Loading cast bullets for .38-55

[marvelshooter]

People,
New member here with first post. Nice site you have here. Lots of good deals in the swappin and sellin section. I am primarily a Bullseye shooter and I do cast my own .45 bullets. I have an old Winchester .38-55 that I inherited from my Dad. I finally got around to loading up a cast bullet for it to shoot it for the first time in at least 50 years. I bought some 250gr flat nosed bullets that were sized .378 and loaded them over 10gr of Unique. Now I am not expecting a lot from a 110 plus year old gun but half of my shots key holed at 25 yards. So I thought I'd ask the forum what I might try. I have not scoped the bore but it does not look too bad with bright light. Thanks for any help.
Dan

[Nobade]

First thing I would do is slug the bore and figure out what the groove diameter is. It's not uncommon for 38-55s to be up to .382" Loaded with putty soft bullets and black powder it works fine, but hard bullets and smokeless demand you have bullets big enough to fill the grooves. Unfortunately sometimes a cartridge loaded with a bullet big enough won't chamber. But measure things and see, it'll steer you in the right direction.

[garandsrus]

Marvel shooter,

A couple .001's will make a big difference in getting rid of the keyholes.

John

[Old Goat Keeper]

Get you over to Marlin Owners Forum. They have it down to a science getting them 38-55s shooting well (up to 1,000 yards now). Oh and that includes new rifles and ones over 100 years old with original barrels.

T-o-m

[NickSS]

Your bullet is too small in diameter. I had the same problem with an almost 100 year old Winchester 1894 I own. It shoots bullets of .379 pretty good but when I got some that went .381 it really started shooting well.

[marvelshooter]

Your bullet is too small in diameter. I had the same problem with an almost 100 year old Winchester 1894 I own. It shoots bullets of .379 pretty good but when I got some that went .381 it really started shooting well.

It seems to be the consensus that I need a larger bullet. I am waiting on a reply from a very generous member who offered me a few that measure .380 to try. Assuming they work how do I go about getting (casting) my own? The only mold I see for .38-55 is a Lee that advertises .379 diameter.
Thanks again to everyone who responded.
Dan

[Jon K]

Get you over to Marlin Owners Forum. They have it down to a science getting them 38-55s shooting well (up to 1,000 yards now). Oh and that includes new rifles and ones over 100 years old with original barrels.

T-o-m

You're in the right place.....There's more practical knowledge here, and sometimes lots of hear-say at Marlin Owners, along with a lot of "shoot J-bullets" over there.

Ditto slug the bore, and fit the boolit to the gun.

Jon

[45-70 Chevroner]

I have the lee 250 gr. mold and it throughs a .381 bullet with wheel weights and a little tin. The lee molds are not always what is advertised when it comes to measured size. That also depends on you alloy. I shoot a marlin cowboy rifle and the bore is .380 so my mold works just fine for my rifle.

[cwskirmisher]

I have the lee 250 gr. mold and it throughs a .381 bullet with wheel weights and a little tin. The lee molds are not always what is advertised when it comes to measured size. That also depends on you alloy. I shoot a marlin cowboy rifle and the bore is .380 so my mold works just fine for my rifle.

I have tried the Lee boolit, and in long Starline brass, crimped at the crimp groove, the OAL was too long to function thru the action of an original Win94. It would chamber fine if single loaded, but would jam in the action if tried from the mag tube. Standard (short) brass worked. So, it's not the chamber that's the problem in my gun, it's the OAL -the nose ogive would contact the top of the chamber before the rim was ready to align and slide up causing it to lock up. Now if I loaded it with the crimp higher on the ogive I could get it to work, but with smokeless loads I was not confident that the recoil would not set back bullets in the tube.

[largom]

I have tried the Lee boolit, and in long Starline brass, crimped at the crimp groove, the OAL was too long to function thru the action of an original Win94. It would chamber fine if single loaded, but would jam in the action if tried from the mag tube. Standard (short) brass worked. So, it's not the chamber that's the problem in my gun, it's the OAL -the nose ogive would contact the top of the chamber before the rim was ready to align and slide up causing it to lock up. Now if I loaded it with the crimp higher on the ogive I could get it to work, but with smokeless loads I was not confident that the recoil would not set back bullets in the tube.



Just trim your brass to so that the crimp and OAL function in your gun.

Larry

[cwskirmisher]

Just trim your brass to so that the crimp and OAL function in your gun.

Larry

The chamber is long enough to fit the long brass - and the gun functions fine with it when coupled with the Lyman 375248. Just the Lee doesn't work with the long brass. It works with the standard (short) brass.

[Old Goat Keeper]

You're in the right place.....There's more practical knowledge here, and sometimes lots of hear-say at Marlin Owners, along with a lot of "shoot J-bullets" over there.

Ditto slug the bore, and fit the boolit to the gun.

Jon

I have to respectfully disagree Jon! BOTH places have their merits. Hear-say??? Well I have heard some here, there and on other forums. BUT there is a group of guys over there who specialize in shooting 38-55s and at ranges up to 1,000 yards! Oh and they use both new and old original rifles to do it.

Just trying to give the OP more options!

T-o-m

[Carolina Cast Bullets]

If you want to get a great Lee Aluminum mold, 6 cavity, simply go to the top of the page and click on

Ranch Dog Outdoors

He stocks a great bullet for 38-55 that goes about 235 grains, gaschecked. Usually
it is sized to.379" for most rifles of that caliber. This avoids somewhat the problem
of using bullets too large to chamber.

If you want to try some before buying the mold, contact me at my website

www.carolinacastbullets.com

I have that bullet in my inventory and can supply you with a quantity for trial.


Jerry
Carolina Cast Bullets

[marvelshooter]

I just received a package from a member who offered to send me a few .380 diameter boolits to try and I have to say I am very surprised at what I got. 50 .380 boolits with gas checks, 30 .379 boolits also with gas checks and 20 .378 pure lead, 5 with gas checks. All neatly lined up in trays and vacuum sealed. The member made this offer privately so I won't identify him here but I gotta say you guys are the best. All he asked was that I do a pay it forward. Dan

[Buckshot]

................About the only readily available moulds for the 38-55 (the real 38-55's are NOT 375's :-)) are the 3 moulds available from Saeco as #638, #738, and #571. In that order they're 225gr, 255gr and 300gr. All three are FNPB and tapered designs. All three measure .382" on the wide base band using a 2 lead/1ww alloy. I have all three moulds and my favorite plinker load in my 1893 Marlin is the 225gr Saeco over 16.0grs of 2400.

I also have the Lee 250gr design, and it too is a fine slug so long as you don't need something a bit fatter. My copy drops a slug just over .380" but doesn't quite make .381" I really need in my Marlin. The Saeco's fit the bill for it.

http://www.fototime.com/2EEBEF6922E233B/standard.jpg

This is a photo of the Lee at the OAL I use when loading for my Hi-Wall. The slug on the right has been chambered and removed to show the engraving. Have fun with your 38-55. I think it is a very appealing and well porportioned cartridge. Looks like a baby 45-90 :-)

................Buckshot

[Chill Wills]

Old West Bullet Moulds has the correct bullet for the old 38-55 winchesters 1894'S
Bernie runs a one man mould shop and is a big time cast bullet shooter and runs the Lever silhouette matches in western Colorado. His moulds are both very good and priced right.
I don't have his contact info just now but look him up on google and give him a call.
Chill

[coyotebait]

Marvelshooter, some rifles chambered for 38-55 have a tight chamber neck in relation to the barrel groove dia. In other words a boolit fat enough for the groove dia. maynot be able to chamber. I have two Winchesters so chambered.
coyotebait

[9.3X62AL]

Marvelshooter, some rifles chambered for 38-55 have a tight chamber neck in relation to the barrel groove dia. In other words a boolit fat enough for the groove dia. maynot be able to chamber. I have two Winchesters so chambered.
coyotebait

I have ZERO time-in-grade with the 38-55, but have read in several threads about this tendency that Coyotebait speaks of. To resolve that issue, would neck turning or neck reaming be an option? I had to resort to that option with my ChiCom Tokarev pistol (7.62 x 25) and one make of brass I reformed for it. All good after that.

[marvelshooter]

I have ZERO time-in-grade with the 38-55, but have read in several threads about this tendency that Coyotebait speaks of. To resolve that issue, would neck turning or neck reaming be an option? I had to resort to that option with my ChiCom Tokarev pistol (7.62 x 25) and one make of brass I reformed for it. All good after that.
Now we are talking about brass and that I something I have been thinking about since I received my sample boolits. My meager supply of .38-55 brass consists of a large hand full of REM-UMC and Peters that somebody picked up off the ground and I traded some .45 brass for. It doesn't even all have the same primer size. It is all 2.125 long. I mention the length because Starline shows two sizes. 2.080 and 2.125 long and claims it has a thinner neck than Winchester to help in just the situation you are describing. Guess I have some more homework to do. Comments?
Dan

[garandsrus]

Dan,

If the brass loaded with a sample boolet will chamber, then you are all set to try again. Since you shot some other boolets, the longer brass length should be fine. You may need to adjust the OAL so that the larger slugs wil chamber.

The H&R Target rifle had this problem with quite a few rifles.

John

[Buckshot]

It is all 2.125 long. I mention the length because Starline shows two sizes. 2.080 and 2.125 long and claims it has a thinner neck than Winchester to help in just the situation you are describing. Guess I have some more homework to do. Comments?
Dan

..............The 2.125" length is the REAL 38-55 length and the long length from Starline is indeed thinner then the refried blown out 30-30 length W-W stuff headtsmped 38-55. The last 100 long Starlines I got all mic .007" at the casemouth. I just went out and checked a few of the W-W headstamped cases and they mic .009+. I used a tube mic. I know Jon K has some long Starlines from a couple years back that go .006+" at the casemouth. My 3 year old Uberti Hi-Wall will gladly chamber the long cases as will my 1906 vintage M93 Marlin 8-)

................Buckshot

[Marvin S]

I shoot two 94's a Lengendary Frontiersman and a 1895 mfg take down. Starline brass is an advantage you ought to use. Accurate molds will supply a mold to (your) specs. 10gr of unique and the fattest soft boolit you can chamber will more than likely shoot well. The 38-55 ain't that hard to make shoot good. The one that makes me lose hair is the 25-20.

[9.3X62AL]

The 38-55 ain't that hard to make shoot good. The one that makes me lose hair is the 25-20.

Remington #6-1/2 primers. These cut group sizes down 25%-50% across a range of load intensities in my 25-20 and 32-20 rifle loads. Small pistol primers have a similar effect, but their cup strength might not be up to high-end/high-velocity pressures. 25-20 pet load, thanks to Chargar--Lyman #257312 @ .258", 9.0 grains of IMR-4227, Rem 6-1/2 primers in either R-P or W-W brass. Jackrabbits HATE IT. Lyman #257420 does almost as well group-wise run by the same fuel/weight/spark plug.

We now return you to the original topic. :)

[Jon K]

Measure the chamber & bore/groove...fit the boolit to the rifle.
Don't try to out-guess what you need to make this shoot.
Some of the "old" guns had very large bores, and you may have to reline it, to make it shoot. I relined my 1881 because the bore was .379x.387. Some are not as large, and can be made to shoot, by various options to get a good fitting boolit to bore.
Gotta Love them 100 year old guns.:smile:

Jon

[marvelshooter]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_204364e99cb5ceb9df.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2417)
This was shot at 50 yards off a rickety bench resting on just my elbows. Notice how they all went in straight :) I started with the .380 diameter boolits and loaded them over 10gr of Unique and gave it a try. Before I loaded them I measured the neck thickness of my brass and found about half was .010 and the rest .008 which is a big difference because over the same boolit a loaded round will be .004 larger. Now that I know the rifle will shoot I will invest in some better brass and pick out a mold and have some fun. Thank all you guys for your help - especially my boolit donor.
Dan

[Marvin S]

Looks like your about there. Have fun with it, the 38-55 and 32-40 are my two favorite rifle rounds.

[saddlesore]

I went thru that entire exercise of rounds not chambering and hanging up just as they start.It is not the length or the brass or bullet diameter.I found at least in my old 94 Winchester, it is the shape of the ogive. Bullets with a longer taper and not quite so blunt will chamber in most of these guns. Look at the Ballard bullets that Graf and Sons sell vs a Hunter supply 38-55 and you will see the difference. Plus these old Winchesters have to be cycled aggressively.Try to slowly lever the action and have round start up the loading gate into the chamber and they will jam more often.

[northmn]

Starline brass permits a slightly larger diameter bullet to chamber in my 38-55 CB. I just use the "short" brass which is the Saami length. Some claims are that the "long" brass is for single shots. What I have seen with most is that they trim it down a bit for levers. I cast my own bullets for the 38-55 but I did see a Winchester 85 single shot copy that needed 381 bullets to avoid key holing. You should be able to get some slugging with Unique and a softer lead/tin alloy like 20-1. Still best to get a bullet that fits. You can also get a slight gain by using a coating lube. I use the Lee Tumble lube a lot with good results.

I also see a lot of target shooters agonize over the accuracy they get from an old Winchester or Marlin. There are a lot of factors that come into play with a lever action rifle and 5 shot groups. They were excellent hunting rifles but not made for target shooting. I sight all my levers in cold for hunting to permit that. Analyze your groups once you get it to behave a bit to see if they are walking. I had an old 35 Remington that would walk to the right and had to remove some wood from the fore stock. It still will do it to some extent but shoots to the same POI cold. Some can get 1" groups out of them but it is often a matter of working with both the rife and loads. Sometimes the number of rounds in the magazine and where you place your hand on the fore stock will change impact.

DEP

[Prodigal Son]

258699my 38-55 does just fine!