Star lube Sizer vs. Magma Lube sizer

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Is there any significant differences between the older Star lube sizers and the Magma sizer that make any significant difference to most folks? Would anyone that owns both be kind enough to highlight the significant differences and what's better about each one?

I'm looking at buying either an older one or a new one from Magma and need a little help making the decision.

Thank you,

Dave

[Dale53]

I would let price be my guide. If an old one is close to new price, buy a new one. I have a Star that is many years and thousands of bullets old but I have a couple of new Magma dies that work perfectly. If you can get a real deal on a Star, buy that one. You won't go wrong as the parts are pretty much the same.

Dale53

[454PB]

The only difference I know of is that the new Magma Star sizers don't have a set screw to retain the sizing die in the die body. It really isn't needed anyway, my older Star has it, and I don't use it.

[Springfield]

I have 2 older Stars and one new Magma. They all work the same. The only real differences is the old ones had a set screw to hold in the dies. I don't know why, it can't go anywhere. And the new ones had an o-ring to seal in the lube around the die. I don't use it as it was a pain if you change out your dies all the time like I do. It works just fine without it. Also the lube seal on the new ones is white, I assume teflon or nylon, while the old ones use some sort of black material. They all seal fine. Oh yeah, the old ones have square bodied springs and the new one have round bodied springs. They all push just fine. I was bidding on e-bay for a complete machine a parts for most of another. They sold for 322.00. For another 70 bucks that guy could have bought 2 new machines. Just get a new one and be done with it.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Gentlemen,

Thank you. That cleared things up nicely. I'll just get a new one with a warranty since they seem to work about the same.

Dave

[rbwillnj]

New ones are fine, but the last time I looked, they were $195 and didn't include a die or punch, so add another $47 for a die and punch from Magma. Most of the Stars on ebay sell for about $175 including one die and punch, and they last for ever.

[dmftoy1]

In a slightly different twist on the question . . . .

Is the Star/Magma the best route to go? I don't mind spending the extra $ for a quality tool and from what I read on here it seems like it's better than the RCBS or Lyman . . . .

I just finished my first bullet casting experiment today and it turned out pretty well so I'm I'm now shopping for a sizer . . .looking at the Magma site I'm a bit confused though as they seem to indicate that you have to tell them how many lube groves your bullet has and the width. Will I have to have a separate die for each 45-70 bullet I cast??? (at $35 a pop) In reading the Midway site it appears that you don't have to do that with the Lyman or RCBS . .

Oh yeah, and one last question. I assume that the "heated base" is a must have option. Is there anything else that you really should consider mandatory on one of these or does that about do it?

Thanks in advance for all the advice,
Dave

[Lloyd Smale]

no you just order your dies with enough rows of lube holes for the bullet with the most groves you have then when sizing one with less groves you plug the holes with #8 shot.

[454PB]

What Lloyd said, plus a link to a previous discussion about this:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=12380

[dmftoy1]

LOL . .I had just found that thread and was reading it. THANKS!! (sorry for the stupid questions. I'm very comfortable with reloading equipment but a complete novice with this bullet casting stuff. (I am loving it though :) )

[ANeat]

Oh yeah, and one last question. I assume that the "heated base" is a must have option. Is there anything else that you really should consider mandatory on one of these or does that about do it?

Thanks in advance for all the advice,
Dave


If your lube requires heat then you will need a heater no matter what lube sizer you get. There are a lot of "budget" options around that.

Here is my setup, sizer bolted to scrap aluminum base using a clothes iron for a "heater"
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h165/aneat/Lead/Image022.jpg

[Dale53]

One caution regarding the Star:
You may have a problem with LONG rifle bullets. Say, 500 grs in a 45/70 or 400 grs in a 40/65. That length bullet will exceed the usable length of your die. You may not be able to lube all of the grooves in the bullet with one pass. It was suggested that I run them through the die twice (once nose down and once base down) to get all the of grooves lubed. It did not work for me. However, I WAS warned by Magma before I ordered the die and it was on my head. For bullets like that, I just pan lube, then run them through the Star or you could use a Lee Push Through die in the same way.

When it comes to pistol bullets, however, it is STAR all the way!

Dale53

[dmftoy1]

Ahhhh, well that's great advice as my first "target" is a hollowbase 405 grain (386 cast with WW) 45-70 bullet. It's pretty long and has 3 lube groves. Do you think the Star would have problems with this?

Regards,
Dave

[Springfield]

I lube a 535 grain 45-70 with 4 lube grooves with no problems at all. As for e-bay being a better deal, what is the chance that someone is selling one with the exact die you need? And I haven't seen one go for 175.00 for a while. It happens, but rarely.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

New ones are fine, but the last time I looked, they were $195 and didn't include a die or punch, so add another $47 for a die and punch from Magma. Most of the Stars on ebay sell for about $175 including one die and punch, and they last for ever.

I just watched two ebay auctions where they hit 300 plus dollars. Of course, that was with some goodies to go along with the press. But for the 20 bucks savings, I'll take the warranty the new one comes with I'm thinking unless there's a real performance difference.

Dave

[Jon K]

Like Dale, I'm having trouble lubing a 40 cal 420 grain boolit. The boolit has 4 grease grooves, .160 c-c. It will lube 3 of the 4 GG ok, but try to do extra pumps of lube and it gets messy. I was warned that they didn't know how this would work out when I ordered the die, and gave them GG specs.

Jon

[Springfield]

If doing extra pumps makes a mess then the holes are not lined up or you have a bullet the is undersized or with voids. The lube can't get by a bullet that is sealing the bore.

[KYCaster]

I don't have any problem with 420 gr. 40 cal. or 520 gr. 45 cal., both with five grooves. Just adjust the punch to lube the first three grooves and run them all through, then screw the punch down to lube the others and run them through again. Works fine for me.

Jerry

[okotoks]

Re Star sizer and "long" bullets
regarding sizing and lubing long bullets I just started casting 45-70 Hoch 420GC, I found that if I removed the locking nut from the punch I was able to screw the punch further up into the shaft that I was able to lube all groves in the long bullets in one pass, after finding this solution I didn't have much if any extra lube mess.
My star is 23+ years old and works fine
got this new die from Stillwell tool and die
http://www.sizingdie.com/

okotoks

[Sundogg1911]

I have a few Stars a Lyman 450 and an RCBS Luber. Since buying the stars I rarly use the others. The stars are much fasterm, and if you size nose first you don't need a top punch for each boolit. I have 3 different main flat punches that I use for just about everything. also if you have bevel base bullets the Stars work the best because you don't get a blob of lube in the base of each round. I like my Lyman too, but for me the Stars are my favorite.

[JakeOz]

Below is a message I sent to the company mentioned above about a concern I have with 38-55 Winchesters. This problem may become even more personal as I am about to purchase (possibly an original)38-55 to use here in Australia.

As I sent this over a week ago and have not had a reply, I thought I would repeat it here for your thoughts.

"I have a problem here in Australia where a number of 38-55 Winchesters are not chambering reloads correctly.

The projectiles that are being cast are being sized to .378 as per Cartridges of the World specs for this calibre and the dies supplied are only neck expanding to .375 (it would seem that they are fitting 375 Winchester barrels and reaming out the chamber to suit the 38-55 case). This may be for economics, I don't rightly know, but it is causing some concern. We had a shoot just recently and one gent spoke to a dozen people and they ALL complained about trying to chamber a round that last 1/8 th to 1/4 inch being hard.

I have thought about the problem and discussed it with my business partner and have come to the conclusion that there are 2 possible remedies.

1. Have a new neck expander made to go out to .377 or .378 which will allow projectiles to seat a little better as there is less chance it will seat offset and cause bulges. This would be expensive as there are numerous brands of dies around and to make one for each brand would be a pain.

2. Have a sizing die made that would size these cast projectiles down to .375 or .376. The mold is a Magma mold and throws at approx .380, so bringing it down may not be that much of an issue.

This now brings me to my questions.

Discounting option 1 as being expensive and time consuming and seeing as factory 38-55 ammo is using a .375 diameter projectile, how much would it cost to have a .375 sizing die suitable for the Magma Lube/sizer (Star die) made and shipped to us here in Australia, what would be the lead time and what method of payment would be required ?.

Eagerly awaiting your reply.

Kindest regards "

I would be most interested in your experiences in the case.

Thanks
Jake

[dmftoy1]

I don't see why it would be any more than a $35 die from magma with whatever shipping is to Austrialia . . am I missing something?

I've got dies from Magma from .309 - .501 so I don't know why they couldn't make up the .375 you want. FWIW.

Have a good one,
Dave

[Jon K]

JakeOz,

Magma makes a .375 sizing die - check this out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-STAR-sizer-die-in-375_W0QQitemZ7211656341QQihZ016QQcategoryZ7308QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Although is this what you really want to do? Have you slugged the barrel? what size is the grove diameter?
I assume you areusing a Winchester 1894 38-55. If so the barrel should be .378-.379 on the chamber end. Where you are having trouble chambering, may be due to the brass, not the boolit diameter. What is the length of your brass 2.130 or 2.080? 2.130 is the original length, and 2.080 is current production Winchester. I have a Winchester 38-55 made in 1980 which has the chamber cut for the current production 2.080, like yours does not want to chamber the long brass. I also have the magma mould you mention, and I size it to .379 for the Lever, size to .380 for H&R and Uberti High Wall. The High Wall uses 2.130 brass.

Check your gun and make sure you size the boolit to the barrel size, and use the right length brass. Making the boolit .375 for a .379 barrel would be a mistake.

Jon

[omgb]

Jon is 100% correct. Factory jacket bullets are .375 but jacketed bullets are not all that particular about bore to bullet fit. Cast is a whole 'nuther ball game as we say in the states. If your barrel slugs at .377 or .378 then you have to go .001-.002 over bore for accurate rounds.

The larger lead bullets will fit in the tighter neck but for all to work out you must do the following:

1. anneal the case necks. Hold the case in the middle and rotate the neck in the flame of an ordinary house candle until the case is too hot to touch. Quench quickly in cold water. This will soften the necks and make bullet seating easier. Trust me, the candle will do the job.

2. Chamfer all of the case mouths.

3. Get a Lee universal neck expander die and set it to just slightly open the case mouth so that bullets can be started by finger presure.

4. For best finishing, I use a Lee factory crimp die. It really irons out any slight bulges and helps set the neck tension perfectly.

As mentioned before, be sure you have the modern length cases and not the older longer one.

I know they have loads of 30-30s in OZ, suitable 38-55 cases can be made by loading a small 10 grain charge of a unique and some tissue wadding into a 30-30 case. fire this and you get a pretty good 38-55 case.

[JakeOz]

I have just picked up a 38-55 1894 Win today that exhibits the same problem ie the last bit is awkward, but I only found out about 15 minutes ago that there are 2 lengths of cases.

The one I got is about 1916 vintage and the others mentioned are Oliver F's I believe.

The gent I spoke to originally slugged his barrel and it comes out at approx .373", but may very well be using the long brass. It is also a concern about the crimp.
I chambered a round today (I don't have any brass or dies yet, so had to borrow a round) and noticed that there was a bulge at the crimp point. There was also a nice shiny ring on the round when it was ejected to indicate a slightly larger than should be case mouth at the crimp.

I am unable to verify any of his rounds as I was not taking notice of what was happening at this particular shoot and only discussed it over the 'phone a couple of days later. My biggest problem is one of distance. He is approx 4-5 hrs away, so I may have to get him to see if he can check his chamber length and maybe adjust case lengths accordingly.

I knew I came to the right place to get info.[smilie=w:

I will investigate a little further.

Thanks thus far.

Regards