Aluminum VS Steel molds?

[stealthshooter]

I had planned on getting a Lee Aluminum mold to start out with mostly due to the cost. I spoke with my uncle about it yesterday and he told me to go with a good steel mold due to the fact Aluminum will expand and retract quite a bit when the temp changes and I could possibly run into bullets of dif weight and diam because of this.

Have any of you had this problem? Money is a bit tight right now and I'd hate to spend a bunch on a mold just to find out it wasn't for me. I know I could probably sell it easy enough but there is still the problem with coming up with the money to begin with.

Any thoughts?

[birdadly]

<----no personal experience yet so I offer no hard evidence or facts... but from reading here I don't think there's any reason to shy away from Aluminum molds. Two big custom mould makers here use Aluminum for many moulds and people seem to love them. I also read many good things about the cheaper Lee Aluminum moulds when on a budget.

I actually just got my first Aluminum mould, from Miha, in the mail today, so will be trying it out tonight I hope! Giddy up and good luck! -Brad

[btroj]

I don't think the expansion and contraction of Al is a factor at all. Way too many Al moulds in use to have this be a problem- somebody would have noticed it by now.
How much experience does your uncle have with casting and shooting cast bullets? This sure sounds like the kind of thing a person with minimal knowledge would say- and I don't mean to sound like I am flaming your uncle. Way too many cast experts out there who don't seem to shoot them.

Al or iron or brass is largely a personal choice. They all work quite well. I shop more by bullet design that I do mould material.

[geargnasher]

Got news for you, steel moulds will expand and contract considerably too, most noticeably in the larger caliber two-cavity versions. The key is to keep your alloy temperature consistent, and keep your casting rhythm consistent throughout a session so the mould temperature is constant and boolit fillout/size is also consistent, that applies to ANY mould material. Not a thing wrong with aluminum or steel moulds as long as they are taken care of and used properly.

Gear

[jcwit]

I doubt the expansion/retraction factor is of any consequense, no more so than alu. pistons in a cast iron block is.

[stealthshooter]

My Uncle has been casting for well over 30 years. He's an old timer and you know how they can be sometimes....stuck in their ways. That's why I figured I'd ask here. I really wasn't sure one way or the other.

[btroj]

Ahh yes, the "that isn't what they used to be made of" route. Luckily I don't get that from my FIL even though he is 73 and has been casting since before lead was formed via radioactive decomposition.

Ear made a couple great points. Casting rhythm and caring for your moulds are far more important than what they are made from.

[jcwit]

I have a number of iron/steel molds, mostly from Lyman, taken care of they cast great and will longer than I will.

I have an equal number of Alu. molds, mostly from Lee, taken care of they cast great and will last longer than I will.

Take your pick and spend your cash.

[williamwaco]

I have been casting over 50 years. I turned up my nose at aluminum molds for years. About a year ago I bought a Lee six cavity and I can only say that I was shocked. It doesn't really look like high quality until you open it. The fit and finish of the cavities is better than any mass market steel mold I have ever owned. In most cases, you need a magnifier to see the seam ( in the bullet ) where the mold closes.

Expansion is a non issue. All molds expand when they get hot. The question is not how much it expands but is the cavity the right diameter when it is hot to produce the bullet size you want. All my Lee molds produce bullets of exactly the correct diameter. e.g. I have two .357 magnum molds of six cavities each. They both drop bullets of .359 / .360 +/- about half a thousandths.

I now own six, ( 6 ) Lee six cavity molds and will probabably never buy anything else unless I want a design that is not available from Lee.

Finally, many of the finest custom bullet mold makers in the world use nothing but aluminum blocks. I do not own one of these molds but they get RAVE reviews from the people who do own them.

That said. These comments do not appply to the Lee 2 cavity molds. They cast excellent bullets but are very delecate, and wear out very quickly. I have bought 4 of them. They were all falling apart before reaching 2,000 bullets each.

[stealthshooter]

He's going to be the one showing me how to cast once I get my stuff. I may have to tell him my wife bought it for me LOL. He has his own private range that has targets out to 700 yards. I once saw a group he had shot with his 7x57 and some 170 grain bullets he had cast up. It was a five shot group at 700 yards that measured 5" it was at that point I started thinking more about casting my own.

[williamwaco]

He's going to be the one showing me how to cast once I get my stuff.

Please forget all my prior comments.

BLOOD is thicker than water.

You better get what your uncle wants you to. Especially if he owns his own private 700 yard shooting range.

Go over to the buying and selling forum, I believe this link will get you there.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18


Post a WTB ( wanted to buy ) advertisement for a used mold in the caliber and design you need.

[btroj]

Like Wilkiamwqco said, I was a bit put off by Lee mounds at first. Once I tried one of their 6 cav mounds I was hooked. Lots of bullets, and fast. Well made, easy to use, nice sprue cutter design.

Like I said- I shop much more based upon bullet design and what I plan to use it for than I do mould material or builder. I will say that NOE makes as nice an Al mould as you could ever ask for.

[Sonnypie]

Yeah, well I've been casting for.... 2 months now???and... :roll:
:kidding:

Hey, Uncle Carbuncle just wants you to get off on the right foot.
I don't think a family feud is worth Aluminium Vs: Steel debate. :groner:
Want to take full advantage of Uncle's experience and skills?
Buy you some guns in Uncle's calibers. ;) :!:
Now you would be using your noodle. You get some new pop sticks. Uncle gets a smile. And.... you stand a good chance of Uncle handing down some equipment.
Work smarter, not harder.

I have my drool factor aimed at a brass mold next. YMMV.

I'm doing great with the 3 boolit molds I currently have. All Lee, all aluminium, and fun!
If ignorance is bliss, I'm about as happy as a hog in the corn crib.
Now go gun shoppin... [smilie=1:

[stealthshooter]

My Uncle isn't the type of guy that would really care what mold I end up with. He was just telling me what he would get mostly. He knows about being strapped for cash! He's a lumber yard owner and this economy has hit him as well.

[Southron Sanders]

For the record, Lyman and most other commercial makers of "Steel" moulds actually make them out of a SOFT IRON, not steel!

[bobthenailer]

As a rule i prefer iron , i have 3 custom moulds that are aluminum made by LBT and Mountain moulds that are excellent ! ive had a few lee 2 cavity and IMO ther a pain to use campaired to iron. I also have 2 lee 6 cavity moulds they do work better than the 2 cavity lee's but required a few hours of tinkering with venting, mould & pot temp & distance from the spout to the sprue plate to make good bullets every time without approx 50% rejection rate . as i want perfect bullets every time or as close as possible
.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Molds are or have been made out of iron, aluminum, brass and probably a few other things and all have produced good quality bullets that have shot well. Some molds seem to have "personalities" and you have to learn their ways and idiosyncrasies (kind of like women) and if you want to have a good relationship you have to focus on.....well several factors. Expansion and contraction are not in the equation, but it is a fact that aluminum will shed heat quicker than iron so you have to make some adjustment in heat and rhythm when casting. Although softer than iron Alu does not rust, but you have to be a bit more careful not to ding or scratch it. Current vendors on this forum are producing excellent quality molds out of Alu and brass that are as good as any iron mold made and many users are extremely satisfied with the casts that they are producing. If treated right they will last a long time. LLS

[cajun shooter]

Out of all the mould makers that offer aluminum moulds,not one of them use it because it is the best metal. It is cheaper in several different strengths and is easy to cut. Aluminum has several grades and the cheaper grades do have a limited life span. Lee is one company that uses the lesser grades available.
I have found that brass moulds such as those offered by Accurate Moulds cost the same as the better grades of aluminum but are much easier to cast with and drop great bullets from the first filling. The weight of the mould is heavier but if you use your head and use a rest it is no different than the others.

[mdi]

I believe that aluminum may expand more than iron, but, the mold is heated to casting temp and has "expanded". Once it has reached this "state" all expansion/contraction has ceased, for all intents and purposes. All boolits cast from the mold at this point should be the same, as long as the temp is stable...

[Marlin Junky]

Go ahead and buy the Lee mold in order to get started but remember that aluminum has roughly twice the specific heat of ferrous metals. What this means in a practical sense is, when you break your casting rhythm while using an aluminum mold, (vs. a ferrous or brass mold) expect to cast a different weight boolit on the next cast because your mold temp will have likely changed. How much different depends on the mass of the mold, the mass of the boolit being casted, the temperature of the mold, the temperature of the melt and the rate at which the metal enters the mold. What makes the Lee mold "easy to use" (as the manufacturer claims) is the fact there's way less mass than an RCBS/SAECO mold, therefore it heats up faster. On the same token, it also cools way faster too. The manufacturer suggests using a coat of carbon inside the cavities (to retard heat escape from the cavities); however, if the mold is actually at a reasonable operating temperature (about 400F), that's unnecessary. If you are going to start out with a 6-cavity Lee mold, I would recommend preheating it with an electric hot plate. In contrast, the tiny 2-cavity molds will preheat OK on the surface of your electric furnace... assuming that's how you plan to melt your alloy. One last bit of advice... don't forget to correctly lubricate the sprue plate.

MJ

[stealthshooter]

I think that's pretty much what my Uncle was getting at! The heat will transfer much faster with the Aluminum. I think I have decided to go ahead and get a Brass mold. What is the propper way to lube the sprue plate?

[Marlin Junky]

What is the propper way to lube the sprue plate?

In a nutshell... with a trace of oil applied to the underside of a hot sprue plate with a cotton swab before the first cast. After the mold is at operating temperature, and the bases are filling out tightly, you can apply a trace of oil to the top of the mold block. Always wipe the mold surfaces dry with a clean swab after the oil has been applied. What you're trying to accomplish is create a dry film that adheres to the hot metal.

Best oil I've found so far is Bullplate. If you can't find that, try Stihl HP which is a fully synthetic 2-stroke oil that works OK but I think it's too thin. Use the search functions to find other choices. I understand brake caliper lube may work and it can be found at auto parts stores.

MJ

P.S. I'm not trying to talk you out of aluminum molds, just make you aware of their attributes. I have a very nice aluminum mold cut by Accurate Molds. Tom at Accurate will cut a nice 2-C mold in an oversized block for around 100 bucks that you'll have forever given reasonable care. Brass has it's negatives too. My favorite blocks are those RCBS and SAECO uses; however, good luck getting a custom mold maker to cut those babies. I think RCBS will sell you uncut blocks but you'll need to find someone willing to cut the cavities and not screw up your blocks or their tools. Brass is a good compromise but 360 may warp... it's a jungle.