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View Full Version : Buckshot - It was the handles!



Wayne Smith
06-12-2005, 02:14 PM
This post takes a little introduction, but I thought it was time Buckshot and I made this public.

For those of you who have remembered my posts, you know that a 41 Long Colt is a current project. This cartridge uses a heeled bullet, like a .22, the outside diameter of the bullet is the outside diameter of the cartridge rather than the bullet fitting all inside the case as we are accustomed. I bought a mold (NEI) thinking from what I had read that it was problematic, and sure enough, the 'heel' was 2/3 of the length of the bullet. Not good, there's not enough bearing surface to shoot correctly.

However, I had just been reading Buckshot's post about re-cutting a mold, so I PM'ed him to see if he could re-cut this one to make an appropriate heel, 1/4 or less of the length of the bullet. He opined that he was willing to give it a try, with no promises. I was fine with that, as the mold was a dead loss as it was. He did it, cut it a little large, so he made me a sizing die to size them appropriately, and sent some he cast with the mold blocks and sizing die.

I noticed some were requiring more sizing than others, and the ones requiring more sizing were too big in the heel to fit in the cases. (.386" inside the case, some of them were coming out .395") I wondered if the two cavities were the same, so I mounted the blocks on my Lyman Large handles and cast some up, separating the two cavities. Sure enough, the outside cavity was making the larger bullet. I PM'ed him about this yesterday, and then took a good look at my handles. I noticed that the blocks were sometimes showing light all the way through when closed, and I knew that wasn't right, and the handles were very loose, allowing each block to tilt.

I just mounted the blocks on my RCBS handles, they close completely. I made up some bullets, and the ones from the outside cavity could fit in my cases, although a couple were slightly large. Not nearly as large as previously, but a tight fit in the expanded cases.

Buckshot, I'm thinking it was my handles that made the difference. There may be a very slight variation between the cavities, but not nearly as much as I said.

Your offer of a pliers type sizer is interesting. If Lee won't make a Factory Crinp die for this that's the only way to crimp the cases once bulleted. Say a .385" hole in something like an electrician's wire striping plier, probably inside the hinge pin. Lee has once rejected a bulleted case to make their Factory Crimp die, saying the case was too short. That's bull, as the case is just over 1" long (1.066" to be exact) and they make a die for the .25ACP. I'm thinking about trying again, with a somewhat stronger letter.

Anyway, the good news is that I've got two good cavities after all, and I need to work on my Lyman handles.

How does one tighten them, anyway?

9.3X62AL
06-13-2005, 12:20 AM
Wayne--

NEI molds are designed to be used with RCBS handles, and NEI has come up with a stabilizer they fit to RCBS handles that does away with the block wobble seen with the stock handles.

Buckshot
06-13-2005, 02:20 AM
.............Wayne, whew! Thought I'd really screwed up. BTW, I used Lee 6 cavity handles on your NEI blocks to cast up the ones I did. Seemed to fit really well too. BTW, you mentioned the slugs falling through the chamber mouths, or going through without much effort. You can easily open that size die up a few thou with maybe 5-10 minutes work. Check out the proceedure on Castpics.

I'd maybe start with 320 grit to start and finish with 400. Have some lubed 'as cast' slugs to try, every few minutes of work.

...............Buckshot

Wayne Smith
06-13-2005, 07:02 AM
I'm not sure, but I think it's bored through. If it's not, it's a slight taper, there's no step. It's a tight squeeze loading the rounds as it is, I really don't think I want them bigger.

Thanks, Al. I'll have to check that out. Is it on their website or do I need to call?

Wayne Smith
06-14-2005, 10:38 AM
I loaded 49 of them yesterday (3 were too big in the heel to finger seat) and I think there is probably a thousandth or two difference between the cavities. I think that's WNL (Within Normal Limits). I probably wouldn't have noiced if I wasn't finger seating the bullets, but some went in very easy and some I could just barely push in, and the three I couldn't get in.

All in all, not bad. I think I'll have to refine my technique, check if holding the handles tightly together makes a difference. It's amazing what you notice when you finger seat your bullets! I've only done this before with a 45-70, and that is a single cavity mold.

Buckshot
06-15-2005, 02:12 AM
.............Wayne, I just hope they shoot better. That was the whole point of the excersize :lol:

............Buckshot

9.3X62AL
06-15-2005, 10:14 AM
The text about the modified RCBS handles is on the website, www.neihandtools.com

Wayne Smith
06-15-2005, 10:27 AM
Thanks, Al. Found it. 50 bucks for handles! Not sure I want to find out if they are worth it!

felix
06-15-2005, 11:57 AM
Personally, I just lay the mold on a board before closing. That aligns the halves plenty good enough for me, and then close gently. Besides, I need the hand rest between drops, anyway. Goes slower, but slightly longer for the same amount of boolits. ... felix

9.3X62AL
06-16-2005, 04:46 PM
Wayne et al--

I came to the same conclusion. The "stock" RCBS handles have done well with my NEI molds, and mindful that they are aluminum AND that they are precision tools--I go slowly and gently with them, and all is well. Speed is not a requirement for me with boolits getting used in lever rifles--they aren't belt-fed, after all. A four- or six-cavity block answers for auto pistol castings, in my world.

Wayne Smith
06-17-2005, 07:40 AM
When looking for NEI a search came up with a link to an article from the Cast Bullet Society (Association?) about Walt's wasp waisted bullets - that's an interesting design! He was very complimentary about the handles, but then he probably got his free!