Old Small Mills

[Casting Timmy]

I was thinking about saving up and trying to find a Atlas Horizontal Mill, has anyone had experience with these machines?

The machine really interests me as I don't have a lot of room and it seems like it could do some heavier cuts than a current mill/drill.

I know a Bridgeport vertical machine would just a little more, but I don;t have the room and I think that eventually if I want a larger machine having the Atlas around could still prove useful.

[semtav]

I've got two. One completely disassembled, cleaned and ready for assy. the second one is sitting there in case I forget how the first one goes together. Unfortunately, I've never used one yet. Very nice size, and the possibilities are only limited by ones imagination.

[Suo Gan]

I was thinking about saving up and trying to find a Atlas Horizontal Mill, has anyone had experience with these machines?

The machine really interests me as I don't have a lot of room and it seems like it could do some heavier cuts than a current mill/drill.

I know a Bridgeport vertical machine would just a little more, but I don;t have the room and I think that eventually if I want a larger machine having the Atlas around could still prove useful.

I have a small mill for sale if you are interested. About half the size of a Bridgeport. Made in W. Germany, do not recall the name at the moment.

[Ed K]

Look at the Hardinge horizontals. Mine has a Bridgeport vertical head for dual capability.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f20/28716d1291428960-hardinge-tm-mill-funny-story-2.jpg

http://www.interplantsales.com/images/140/Hardinge%20Mill%20Bridgport%20Head/DSCF5756.JPG

[Bret4207]

If you do get the Atlas, Home Shop Machinist has an ad for a video series by Rudy Korpack (sp, I'm sure) where he rebuilds and uses an Atlas. The little bit I saw looked great!

[KCSO]

The Atlas is a good small mill for the home shop but is limited by it's design. To do some jobs like say cutting a dovetail in a rifle barrel you need to be creative in your setups. The power feed does give a niice finish though. I had two of the little buggers and ended up selling them and getting a biigger mill drill combo unit from Smithy. IF i had the room and the floor joists I would sure like a Bridgeport style machine but...

Get on the Atlas users forum and you will get all the info you need.

[Casting Timmy]

That's a nice looking Hardinge, how much do those machines run typically?

Anyone mind sharing how much they paid for or sold their Atlas milling machines for? So far it seems like these can run from a couple hundred to a thousand dollars.

[Suo Gan]

Timmy, My best advice to you would be to wait for a machine shop closing its doors and buy a unit at auction. If you wait for a good deal you could find a nice machine for around a thousand bucks as I have seen even nice shape Bridgeports go for five or six hundred and sometimes upwards of two grand depending on the sale of course. You will need to have a forklift to move it at the sale (usually) and when you take it off the trailer at home. A small unit can be moved with a cherry picker and come alongs, but it is time consuming, dangerous for you, and you could drop the machine. The industrial machines are usually not set up for 220 and you will need to factor a conversion over into your costs. I have bought mills for less than a homeowner would pay for a large drill press at Harbour Freight. Good deals come to those who wait, don't get in a war with another bone head. If you have a machinist buddy have him come along to check the machine out before the bidding starts. An industrial unit will be much better built than any homeowner or light grade machine and they will cost about the same. Just my two pennies.

Ed, I like your vertical attachment!

[Ed K]

The Hardinge mills have their quirks and I'm not going to be milling any cylinder heads for a big block Chevy but for a home hobbyist with limited space (hardly any larger than a Chinese mill-drill) they do have a few plusses. You can appreciate the scale of it in the first picture next to the vehicle.

The Hardinge advantage seems to lie in the versatility of the dual capability and the fact that it is every bit the quality and precision of a Bridgeport albeit possessing a much smaller work envelope. For me messing with handguns and rifle receivers that does not pose any big issue but for a general machine shop it probably is a bit of a toy. A disadvantage is that switching from horizontal to vertical is time a bit consuming to tram the head but that's the price you pay. Another is that the vertical head has no quill - you must raise the knee. You can get an M-head to solve that but mine came with the older H-head as in the 2nd picture.

They can go for big money on ebay but when they are sold locally and hardly anyone knows of them they typically go cheap. That was the case with mine: well-tooled with power feed and Bridgeport head and advertised in Craigs' list for the "large drill press at Harbour Freight" price.

[W.R.Buchanan]

+1 on the Hardinge ! I've had a Clausing and I rebuilt it and it was nice but it was still nearly useless because of the lack of rigidity. The Hardinge is a much more rigid machine and as a result you will learn much faster on it. I sold that machine for $2000, it looked nice, and the company really wanted it!

Learning to be a machinist while running junk is not a very good way to do it. I did it and when I got to run good stuff I was a better machinist, but I would have been alot better if I just started on good machinery. After you know how to run machines, then you can run junk and actually make it work. But it's no way to learn, and trying to "make do" is counter productive to learning..

Another good thing about Hardinge machinery is that seldom is it really worn out. It responds well to being taken apart cleaned and resassembled.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi,
Good points Randy, as usual! FWIW,I would suggest going on up to a full blown Bridgeport. I bought mine from a Machine Shop using it for one off jobs and the owner wanted to sale it to make room for another $200,000 CNC mill! Although not in pristine condition,it was in good working condition and after clean up has worked very well for me and will serve me well for years and has probably already increased in value. It has a 36 in table instead of a 48in. and is perfect for a home shop. Oh yes I paid $2000 and the owner loaded it for me! Just a thought as alot of shops are going to CNC or unfortunatly closing and these BP are more available now. I would go to Practical Machinist and put in a request at the buy sale site and ask if anyone knows of a mill in your area. Thats what I did and a guy told me about my mill and he lived in Kentucky. I'm in Fla.! Go figure! Here is a pc of a BP with a 32 in table!

[thehouseproduct]

A lot of custom bicycle frame builders use the horizontal mills for mitering tubes.

[Bret4207]

A lot of custom bicycle frame builders use the horizontal mills for mitering tubes.

The things you learn here. I never had the foggiest notion custom bicycle frame builders even existed!

[JIMinPHX]

When buying small mills, be aware of what kind of taper they have in the spindle. If it has an R-8 spindle, then any Bridgeport tooling should fit in it & that stuff can be found anywhere. If the spindle has a tangless Morse Taper (like many Clausings), then the tool holders will have a tendency to bind up when a tool is pushed hard & tooling will be hard to find & expensive. If it has a B&S taper or something else that is exotic, expect trouble finding tooling & expect to pay through the nose when you do find it. If you find a mill with a NS 40 or Cat 40 spindle, that will be even stronger than the R-8 that is normally found in a Bridgeport & tooling availability will be good, but you will not likely find that on anything smaller than a Bridgeport. NS 30 taper is somewhat available & works very well, but is a little pricey.

[dragonrider]

Small horizontal mills have their place and I could use one upon occaision, but a Bridgeport is a far more versitile machine for a home shop. If this would be your first mill don't waste your money on a small horizontal, find a Bridgeport.

[theperfessor]

+1 to dragonrider's comments. I acquired a small Rockwell horizontal a few months ago just for a specific purpose. I've had a BP clone (ENCO 10 x 54) for years and use it for almost everything. Much more versatile if its the only one you have.

[Casting Timmy]

I wouldn't mind a Bridgeport, but I don;t have the room for it. I have noticed that some people talk about converting their mills if possible over to R8 from some of the tapers. The Atlas mills are a MT2, I've found websites for tooling on MT2 and the BS9 tapers used on the old Sheldons.

[JIMinPHX]

US Burke (Millrite), Clausing, Rockwell & a few others have made smaller versions of a Bridgeport type mill. Many of them run on single phase power. They might be worth considering. Some even have R-8 spindles in them.

[bob208]

i started out with a clausing 8520 it did a lot of work i did keep it after i bought a new enco mill.

[uscra112]

US Burke (Millrite), Clausing, Rockwell & a few others have made smaller versions of a Bridgeport type mill. Many of them run on single phase power. They might be worth considering. Some even have R-8 spindles in them.

Quite some years ago when I was still building race bikes I had a Millrite. I never felt under-equipped. They are a little smaller and lighter than a B'Port, and can be had for modest cost. Mine has an R-8 spindle, but it was 3-phase, so I ran an old motor as a converter. I saw one go on eBay for just $600 a coupla years ago. I get by right now with a Harbor Freight glorified drillpress, but if I could afford one and had the space, I'd go find another Millrite. But I do have an Atlas horizontal mill, and an Atlas shaper, too, so I'm not totally dependent on the vertical mill.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jim in PX: I agree about the exotic tooling, it is a pain. Hardinge does make virtually every collet known to man, but the weird ones can be a little pricey. That Clausing I had would seize the collet in a heartbeat if you tightened the drawbar too tight. Add a little vibrations to seat it and you were looking at beating the drawbar with a significant chunk of wood to free it. The Morse and B&S tapers both do the same thing.. They belong in a lathe tailstock and no where else. Both were bad solutions to the same problem.



I compeltely dissassembled that machine cleaned everything painted it and put it back together. It was in perfect shape, but still isn't even as good and a worn out Bridgeport. It would just fit in a smaller space. I paid $700 for it and sold it for $2000. I probvably had 30 hours in it.

Randy

[Casting Timmy]

Quite some years ago when I was still building race bikes I had a Millrite. I never felt under-equipped. They are a little smaller and lighter than a B'Port, and can be had for modest cost. Mine has an R-8 spindle, but it was 3-phase, so I ran an old motor as a converter. I saw one go on eBay for just $600 a coupla years ago. I get by right now with a Harbor Freight glorified drillpress, but if I could afford one and had the space, I'd go find another Millrite. But I do have an Atlas horizontal mill, and an Atlas shaper, too, so I'm not totally dependent on the vertical mill.


So how do you like your atlas mill? Is it more stable than the mill drill from harbor freight? I do really like the sizes of the machines.

[Dutchman]

If it has a B&S taper or something else that is exotic, expect trouble finding tooling & expect to pay through the nose when you do find it.


My Index Model 40H has a No.9 Brown & Sharp spindle. It's not exotic but it is obsolete. However there are now Chinese-made 9BS and 7BS collets for about $20 each.

No.7 BS collet 11 piece set $86 new.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Brown-Sharpe-Taper-Collet-7pc-Set-1-8-1-2-NEW-/350496530146?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item519b389ee2

1/2" new 9BS collet $19.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-S-Brown-Sharpe-7-Taper-Round-Collet-1-2-Inch-New-/350452114896?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item519892e5d0

I have a Y collet holder that takes from 1/8" to 1/2" Y collets. I'm going to buy a new 5/8" and 3/4" 9BS collet to replace the ancient ones I now have. $28 for two new 9BS collets.

Wells-Index in Michigan will grind out a 9BS spindle to R8 for $265 but I've never found the need.

Just as a shooter who has vintage firearms hunts for brass or ammo the home shop machinist hunts 9BS and 7BS milling cutters, 7 to 9BS adapter, 2MT to 9BS adapter, fly cutter, Y collet chucks, Weldon end mill holder, etc etc etc. This was the benefit of living in SoCal in a used tooling rich environment in the 1980s.

http://images57.fotki.com/v256/photos/2/28344/474753/DSCF9437-vi.jpg

Weighs 1,200 lbs. Not a bench mill but a great home shop vertical mill. Purchased new by Douglas Aircraft to build aircraft for the U.S. Navy in 1942. I can hear the Star Spangled Banner every time I turn it on :mrgreen:.

You would be foolish to pass up such a machine just because of the 9BS spindle. It's really a non-issue in my near 30 years of living with this one.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/blankbuxton/

http://images19.fotki.com/v33/photos/2/28344/474753/m6-vi.jpg