My new old truck-- help Mechanics / advise

[gray wolf]

Well my beautiful new old truck is down, had it in for inspection and got some bad news.
After he replaced one of the Manifolds,studs and nuts, rotated the tires
and changed the oil. $500 + Paid for by selling just about everything we own.
He now informs us that the rear lower track bars, in his words are ( gone )
and must be replaced before he will pass it for us.
I don't know a track bar from a pry bar from a drinking bar.
He said about $205 per track bar = $410.00 + labor I think about 2 hours
at $60.00 an hour. and 75 for new power steering hoses and clamps.
I have a black powder rifle for sale on another forum to try and come up with some of the money.
Am I being ripped off ? is this to much money for what he wants to do.
Not that we have it anyway.
It's a shame cause the truck is so clean looking and has run so well for a 1998.
He said all the expeditions have this problem.
Any advise ?
Is it that dangerous to drive the truck in case we need help with something
and have to get someplace ?
I hate to bring up this truck thing again, believe me it pains me.

Sam GW.

[a.squibload]

A trac (traction) bar used to be an accessory for racing or 4WD vehicles.
It helps locate the rear axle housing front-to-rear, and keeps it from rotating.
A friend had trac bars installed on his Jeep after breaking driveshafts a few times,
the rear axle housing would rotate (wiggle?) so bad under acceleration, like
while climbing a rocky hill, the driveshaft u-joints would bind up and break.
That's an extreme case of course.

I wonder what's "gone" with yours, if it's just bushings wore out where the bar mounts
I would think a mild trip to town would not be all that dangerous.
But if the bar is bent or busted you don't want to break something else.
Also it sounds like a lot of $ for bushings. See if he will tell you more specifics.
Your truck needs to pass inspection? If that's a safety inspection I guess they got ya,
unless you can get a second opinion from another mechanic.

Also look up the problem on the 'net, start with your year and model,
I've found a few tips on my vehicles just searching on dogpile.com.

[gray wolf]

Mechanic said it is rusted out. (the track bar) Very little life in it. Said to drive very slowly and don't hit any bumps. (we live in the country on a dirt road off another dirt road, hence needing the 4 wheel drive at times)

So, yeah. They need replaced. The manifold was rusted thru also so I figure the trac bars are also. (lot's of salt on roads up here does that)

Thanks for the advice.

[lunicy]

This is a Ford, Right?

somewhat common of fords.
They will come apart, you can tweek the hell out of your rear.
If you haven't already bought them, look into aftermarket units. (JC whitney, or some off-road outlets) They are usually half the price of Ford factory units.

As for labor, $60/hr aint bad, but these thing are easy as hell to put on if you are handy at all.

[waksupi]

It does suck to get in that situation, but it's a fact of life with vehicles. I've been trying to figure out how to come up with around $900 for new tires, as my old ones are getting thin enough for the air to show through. If mine breaks down, I'm just going to be hitchhiking, or riding the bicycle, as I sure couldn't afford to repair it. Can't hardly even sell a gun around here, every one is broke.

[Alvarez Kelly]

Well... you need 'em. They literally hold the rear end in your truck. Seems to me you could get them in a wrecking yard where they don't use a lot of salt, but the shipping might eat up any savings.

You got anyone who lives in desert country who can do the leg work? Good used would be a LOT cheaper.

[geargnasher]

I don't know what he thinks he's calling "track bars", the rear suspension on a solid-axle '98 expedition has a single track bar that goes from the frame on one side clear across to the axle housing on the other, then there are two upper control (or radius) arms and two lower control arms that make up the five-link rear coil spring suspension. The lower control arms are about $165 cost last I remember, so he's not hosing you on markup. My shop rate is $88/hr for that kind of repair, diesel and 1-ton is more. $60/hr today is cheap for a qualified tech.

I'm really surprised the other end hasn't fallen apart, my main reservation about you getting an expedition is the high wear-rate of the front upper and lower ball joints. They probably ARE worn and loose, but not badly enough to flunk an inspection.

Sounds like we need to have a Lee Liquid Alox drive and send you about 20 bottles so you can do the whole underside of your truck with a brush, maybe cut down on the rot.

BTW, if there's anything under that front end with a grease fitting, make certain he greased them when he did the service. Most places don't do anything but change the oil and filter when they do a service, but most good shops will check everythign under the hood and the tire pressure as well as the differential fluids, transfer case fluid, and grease driveshaft u-joints and front suspension parts IF they have Zerk fittings, which many do not.

Gear

[gray wolf]

We did the ball joints earlier. Last October. So those are already done. Now it's the back end.

We had him power wash the underside last year and greased and it will get done again when the trac bar or whatever it is gets fixed. We already paid for that. He just didn't want to be working in a bunch of grease to fix the suspension.

[MtGun44]

What about doing some work for him or trading some boolits or reloading services for
part of the bill? If nothing else, maybe he needs parts cleaned or cars prepped or
someone to fetch parts for him. See if there is any way to work out part of the bill. Maybe
the wife can assist in some way. Think of any sort of particular skills you have and how
you might pick up some part time work with the mechanic or with someone else in
the area to fill in gaps. Maybe just sweeping up the shop, or answering the phone
for a couple of weeks might get you over the hump. Small towns always need something,
you just need to figure out what it is.

You can't have the rear axle fall off and you will be needing that machine for serious
in a couple months up there.

Bill

[gray wolf]

He has more help than he needs now at his place and he is not a hunter. So that's out. No jobs around that either my wife or I could do either with our physical problems. (old age and getting worn out)
She has two doctor appointments this month to get to that are an hour away. (no ortho docs up here or eye doctors) Both are very important. One is to get her knee injected for pain and the other so she can see, glasses are no good anymore and need replaced. We budgeted for that part. She has been waiting literally years for the knees and the glasses.

I think it is probably the lower control arms he is talking about being worn out. He said the uppers were fine, so that is what I guess he was talking about. (thanks to gear I know what it is that is gone now)

As most of you know, we live up in the mts and all the bigger cities with services or larger stores are an hour away so this truck has got to get fixed.

Thanks for the advice.

[WILCO]

As most of you know, we live up in the mts and all the bigger cities with services or larger stores are an hour away........

Maybe it's time to move?

[Bret4207]

Had to do those bars on ours too. price sounds about right. Sorry. If you can do the work yourself that'll save you a little.

[gray wolf]

No mechanic in this house. And no garage or similar to do any work in. Too wet outside to even attempt something like this plus GW's back won't let him to stuff like that anymore.

Wise Owl
(aka, Julie)

But thanks for the suggestions guys.

[Calamity Jake]

Didn't donations from this board buy that truck?

Why can't donations fix it? I"ll start, where do I send the $s?

[FWest]

Whats your location ? Ford has had some recalls on rusty suspention in the North East. Have you called the dealer to inquire ?

[PatMarlin]

It does suck to get in that situation, but it's a fact of life with vehicles. I've been trying to figure out how to come up with around $900 for new tires, as my old ones are getting thin enough for the air to show through. If mine breaks down, I'm just going to be hitchhiking, or riding the bicycle, as I sure couldn't afford to repair it. Can't hardly even sell a gun around here, every one is broke.

Man I'm with you there Ric. I just run used tires now. Mine are bout' gone and snow is a comin'. That's another reason I just stay home.,

Got to be wealthy to run rubber these days... :mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

Sounds like we need to have a Lee Liquid Alox drive and send you about 20 bottles so you can do the whole underside of your truck with a brush, maybe cut down on the rot.

Gear

Fluid Film spray. That's what it is:

http://www.fluid-film.com/products/

[gray wolf]

Yes this is the truck all you great guy's got for us and we love it very much.
It was the best we could do with all the wonderful donations.
We have to keep in mind she ain't new ( just looks kinda new ) kinda.
The fur kids like it and it's just perfect for us.
We are trying our best to keep it up but these repairs are so costly today.

GW.

[mroliver77]

Fluid Film spray. That's what it is:

http://www.fluid-film.com/products/

Pat, I assume you use gthis stuff? I have never heard of it but it sounds interesting! If it works half as good as they say it would be invaluable to us in the salt belt. I also have tractore, mowers etc to keep in operating condition.

Geesh I complain about Ohio but we don't have the inspection laws( yet). If it comes I will become a pedestrian as I drive old junkers and at times they would not pass a stringent inspection. I keep decent tires on them and can handle brakes, tie rod ends etc. Friggen sensors and puter stuff is a pain for back yard mechanic!

Waksupi,
what kind of tires do you need? That is one thing I look at when buying a vehicle, it must run a "standard" tire that I can purchase at a wally world, meijors etc store. My truck runs 235/75/15 tires. I have walmart "cooper" brand that ran around $100.each new. I have a coats 10-10 tire machine and a bubble balancer to mount my own. I always whatch garage sales etc for stuff like this I will need( or my poor friends). Not trying to ride you just wondering about the $900.
J
J

[Alvarez Kelly]

Why can't donations fix it? I"ll start, where do I send the $s?

I'm in too. Who is collecting?

[PatMarlin]

Pat, I assume you use gthis stuff? I have never heard of it but it sounds interesting! If it works half as good as they say it would be invaluable to us in the salt belt. I also have tractore, mowers etc to keep in operating condition.



Yep- it's standard treatment on ships and sea vessels. I use it on my boat trailer for salt water and I swear it looks and smells like Alox.

[Trey45]

Pat if it's the same thing as cosmoline we're golden.

[leadman]

waksupi, I to am on a fixed income and had to buy some tires. I live in a big town (Phx) so had alot of options. I went to a little tire shop and bought some Chinese made tires. Paid $400 for 4 LT265/75R16 off road tires mounted and balanced. Got about 5,000 miles on them and they are doing great.
Walmart has the same size in an off-road tire for around $150 more.
I sold some almost new take-offs from my '05 Silverado after I put larger tires on it so maybe you could find some close to you. got $200 for 4 tires.Try Craigslist.

Another thing for GW to try is check ebay for the parts for his truck. Will probably have to work it out with the mechanic to get the right parts and his ok to install them.

[waksupi]

Waksupi,
what kind of tires do you need? That is one thing I look at when buying a vehicle, it must run a "standard" tire that I can purchase at a wally world, meijors etc store. My truck runs 235/75/15 tires. I have walmart "cooper" brand that ran around $100.each new. I have a coats 10-10 tire machine and a bubble balancer to mount my own. I always whatch garage sales etc for stuff like this I will need( or my poor friends). Not trying to ride you just wondering about the $900.
J
J

Didn't mean to hijack. That is just what a guy in the tire shop told me,to replace with the same tires as is on it. I definitely need an aggressive siped winter tread here. I do see now after looking around, there are some cheaper options I am going to look into, both new, and on Craigslist. Watch for things for sale here the next few days!

[Norbrat]

We just did a tag along tour through the Aussie outback with a bloke who has gone to a lot of trouble to learn how to repair tyres.

http://www.beadelltours.com.au/tyre_information.html

http://www.rema-tiptop.com/portal/products-automotive.html

It seems a lot of good tyres with sidewall punctures are scrapped because no-one wants to repair them, even though it can be done quite safely. He was at a local dump and reckons he could have easily salvaged a complete set of tyres simply by patching.

While he obviously has a fair amount of experience and makes it look simple, it ain't rocket science and anyone with some manual skills should be able to do it.

While this obviously won't work with worn tyres, it may help if you can find some "damaged" tyres. A $30 patch to fix a $250 tyre is a good option when money is short.

[Blacksmith]

I get my tires at the truck tire dealer. He only stocks a few car and light truck tires but I go in and tell him I am not in a hurry and what I want and he orders them. Usually takes only a day two at the most then I go in when business is slow and he mounts and balances. Prices are more resonable than the car tire places, dealer, or my mechanic, and better service than PEP Boys. He doesn't have to stock any tires and I help fill in his slow times so he gives me a good price. If I could only get his wheel weights instead of the other guy he deals with.

Blacksmith

[badbob454]

if he has any wheelweights to offset the cost.. ask him ,for some... it would be hard to say no to a good customer ./ ps sorry im working on my signature thus the black (color ) black() stuff

[PatMarlin]

Be real careful buying used tires. Check the date on the sidewall and make sure they're not over 7 years old and have not been kept in the sun. They will blow on you.

There's a 4 digit number, with the last 2 being the year.

[Calamity Jake]

I'm in too. Who is collecting?

I have requested Gray Wolfs snail mail address so I can send some $s.
With his permission I will foward it to anyone on this board via PM so they can send a donation also or you can send your $s to me and I will forward it to them.

I have to get there address first, so stay tuned.

[Finster101]

I have no idea what parts the guy is calling "trac bars" what Gear described is the pan hard rod. Find out the correct part and look here

http://www.car-part.com/

I have used them before for friends and family, but you have to know the right part to look for and "trac bars" won't hunt.

James

[a.squibload]

...
It seems a lot of good tyres with sidewall punctures are scrapped because no-one wants to repair them, even though it can be done quite safely....

From the link:
"Be very aware that there is far more to tyre repair than slapping a patch over some damage
and roaring off down the road. Do not attempt tyre repairs unless you are qualified to do so."
That's just what a guy in our 4WD club did, ripped a hole in the sidewall
way up the mountain near a mine, no spare. Stuffed 5 (yes, five) plugs in it,
aired it up, and I could barely keep up with him after we got back to the pavement,
screaming down mountain roads on the way home. The patch was temporary at best,
but it held. I was thinking he would get to the pavement and call a tow truck!

I always carry a plug kit, large rubber patches, and on-board air or a good 12v compressor.
We have reseated many a tire on the trail after fixin' 'em up, but the high-speed highway thing
is a little risky.

[lylejb]

Not to be one of those awfull ebay link posters, but if it's rear lower control arms you need here is a guy that's making them for $125 / per pair, with free shipping. the auction number is 250892326752

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-FORD-EXPEDITION-NAVIGATOR-LOWER-REAR-CONTROL-ARMS-/250892326752?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a6a591760

I'm haven't used, or have any interest or connection with his products, but thought this might help you.

Please call your mechanic and make sure it is " Rear lower control arms " that you need before buying anything. these are also sometimes called " trailing arms "

Hope this helps.

[Norbrat]

From the link:
"Be very aware that there is far more to tyre repair than slapping a patch over some damage
and roaring off down the road. Do not attempt tyre repairs unless you are qualified to do so."
That's just what a guy in our 4WD club did, ripped a hole in the sidewall
way up the mountain near a mine, no spare. Stuffed 5 (yes, five) plugs in it,
aired it up, and I could barely keep up with him after we got back to the pavement,
screaming down mountain roads on the way home. The patch was temporary at best,
but it held. I was thinking he would get to the pavement and call a tow truck!

I always carry a plug kit, large rubber patches, and on-board air or a good 12v compressor.
We have reseated many a tire on the trail after fixin' 'em up, but the high-speed highway thing
is a little risky.

Mick tried to get "qualified" to do these repairs, but couldn't find anywhere he could be trained, so he basically taught himself by using instructions from Rema Tip Top and other research.

Stuffing plugs into ANY hole which is not in the tread is a big no-no, yet that seems to be the only method suggested these days to get you out of trouble. You are then supposed to go to your nearest friendly tyre dealer and buy a new tyre.

There are standards for what repairs can be done safely in the tread, shoulder and sidewall of tyres. Fitting a correctly selected and sized patch properly, using fairly simple techniques, will make a tyre completely safe to continue to use. It really ain't rocket science!

The problem is that almost NO tyre fitter or dealer will offer to either repair the tyre, or send you to someone who can; not that there too many folks around who can still do this as it seems to have become one of those lost skills.

This is mainly due to the dealer making a much better margin on a new tyre than taking the time and effort to do an inexpensive repair. The argument which is usually used is that they are unwilling to guarantee the safety of the repaired tyre.

It would be interesting to know just how many repairable tyres have ended up being discarded and in landfills because of this attitude.

Larger truck tyres used on say mining machinery are routinely repaired as they are not going to discard an expensive tyre which could be safely repaired, yet in the consumer market this is something no longer done.

My initial post was to offer an option to having to replace worn tyres when you are cash strapped. Most folks do not know or believe that tyres can be repaired safely, and surely having a repaired tyre would have to be safer than driving on bald tyres.

I also carry a selection of appropriate patches for my off-road tyres and tubes, the correct glues and tools, as well as spare tubes.

[gray wolf]

They are the rear lower control arms for the suspension.

We have new tires on it. Got them in Dec of last year. So, we are all set in that dept. Only about 4 thou on them so far.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Be real careful buying used tires. Check the date on the sidewall and make sure they're not over 7 years old and have not been kept in the sun. They will blow on you.

There's a 4 digit number, with the last 2 being the year.

A BIG +1 for Pat.

in 2000, I bought a Jeep grand cherokee, it had the most awesome winter tires on it...soft to the touch, and the grip on ice was unbelievable. I don't drive that many miles with this vehicle. In January 2010, on a -20º day, I had a flat. I was at the snowmobile dealer and drove through the back side of his lot...I figured it was a nail...I cussed him out good while he was helping me put some air into it, so I could drive across town to have it fixed properly.

Well, I get to the goodyear dealer, He says, Dry Rot on the inner side walls on all 4 tires. He showed me, I could dig my fingernails in and it would just chunk off like dusty chunks of cake. there was still good tread on them, he checked the date code, it was 1999, I said that's about right...He said, these kind of tires rarely last 7 years...and I got real lucky.

Sorry to hijack...
Jon

[trooperdan]

That eBay link looks like a winner! maybe check with the mechanic and be saure that is what he needs, sure looks like a money saver!

[PatMarlin]

No tire repair dealer in America would touch damage like that due to liability. We no longer suffer the risk of going out of business due to profit issues, in America- you get sued out of business... :roll:

My buddy and I once got home making a plug with nothing but duct tape, and what tool we could fashion out of what was laying in the parking lot ..:mrgreen:

What else would you expect from a Hillbilly and a Mexican and air rushing out of a tire ..:mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

That eBay link looks like a winner! maybe check with the mechanic and be saure that is what he needs, sure looks like a money saver!

+1 on that as well. Looks good.

Buy a $6.95 can of fluid film and coat those puppies before install.