short brass

[jacob7]

Having trouble getting long brass for my 45-70 sharps. It seems that the brass is too short according to buffalo they are all under 2" I just measured my star brass it is 1.98. Where can I get brass at least 2.1" or how can I get it longer? Thanks

[montana_charlie]

There are two case stretchers on the market.

One is a heavy-duty, highly engineered tool that relies on hydraulics to do the job. It stretches a case (with a single motion) from down in the body where there is extra 'meat'.
It's capable of adding up to a tenth of an inch to a case.
To purchase the tool and a Porto Power to make it work costs around $250.

The other tool is a press-mounted 'die' which costs in the forty dollar neighborhood.
It pulls on the case mouth and, using multiple tugs, can stretch a case out by about 20 to perhaps 30 thousandths.

If you need to know more, the hydraulic tool is here http://kal.castpics.net/CaseStretcher.html
, and I will try to search out the website of the guy making the press-mounted die tool.

CM

[jacob7]

Have you had any experience with either?Would you use the thicker of the brass cases remington I think? Do you think I'm splitting hairs with this or is it money wasted and not gaining much? What do you and others do? Thanks

[Don McDowell]

Are you having troubles with leading or accuracy, or are you just fussing about stuff you've read on the internet about "short" brass?

[ss40_70]

the cases i use in both my 45-70 and 45-90 are a bit short i do get a lube ring on the case mouth . i think unless your getting a lead or paper ring you might be fixing a problem that isnt there .

[jacob7]

I'm just trying to get the best accuracy that I can. I haven't read anything on the internet only in writings from a couple of people that win alot and their brass is 2.1 or close. Thanks

[Don McDowell]

What sort of accuracy are you getting now?

[montana_charlie]

Have you had any experience with either?Would you use the thicker of the brass cases remington I think?
I have no experience with the die-type tool. The maker explained basically how it works, so that is the extent of my knowledge about it.

As for the Kal-Max tool, I invented it. Rick Kalynuik and I worked together for about a year to devise a model that could be mass produced, and which works simply enough for anybody to use it.
Once all of the development was complete, I stepped out of the picture. Getting it built and available was my sole interest.
Now, I only supply 'tech support' to operators who have questions.

My first experiments were carried out using Remington brass, so it is quite suitable for stretching. So is Starline, which has almost identical interior dimensions.
The Kal-Max will not stretch .45 caliber Winchester brass as it's wall is already thinner than that left by the Kal-Max.


Do you think I'm splitting hairs with this or is it money wasted and not gaining much? What do you and others do? Thanks
Personally, I had a leading problem that I was chasing. A long discussion on the Shiloh forum pointed me toward 'short brass' as a possible cause, so it went from there after I discovered how 'short' my brass actually was.

If you don't have a leading problem, stretching cases won't do much for you.
If you do have leading in the end of the chamber, but you can eliminate it by leaving a grease groove exposed, that is a suitable work-around.

If exposed grease grooves are a problem for some reason, or if you just like having everything fit together closely, longer cases will cure certain problems and prevent others. But it does not, in itself, create improved accuracy.

Here are links to two videos. The first is the Kal-Max Case Stretching Jig, and the second is the die-type stretcher.

Kal-Max.avi on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGzQsrPT4Qs

Checker's stretcher:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJQVNTvj5Lw

How many others do you know who would actually provide advertising for the competition?
CM

[jacob7]

I'm shooting at 300yds. with groups 5.25 to 7" depending on what I am experimenting with the loads that day. That's 2 MOA I am striving for 1 MOA. One day I'd like to get there so I keep on asking questions. Thanks.

[ss40_70]

personaly i think 2 moa is pretty darn respectable , before you drive yourself crazy in the quest for 1moa ask yourself if you are capable of shooting moa , i cant , and i have yet to see anyone first hand shoot moa groups with a bp rifle using either a scope or iron sights

[Don McDowell]

I seriously doubt that stretching and weakening brass will do anything to help you loose that last moa.
If anything will help that moa go away, it'll be carefully built loads and lots of trigger time, with perfection in technique and ability to read conditions.

[littlejack]

jacob7:
My 45-70 R-P cases ar 2.1 in length, neck sized. My chamber is cut approximately .046 +/-
longer than the cases. I do get a small grease ring on the mouth of the ejected case. I do
not get any leading, at all.
The rifle shoots MOA at 100 yards. I don't think I can hold any steadier than that.
This is with the Malcome 6x scope.
I will be checking my loads/rifle at 200 yards before too long.
Jack

[jacob7]

little jack where did you get your brass or how did you get it to 2.1? I don't know what R-P cases are.
Thanks

[Jim]

First, I'll confess that what I know about BPCR wouldn't fill up a thimble. If it counts for anything, though, I have been shooting .45-70s for many years.

It's been my experience that Starline makes the best brass. I've got, I think, a hundred or so of that brand. I have no clue how many times they've been fired. Some of them date back to 2003 or 4.

There's no possible way that I could ever shoot as good as my rifles will. However, on the bench on a good day, I can shoot 2 MOA and every now and then, I'll luck up and shoot a tad better.

The photo below is of a Starline brass. It's .004 shy of the target length. That's a sheet of paper. Like I said, what I know about BPCR don't amount to nothin', but I can't help but wonder how much difference that makes.

http://jgcphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/p10100021-e1317644966111.jpg

[Dan Cash]

I have and use the press mounted stretcher and it is most satisfactory for what it is intended. My Shilo has a 2.023 inch chamber, which combined with 1.87 Starline brass left a big lead ring at the chamber mouth. The Checker Stretcher readily solved that problem and eliminated the lead ring. I also load for a friend's Pedersoli that has a 2.055 chamber. The stretcher improved the situation with his gun but the brass won't stretch that far.

[semtav]

I have and use the press mounted stretcher and it is most satisfactory for what it is intended. My Shilo has a 2.023 inch chamber, which combined with 1.87 Starline brass left a big lead ring at the chamber mouth. The Checker Stretcher readily solved that problem and eliminated the lead ring. I also load for a friend's Pedersoli that has a 2.055 chamber. The stretcher improved the situation with his gun but the brass won't stretch that far.

Are we really talking 1.87 or are we talking 2.087 cause that is some serious short if you are.

The picture above shows 2.096 length brass.

[Jim]

That's a good question. I do know that the brass made for the Hornady Leverevolution ammo is much shorter than standard brass.

SEE THIS POST. (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=368690&postcount=1)

[Gunlaker]

Something odd is going on. I have used an awful lot of .45-70 brass over the years. Starline, R-P, WW and Federal. I've never had a new case measure anything like that short. Starline is very consistent at 2.096" to 2.097" long. I've had more length variance with other brands, but have never seen a new case shorter than 2.095". Are you including the rim when measuring?

I have seen a lot of variance in rim thickness however. Mostly in Starline brass.

Chris.

[montana_charlie]

My Shilo has a 2.023 inch chamber, which combined with 1.87 Starline brass left a big lead ring at the chamber mouth. The Checker Stretcher readily solved that problem and eliminated the lead ring.
I'm guessing you meant to say that your Shiloh's chamber is 2.123" deep, and your brass was 2.087 long.

Those dimensions would leave your case thirty-six thousandths shorter than your chamber.
That's a bit more that the thickness of the good old .030 veggie wad, and plenty of room to start collecting lead if the gap is not packed with pressurized bullet lube.

CM

[littlejack]

jacob7:
I swap for or buy my brass like anyone else. Alot/most brass is short. It will grow some when
reloaded/shot enough times. Don't expect too much though. I don't consider .005 short, to be
way excessive for plinkin. Most brass is within my tolerances.
R-P is just plain Remington brass. R-P = Remington - Peters.
Jack