Stolzer and Sons

[Tatume]

Hello Folks,

I'm impressed with the E. Wesson-designed rifles built by Colin Stolzer. Do any of you own one, or know anything about them? I like the appearance, and would like to know what level of accuracy people are getting.

http://www.freewebs.com/stolzergunsmithing/

Take care, Tom

[Naphtali]

Tangentially, I am a member of muzzleloading forums. Member comments on the quality of Stolzer craftsmanship have been uniformly favorable.

Hope this helps.

[Tatume]

It does, thank you.

[ChrisPer]

Stolzer has posted progress stories on some of his builds on his own website, on www.homegunsmith.com black powder forum, and on www.nitroexpress.com blackpowder forum.

They are great reads - and the guns look top quality.

[Tatume]

Thanks Chris. It was on NitroExpress that I first heard of him. I'll take a look at Homegunsmith.

[Groundhawg]

Just got my long awaited WESSON Boxlock last week from Colin ...
honestly not real happy with fit n finish of it.

link here for pics.
http://shootingpouch.blogspot.com/

[waksupi]

Just got my long awaited WESSON Boxlock last week from Colin ...
honestly not real happy with fit n finish of it.

link here for pics.
http://shootingpouch.blogspot.com/

Please be more specific. We like to know about any quality control problems with any vendor. I do see you are pretty new here, and we have had people with grudges chase people around the web. I would like to know your difficulty, preferably with some good pictures. If there is any question as to quality, we will let the vendor come in to state his case. I am not doubting you at all, but we do like to be fair to everyone.

[Groundhawg]

Excuse me Waksupi ... but I am chasing nobody. A friend in Oregon sent me this link earlier
and I decided to add my own input to the question about WESSON rifles.
I may be new here but I am not NEW too firearms or BLACKPOWDER.
I am the former owner of Black Powder Times and had to step down after my Horrible Accident 2 1/2 years ago.
I am the "FRIEND" Colin Stolzer just finished the 45 cal E WESSON BOXLOCK for last week.
I posted a link to the pictures of the rifle and the issues with poor fitment and finish.
I paid over 900 dollars cash for the rifle and I supplied the barrel from my own inventory.
THE FACT IS COLIN HAD ME AND MANY OTHERS FOOLED ...
I am not happy with the looks of the rifle and the level of craftsmanship it shows.
cannot be any more HONEST as that.
Good day

[FrankG]

Please be more specific. We like to know about any quality control problems with any vendor. I do see you are pretty new here, and we have had people with grudges chase people around the web. I would like to know your difficulty, preferably with some good pictures. If there is any question as to quality, we will let the vendor come in to state his case. I am not doubting you at all, but we do like to be fair to everyone.

Not my gun , but I went and looked at link provided above and would be ticked too if the builder wouldnt make it right.

Lots of pics of poor attempt of repair to fitting and damage of stock by trigger guard.

from above posted site :

Review of Colin Stolzer the Gunsmith
I dealt with Colin Stolzer the Gunsmith over the course of the last two years
on a contract build of a 45 caliber Edwin Wesson Boxlock Muzzle Loader.
Supplied my own new vintage barrel with xtra deep rifling for the build last year.
Contract stated he could take upwards of two years to complete.
Back in December of 2010 I was informed buy email I was number three on his build list. Number one done shortly there after and number two build delayed because the barrel was back ordered for like a year.
Moved me right up to top of the list now don't it ...
and I waited and waited ...
no real pictures of anything going on till a few months ago ... finally.
Watching other forums as he worked on other guns and projects too.
Friends sending me links and copies of posts of the other stuff he was doing.
Unboxed the gun last week ... and was immediately upset by the workmanship that was seen in the finished product.
Dwelled on it night after night and waited for Colin to email or call ... following up
on this "SPECIAL BUILD" he did for his friend in Maryland.
nothing
I contacted Colin Stolzer after waiting past what I thought to be a reasonable amount of time to express my feelings about the over all quality of the build.
After too much discussion and aggravation he did ask me what I wanted.
TOLD HIM I WANTED A QUALITY BUILT RIFLE TO REPLACE THE *** HE SENT.
HE REFUSED... AND OFFERED A REFUND LESS THAN THE SUM OF ALL PARTS AND COSTS IN THE BUILD.
100 DOLLARS towards my barrel that was used. a new 45 rb barrel with deep rifling ... that I did purchase years ago in a bulk buy. Two of the barrels went on
free guns for young shooters and two went into my possesion.
TODAY IT WOULD COST ME OVER 150 DOLLARS TO REPLACE !
Notihing wrong with my wanting the rifle I contracted him to build ...
and I honestly do not trust him at all anymore after trying to discuss it yesterday as I watched him lie and try to grasp at straws to build a defense.
If you got a SUPER BUY on a 92 inch plasma WARP DRIVE flat screen TV with UTRA SOUND SPEAKERS for 450 bucks ... and it got delivered not working in the box... you do not want your money back. YOU WANT THE TV YOU GOT A DEAL ON. ~fact~
Now I am sure stories will be told and tales will be spun ... and anything that can be said will be said now ... in order to defend Colin's reputation that he helped spin and build by his own self promotion all over the internet.
and HONESTLY I DO NOT CARE.
I know the truth and I can live with that now ...
What Mr Stolzer should do is set his tools down ... and figure out what drove him to the point that he could in any way be happy sending out that rifle to me ... finished in that condition.
Clearly not the work of a man that cared or by the hands of a master.
HE SHOULD BUILD A COMPLETE REPLACEMENT RIFLE AND MAKE GOOD HIS CONTRACT AND THE "SPECIAL BUILD" HE WAS DOING FOR HIS FRIEND.
Instead I will hear further lies and yarns , spun by people who have no business being involved.
fact is Colin was paid in full for the rifle he said he would build and he delivered
sub standard wares.
For decades now I promoted TRADITIONAL MUZZLE LOADING and have given away rifles and gear and money to help promote young shooters and keep the garden growing.
Watching now as GREED and lies tear it apart.
Fact is many people now involved in the sport and out heritage make me sick.
Fact is after seeing what he thought he could deliver as a custom rifle and his over all attitude ... I DO NOT TRUST COLIN TO SEND ME A CASH REFUND.
that is my side of this story and I am sticking to it.
Andy aka Groundhawg

[Groundhawg]

Fair would be me stating that this is the 2 nd rifle I have seen built by Colin and neither one
has given me any indication he is capable of the level of work he is trying to portray by all his posts/ threads on the internet.
I am a badly injured cripple dying more each day and honestly expected more from the last
rifle I was to hunt with.
Too ashamed to use it

[StolzerandSons]

My name is Colin Stolzer. I am the owner of Stolzer and Son's Gunsmithing.

I have offered Groundhawg AKA Andy a FULL REFUND including the cost of return shipping the rifle back to me.

He provided the Barrel for this Project and as part of the full Refund I offered to provide a NEW BARREL that exactly matched the specs of the one he provided made, or $100.00 compensation for the Barrel. To have a new barrel made to the same specs by my barrel maker would require 3-6 months.

I have spoken with the man who originally sold him the barrel he provided me. Here is the link to the original barrel: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=314020&filter=.45+Cal+Muzzleloading+barrel&catid=0
They are currently out of stock of an exact replacement barrel, but as you can see from the purchase price $65.95 plus shipping....$100.00 would be just compensation.

I believe that a Full Refund Plus Compensation for the Barrel and the cost of return shipping is the same or more than any company would offer.

At this point all he has to do is return the rifle to me and I will have a bank Cashiers check made out to him and sent.

If anyone would like to see the whole story not the one sided story provided at his Private Blog(where I obviously have no way to make a public response to his accusations) please email me at stolzerandsons@gmail.com and I will provide all of the emails, scans of the original signed contract, receipts of shipping costs, etc....then you can judge for yourself the whole(unedited) version of our interactions.

At this point the ball is in his court, I have offered a full refund plus compensation, all he has to do is return the rifle.

Colin Stolzer - Owner Stolzer and Son's Gunsmithing
stolzergunsmithing.webs.com

[StolzerandSons]

Fair would be me stating that this is the 2 nd rifle I have seen built by Colin and neither one
has given me any indication he is capable of the level of work he is trying to portray by all his posts/ threads on the internet.
I am a badly injured cripple dying more each day and honestly expected more from the last
rifle I was to hunt with.
Too ashamed to use it
The first rifle that he is referring to was a youth rifle that I donated, it was shipped to Andy(Groundhawg) and then forwarded on to the young man who received it with other donations from other craftsman. After having held one of my rifles in his hands and being able to examine and evaluate it, why if the quality or craftsmanship was not of the level he expected would he order a Rifle from me to begin with??

[Groundhawg]

trying to answer that one myself ...
why did I even contract the build with him.
I know better now and it cost me over 1000 dollars to find out.
Consider my mistake to be a lesson and warning to all.
When I die the unsigned rifle will be for sale ...
which may be in the near future folks.
take care

[Hang Fire]

Just got my long awaited WESSON Boxlock last week from Colin ...
honestly not real happy with fit n finish of it.

link here for pics.
http://shootingpouch.blogspot.com/


About ten years ago I went through similar nonsense on a high priced flintlock ML with supposedly fitted rifle and shotgun barrels. Evident upon receipt the gun was screwed up as Hogan's goat, with not one, but several major faults.

Took some time, many emails, and was not until I made up a web page with detailed photos showing all the faults and started posting links to said page from muzzleloading sites that things came to milk and I got a full refund.

[Groundhawg]

http://shootingpouch.blogspot.com/

The Truth shall set you free

[BE Wild Willy]

At this point the ball is in his court, I have offered a full refund plus compensation, all he has to do is return the rifle.

Colin Stolzer - Owner Stolzer and Son's Gunsmithing
stolzergunsmithing.webs.com

I would take him up on his offer and get the refund. From what is sounds like, time is of the essense, try to get something else, and shoot while you can. Please keep us updated Groundhawg...

[Groundhawg]

thanks for the advice B W Willy ... Dug out another 45 I had put back.
Will use that for the time being.
The offer of a LESS THAN full refund is not an option ,
after he did less than full work.
Switched to smaller calibers to reduce any chance of increasing pain.
I have to be more careful of who I deal with from here on out ...
real careful.

[FrankG]

Seeing how the barrel was 'New old stock' , compensation for todays replacement value should be taken into consideration . For you to buy another of similar quality ,say a GM barrel are around $160 or so delivered.

[StolzerandSons]

FrankG,

As I stated in my earlier post, I'm offering to replace his barrel with a custom made barrel of the exact same specifications. The time frame to have that barrel made is 3-6 Months.

[Groundhawg]

Still wondering WHY the rifle cannot be delivered as promised.
Built to acceptable standards and no glue and sawdust used to cover voids/mistakes.
Finishes left undone or still wet and tacky weeks later.
Metal work left with dings and dents and deep filing marks , no attempt to sand down
or finish.
not hearing you defend the LEVEL OF CRAFTSMANSHIP of the rifle I have in my possession now.
AND ....... what right does colin have making me WAIT 3 to 6 months for a replacement barrel so he can save 60 bucks. May not be his time ... is surely is my time.
ANYBODY WITHIN DRIVING DISTANCE IS WELCOME TO STOP N SEE THE RIFLE.

[peter nap]

I hate these internet whizzing matches because it's always hard to tell who did what.

I can tell you that I did contact Mr. Stolzer by email and received a package that included emails (at least one completely wild eyed and irrational).

Plus an explanation of why the rifle was built the way it was and how it left his shop vs how it arrived at the customers.

The Customer admits in the first email that it had been dropped at least once by the carrier.

My feeling is that the offer of a refund is more than fair, but I really encourage anyone interested to contact Mr. Stolzer and get the package yourself.

[Groundhawg]

Tatume , my advice would be to first purchase the action yourself from Pete Allan
and have that in your possession , it is the key component.
Action has trouble free coil springs and offers good service.
Make sure to get one with proper breech threads...
then decide on the barrel and all ... may save your time to get your own barrel while they
are in stock.
Then find a competent gunsmith to put it together for you and specify NO GLUE OR SAWDUST

be used. I forgot that part.

[Groundhawg]

more than fair ?
less than has been put forth ...
no
nothing fair about that.
Box corner was crushed on shipping box
and foam was cracked ... FIREARM WAS FINE.
how does that explain wax used to fill gaps and rubbed down with the finish of the rifle ?
He can grasp at straws all he wants
Let what I have said , serve as a WARNING to my fellow shooters before doing business with
Colin Stolzer.
Take it or leave it ... for whatever it is worth
I do believe in one email I did call Colin a thick headed something or nuther ...
I was being NICE too.
I have the proof leaning over there against the desk ...
have not heard a single sentence from COLIN defending the finish of the rifle.
USPS AND UPS AND FEDEX damage alot of stuff ... wish they has this time.
BEYOND POSSIBLE REPAIR would have been nice.
whizzin match ... NO.
All goes back to ONE QUESTION : Why was glue and sawdust used to patch a void/hole in the mid grade walnut stock of a new custom built rifle for a friend/customer ?
think the truth has been told... think people will see ... give it time.

[smith54]

I would also like to submit a review of Stolzer and Sons Gunsmithing. I'm basically older than dirt and have dealt with quite a few custom gunsmiths over the years, many of whom you would not want as family members. I have never done business with a company that impressed me more than Stolzer's Gunsmithing. The workmanship is top notch and the ethical business conduct along with constant communication has been great. Colin finished a large project for me a few months back and I have 3 more on the dockett. This project has recieved wonderful reviews and was featured in well known gun magazines. I'm sure we have all read gun reviews when the gun tested was a "good value for the money". Reading between the lines--it was OK but not top notch. Colin's products are not a good value for the money, they are an exceptional value--period. Most customers would understand that "delivery times" in some cases can not be cast in stone. Things happen--problems with suppliers, family issues, illness, etc, all variables over which one has no control over most of the time. That is the nature of custom projects and any decent customer should understand this. There is no snake oil or cover up stuff and lies with Colin--I've dealt with enough of the same in the past--it does not exist with Stolzer Gunsmithing. I have gotten to know Colin quite well, and to cast aspersions on his business, in my opinion is shameful. I'm sure that 99.9% of the folks that have done business with him would agree that he conducts a quality business--very unfortunate that this individual with the .45 Wesson rifle feels as he does.

[FrankG]

FrankG,

As I stated in my earlier post, I'm offering to replace his barrel with a custom made barrel of the exact same specifications. The time frame to have that barrel made is 3-6 Months.

GM are a good barrel and no waitin an probally less $$ .Or a Charles Burton barrel in way less than 1/2 year wait .

[StolzerandSons]

Andy keeps repeating that my Refund offer is not FAIR, so I am going to go directly to his standard of FAIR and make an offer. Below is a Screen Shot taken from his blog where he states that he is out $1140.00.

So I will state right here and now for all to see and for it to be forever preserved on the internet.

$1140.00 plus $50.00 for return shipping(actual cost to ship to him was just over $33.00, I have the receipt)....$1140.00 plus $50.00 = $1190.00 USD

I'll will round it up to a nice even $1200.00 so that he has gas money to drive to the UPS office.

LET ME RESTATE THIS FOR ALL TO SEE, IF Andy RETURNS THE RIFLE TO ME I WILL SEND HIM MORE THAN HE IS CLAIMING HE IS OUT. A $1200.00 BANK CASHIERS CHECK WILL BE SENT TO HIM VIA REGISTERED MAIL(RETURN RECEIPT REQUIRED).

[FrankG]

Thats fair enough !

[StolzerandSons]

I'm going to save you the time Andy of sharing your email with everybody and do it for you.

Here is a screen shot of the email response to the $1200.00 refund offer.
Gentlemen and Ladies, I have been more than fair at this point and yet he seems to be not interested in a Complete Refund at more than his stated amount($1140.00). I could be wrong, but at this point it seems like he is more interested in continuing to try to smear me.

Groundhawg(Andy), I am asking you here so that all can see your response...Are you going to return the Rifle and accept the Refund offer?

[Trey45]

Ok, enough is enough, the offer to refund over and above perceived losses was refused, this thread is going to be locked. You two can take it to email, pm, or court, but as far as this forum is concerned it's over, you've both presented evidence, and a more than generous offer for refund was flatly refused. Good luck to you both. I strongly suggest that neither of you open another thread about this matter. Thanks, have a day.