Suggestions on a H&A rifle?

[Jim]

I have recently aquired a Hopkins & Allen underhammer in what I'm guessing is .45 caliber. The overall length of the rifle is 37 1/4". A calibrated postal scale says it weighs 5 1/2 lbs. A ramrod bottomed out in the barrel and marked at the muzzle shows 19 3/8". A caliper opened in the grooves reads .465".

What I know about H&A rifles wouldn't fill a thimble. Can y'all help me with some info?

1- What's the twist rate?

2- Can I shoot RBs in it?

3- If I use a .016 linen patch, what would be the best ball size to use? (assuming I can shoot RBs in it.)

4- What would be a good starting load using Hodgdon's Triple Seven in 3fG? (that's what I've got on hand.)

5- Are we there yet? :veryconfu

Thanks, guys!

http://jgcphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/p10100041-e1317562495884.jpg

http://jgcphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/p1010001-e1317562554261.jpg

[mooman76]

I have a Hopkins & Allen but it looks like a import from some time ago. Back when MLs were starting to make a comeback and CVA and Traditions were also imported and put their name on them. Mine isn't a underhammer though, mines a Kentucky. I'd try a .440 RB to start out with and with 777 I'd start out with something like 40gr and work up in 5gr increments. RBs usually shoot well even in tight twist barrels, just don't like as much powder. To figure out your twist you can put a tight patch on a cleaning jag, mark the rod and push in a foot. I usually like to go in at least 2' but you obviously can't. You'll have to use math from there. If your rod turns 1/4 way around it has a 1/48 twist and so on. It's harder to tel when you only go a short distance. If it's a older gun I would guess it was 1/66 but that's just a guess. When they first started remaking these guns they seemed to use that twist allot.

[Jim]

I just slugged the barrel with a .460 RB. The lands are .446 and the grooves are .465.

[bubba.50]

can't help on the twist/loads but if ya look close at yer top pik ya can barely make out a couple letters over the hopkins and what's left of the word "arms" over the allen. this is what's left of the "numrich arms" that was stamped there so it's probably had a refinish somewhere along the line. it was made in the good ol' u.s. of a. and from the barrel length is what they called "the buggy rifle". for what it's worth and have a good'en neighbor, bubba.

[Jim]

Yeah, I saw that, Bubba. It's kinda' hard to tell from the photo, but the bottom right of the whole stamping is deepest. I think the die hit it a bit out of square and the top left just didn't imprint.

[John Taylor]

Numrich made these rifles in several different stiles for many years. The frame changed a few times with some being thin wall tube with inserts welded in to hold the barrel and stock screw. The hammer and trigger are the same basic castings as sold by Deer Creek today. I believe the cast frame that deer Creek has now is the last design change from Numerich. I don't remember the year they were introduced but it was someplace around the late 1950's or early 1960's.

[bob208]

the twist would be 1-52. they were made to shoot rb. i use .440 and .018 patch. if that is too tight . go to .015 patch.

as far a powder i only use bp mine shoots just fine with 45 gr. 3f.

[Jim]

Thanks, Bob! That's what I'm lookin' for!

[pietro]

My H&A underhammer is happiest with a PRB & Holy Black - but it's a .36.

They are neat rifles, and since I got this one, I sold the heavier T/C .32 I was toting around before.

It's amusing - as my age & weight go UP, I like my rifle weight to go DOWN. :roll:

.

[scrapcan]

Jim,

Oh you need to spend some time reading the following website. there is a small link at bottom right to send you to older blog posts. If you read far enough you will see some nice things built by John Taylor also! the blog spot belongs to Roger Renner, a bright light in the underhammer world (as is our of Mr. Taylor).

http://underhammers.blogspot.com/

There is a short blurb on using paper cartridges also. Very interesting.

[Hang Fire]

If you plan on shooting it very much, first thing I would do is look for a source for replacement of the trigger guard/mainspring. The one I had went through several over the years, they all too often lose their temper rather fast.

[DIRT Farmer]

I have hunted a lot of squrriels with 40 grns of fffg and a .440 ball patched with ticking. The gun has accounted for at least two deer with a 55 grn load. I got mine real cheap and found out why with the first shot. The nipple was burned out and I had a B/P tattoo on my left wrist for about 20 years, Check the nipple.

[Groundhawg]

might wanna try a .433 ball ... they tend to like em
Hopkins and Allen were sold by Navy Arms and Numrich arms too ...
very popular in certain crowds too.
Have a friend up North that has a few of them.
twist in 1 in 56 I think ...
they were good guns meant to be used.
enjoy it

[Hanshi]

My H&A underhammer .45 was purchased in the mid 1960s and has made its bones in the hunting field and on the range.http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt74/hanshi_photo/PICT0387-1.jpg

It now needs a new tg spring and maybe a new hammer and is retired until it's refitted. These old H&As were/are among the most accurate rifles (not just ML, either) I've ever fired. Mine is still capable of sub 1" groups at 50 yds. These old bores were tight. Mine does well with a .440" ball and .020" ticking patch though it is very tight. A .433" ball was initially recommended for this reason.