaking your head about...

[Paulinski]

700gr Mountain Mould projectile out of 6.5" 500 -

27gr of Lil"Gun seated to 2.300"

Video (http://www.youtube.com/user/dragnaath?feature=mhee#p/a/u/0/50iso_qclsE)

Another time I shot a steel plate at 50 yards with 630gr Miha hollow point - it sent the plate / bracket it was hanging on flying.

Shooting the same plate with 7.62x39mm VZ58 only swung it back and forth.

[Porterhouse]

Well,
a water cooled WW, long nose, 74% mepleat, 525gr@1,500fps didn't come out of the skull of a 300lb black bear though. It killed her none the less...

[Whitworth]

Well,
a water cooled WW, long nose, 74% mepleat, 525gr@1,500fps didn't come out of the skull of a 300lb black bear though. It killed her none the less...

Have you considered that the bullet may have been driven too fast? As soon as the nose shape starts degrading, penetration falls off.

[Markbo]

My .500 S&W is the only handgun I have ever fired in my life (with some stout 500gr loads) that bruised my hand. I have found my upper limits. 5 shots with those heavy loads were enough for me. Even loaded slower - way slower - what would 700gr do that 500gr - or even 400gr for that matter - cannot?

The 400-405gr in .475 are the penetration leader insofar as the data I have found. I know you guys are all about experimentation and shooting big bores, but having found my upper limit, though admittedly in an S&W... I think in a Bisley shape it would not have been so harsh, what are your ideas for use with a bullet this heavy?

I am not picking... I really want to know. Heavy for caliber has been one of my guiding points since I started handloading, but this is ... up there! :smile:

[Porterhouse]

Whitworth,
Yes, I think it was too fast for that alloy. The recovered bullet was badly shattered. For what I do, at least, 400@1,300fps to 500gr@1,200fps are probably better.

[Whitworth]

I just think there is a point of diminishing returns. Years ago, Ross Seyfried tested a 412 grain .45 Colt bullet that was a disappointment with regards to penetration. We found out that 405 grain .44 bullet wasn't a really good idea either.

I think if the nose is right, you can get away with a lighter bullet -- now I'm not advocating light bullets for caliber, just not the super heavyweights.

Markbo, you are correct about the .475 Linebaugh. For years it beat all comers at the LInebaugh Seminars and it wasn't until the .500 Linebaugh was loaded with heavy bullets that it became a threat to the .475's crown. That said, we have found .510 525 grain WLNs at 1,100 or so fps to be the cat's meow, but a 525 is a far cry from 700 grains.

As far as velocity is concerned, a few years ago, a buddy of mine tested his (mine now) .50 Alaskan revolver loaded with CP 525 grain WLNs at a little under 1,600 fps, would penetrate roughly 50-inches. That exact same CP bullet, loaded in the .500 Linebaugh at a whopping 1,100 fps at the muzzle, went 50-inches as well. Cast bullets just work better when they maintain their integrity.

[garethst]

So does anyone sell these to canada , ive tried matts and ranger and they dont any one know.
thanks

[Markbo]

...50 Alaskan revolver loaded with CP 525 grain WLNs at a little under 1,600 fps, would penetrate roughly 50-inches. That exact same CP bullet, loaded in the .500 Linebaugh at a whopping 1,100 fps at the muzzle, went 50-inches as well....

And of course we are speaking strictly on penetration here. There are an awful lot of game animals in North America that 50 inches of penetration would be ... useless. Countless Bison have been shot with the .45-70 at relatively low velocity. I enjoy shooting and would get to shoot a lot more with the 525 @ 100 vs 1600fps.

Now I still have to find the right heavy for caliber .41, .44 and .45 Colt for my Ruger Hunter Revolvers and the bullet that is actually accurate in my .475 BFR and I'll be all set! [smilie=p:

[John Ross]

So does anyone sell these to canada , ive tried matts and ranger and they dont any one know.
thanks

Best bet would be to find someone near you that casts and buy him a mold from Dan at Mountainmolds.com.