Ever have an "AHA!" moment?

[armoredman]

Start with this nifty new Lyman 356402 mold, add a set of Lee 6 cavity handles, some melted wheel weight lead, sized to .356 and voila!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/casting%20stuff/124grainLymanConical.jpg

Nice...but the last time I dealt with a cast conical boolit I purchased pre cast, I ended up with some funky loaded rounds due to the Lee seating stem I have, looking like this,

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/casting%20stuff/125grTC.jpg

That...looks...odd. We'll skip some of the obvious comments...
The boolit also did very poorly, and I scrapped what was left later.

So fast forward to me casting with a very nice Lyman 356402 yesterday, and lubed overnight. So I am thinking where am I going to find data?

Lightbulb time - grab that nice copy of Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition, and flip to the 9mm slot. Aha, it's a 121 grain, and they recommend 1.11 COAL. Hokay, let's set that up. I set it all up, did the dummy round routine and got it good and solid at that COAL...and whilst I was setting up the camera, I twisted at it to get some LLA off, and the boolit spun right up out of the case. Ka wha??? I got back at it, and the spun boolit, which had gone through the FCD stage, was measuring .354. That's odd. Pulled bullets with inertial puller, and start playing with dies. Experimented with the seater die as the crimp die - roll crimps look stupid on a 9mm, didja know that? Back that puppy up. Boolit starts to develop the "turret" look, widen the expander die, etc., etc. Got the seater to give appropriate crimp without using FCD, check using dismounted pistol barrel - perfect ka-thunk. Finally, here it is, a perfect 1.11 COAL, the last of the boolits that bravely volunteered to set up the dies, my set up dummy for seating depth. No "turret" from the seater plug, either, but it looks terrible from all the twisting I did on it to see if it will stay seated. If I hollow point this mold it will need to stay where I put it. The others who suffered numerous "dismounts" using the inertial bullet puller are back in the pot, too scarred to use.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/casting%20stuff/conicaldummy.jpg

I am sure to have to reset everything for my regular plinking ammo, but that's OK, gonna go load some testers for this boolit and see what happens.

Thoughts?

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have two 9's. The Tangfolio Witness will digest anything I feed it. My Browing Hi Power is a very picky eater.

Working up a cast loading that will feed and work well in the Browning and still give decent accuracy has been an ongoing project for the last few years for me.

However since I have the time I will get it done sometime. In the meantime it is fun to play with them.

The Browning likes a .357 to .358 dia cast lead boolit. If I try a skinnier one it pukes all kinds of stuff all over the gun and gunks up at about the 30 round mark and will not work at all unless cleaned. Could be a powder issue or something else. Time will tell.

[7br]

Start with this nifty new Lyman 356402 mold, add a set of Lee 6 cavity handles, some melted wheel weight lead, sized to .356 and I am sure to have to reset everything for my regular plinking ammo, but that's OK, gonna go load some testers for this boolit and see what happens.

Thoughts?

Before you re-adjust the dies, make sure you load up at least two boolits in cases with spent primers. Makes adjusting the dies back to where you were at a lot simplier. Load two, because you will loose one if you don't.

[armoredman]

Got that one covered. :)

[williamwaco]

Are you saying the bullet was sized to .354? Or that it was swaged down during the seating operation?

I have 4 - 9's all 1911s of various brands.

If I put a .354 bullet in any them it would very likely come out end over end.
I size .356 to .357.

[mpmarty]

Note he used the infamous LEE ****tory crimp die.

[Shiloh]

I have 4 - 9's all 1911s of various brands.

If I put a .354 bullet in any them it would very likely come out end over end.
I size .356 to .357.

If mine are sized to .356 they hit the 50' NRA B-2 target sideways. No groups, but patterns.

.357 better. Actual groups. At .358 tighter groups, A LOT better.
The only boolit that shoots well for me as it drops larger enough, is the LEE 125 gr. RN

Shiloh

[Jim]

Note he used the infamous LEE ****tory crimp die.

Safe to assume you're not fond of that?

[beagle]

I'll go with Shiloh. My two HPs like bullets sized .3575 ( I had a custom sizer made it years ago for some project) TThe HPs love it./beagle

[williamwaco]

Note he used the infamous LEE ****tory crimp die.



As the man says: "AHHhh - Ha!"

I didn't understand that.
I have not used it, but I have not heard good things about that particular die.

[armoredman]

Unfortunately, the load was a jammatic, every other round was a failure to feed...back to the old drawing board...
BTWm this was with the Lee FCD not being used.
BTW, used several of this boolit,

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/casting%20stuff/3561252R1.jpg

..and these were loaded with the evil FCD, with decent results. Also the other Lee boolit, the TL version, also loaded with Lee FCD, good results. I was surprised that one conical boolit apparently sized down so far.

[Char-Gar]

I guess some folks don't get the word on those Lee FC dies and cast bullets. Replace it with a good taper crimp die and the world will be much better for you.

It isn't hard to produce good reliable cast bullet loads in the 9mm and 45 ACP. I am at a loss to understand why so many find it so difficult. I size 9mm bullets .358 and 45 ACP .452 and never have a problem. I also taper crimp both, again with no problems. All that is needed a a decent powder and charge and the correct seating depth of the bullet.

[armoredman]

I don't have a taper crimp die, but I am going to try these conicals again sized to 358 and seated a bit deeper for better feeding.

These targets, (five shot groups), were made using both of the Lee boolits sized to .356 and loaded using a Lee FCD set to light crimp.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/Phantom%20targets/830111.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/Phantom%20targets/824112.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/Phantom%20targets/Phantomcastload.jpg

Note, last one done before AA changed all their load data...I wondered why a load listed as medium would cause flattened primers, now it's listed as a full 1.1 grains over maximum...darn shame, the Phantom really likes that one.
Also note, I DEFINITELY am no expert pistol shot, I started testing loads at 10 yards years ago and just kept doing that as a standard.

[MikeS]

Do you by any chance have an extra Lee expander die? If so, try taking out the expander ring from it, and putting the crimping ring from the factory crimp die into it. This way you will have an easily adjustable crimping die, but without the carbide sizing ring the factory crimp die body has in it (which is the part that causes problems for some users). If you have a Bulge Buster kit, you can still use that with the factory crimp die body. Some folks that get bad results with the FCD take the carbide sizer ring out, sometimes breaking it in the process, and when they remove the ring, they loose the ability to use the bulge buster kit. If you don't have an extra expander die, you could always swap out rings with your current expander die, and if you like the results you could buy just the expander body as a spare part from Lee. I've never checked, but it might actually be cheaper to just buy a whole new powder thru expander die from somebody like Midway, or Factory Sales, rather than buying just the body from Lee. Another thought, you might want to buy a Lyman M expander die, that might help keep your boolits the size you sized them to when seated, and then your Lee expander would be a spare. That's what I do, I always use a Lyman M die for expanding, so the Lee expander in my die set became the home of the crimping ring, and so became my Lee Almost Factory Crimp Die. :)

[looseprojectile]

along with the good advice already given, a harder alloy. Not necessarily pure lino
but maybe just some more tin.
I find in the .45 auto soft works well but the 9mm is a lot more violent.

Life is good

[armoredman]

I am almost out of my original ingot stash, so going to a harder alloy is next, a gift from a captain I worked for recently. I don't know what it is, but he used it for bench rest rifle boolits, and said it was harder than wheel weights.
I am thinking a taper crimp die might be nice to try, when I have the funds.
MikeS, that's an interesting idea, indeed.

[casterofboolits]

My HP had to have boolits of .357 dia. .356 tumbled at five feet. I used the H&G 09-25-SWCBB over a mid range loads of BlueDot. No leading and a one holer at 15 yards.

[Sonnypie]

I like your last target. If it were me, I'd load that right there until it didn't shoot that good anymore.
7.6 grains of AA#7?

I'm not familure with AA#7.
Now it has been a number of years, but how'd you get that much powder stuffed in a 9mm?
I seem to remember 4.6 grains was a good load for me (Green Dot or Red Dot, CRS)
I do remember 5 or 5.2 slammed the action open rather hard.
So I dropped back to a nice easy shooting reliable load.

I do a light roll crimp on 45 ACP's and so far, so good for me.

[armoredman]

Yeah, the older data I was using from Accurate Arms, Edition 3.1, had data for 124 grain lead bullet with #7 starting at 7.4 going to 8.2 grains. I stopped at 78.6 when I discovered how well it shot. I wondered why it had such stiff recoil for a load within specs...
Then Accurate Arms changed their testing methods, and yowza, yowza, things changed! Now in the .35, (yes, I missed an update or two, all in the scope of a year...), the lead bullet data for a 124 grain slug over AA#7 starts at 5.7 to 6.5. My Phantoms' favorite cast load is +P, a full 1.1 over listed max. Go figure.

[noylj]

Oh good. Browning Hi-Power and cast lead bullets.
My two BHPs will not feed any loads that are too long or too short (and almost all manuals list a COL that is too short to feed). One has a barrel groove of 0.3595" and one has a groove of 0.3575".
I shoot as-cast and LLA tumble lubed bullets. The 0.3575" will shoot some loads quite accurately. The other tends to toss in a few fliers with cast and jacketed bullets. It has what can only be described as indifferent accuracy.
Browning states that both are within tolerance for 9x19 barrels, as up to 0.362" is allowed.
All my other 9s are quite happy with 0.356-0.357" cast bullets, as their groove diameters are 0.355-0.356".
If using a Lee seating die, send a bullet to Lee and order a custom seating stem. I really like Lee dies, but their seating stems seem to made to fit no known cast bullet.

[Sonnypie]

Jlyon,
I shot about 1600 rounds of cast boolits through my BHP. I did not cast them, they were given to me by a friend, who also let me use his Lubersizer and showed me how to do them. (Early 1990's)
I found by adjusting my load, and setting my dies to mimic factory (jacketed) bullets, they shot fine. They were RN, Lyman #2, and I believe they were 125 or so grains. (It was almost 20 years ago now.)
They did tend to dirty up the action something awful (probably the lube used). But they fed and shot as well as my poor aim with a pistol would allow. [smilie=1:
But I tend to focus on one firearm at a time. Or one pistol, and one rifle. Until I develop a pet load for that particular arrangement of components.
So I know it can be done. Slow down, and you will probably speed up. :wink: