Low Serial No. O3's

[semtav]

How safe are the low S/N Rock Island 03's for low velocity cast boolit rounds?
I have a 5 digit one with a HS 10 44 barrel and swept back bolt.
appears unfired

[madsenshooter]

Not at all safe to fire, you should sell it to me, cheap, there's a place on my wall for it. Kidding, I wouldn't be the least bit afraid of them for this application. They're made of the same steel that was used for the Krag receiver. I've had one of my Krags shooting 220gr bullets at 2200fps. I think that in many cases the failure of the early 03s was due to something that caused the case to rupture. A bad case, the soldered in tin can bullets, shooting 8mm in them. The escaping gas did the rest of the wrecking.

[leadman]

Part of the problem with low number Springfields was thought to be new employees not as talented as the older employees at eyeballing the condition of the metal before pouring. Also varying light conditions in the factory.
Another factor was the attempt to reduce the severe coupro-nickel fouling left in the bores with the use of Mobilube grease on the bullets. The improper application of this grease allowed it to get on the cartridge case and increased the bolt head thrust. The bullet jackets were changed to gilding metal eventually and the use of grease prohibited. A rifle blown up after the jacket metal change was found to have been used with grease despite the prohibition.

Remember that even though your loads may be low velocity, depending on the powder they could be still producing substantial pressure.
As examples for a 30-06 with 311291. Unique 16.5gr = 36,400 C, 1,842 fps. IMR 3031 29.0 grs= 13,900 C, 1,710 fps.

The Civilian Merksmanship Program does not recommend firing any low number gun.
Personally, for around $300 you should be able to find a nice 1903 or 1903A3 sporter to shoot and have no worries about the reciever staying together.

[Char-Gar]

There is a huge debate over whether or not to fire these low numbered 03s. The failure rate of these rifles is about the same as the higher numbered rifles, so they are NOT more prone to come apart.

The difference is what happens WHEN one of them does come apart. Being brittle, they tend to turn into grenades whereas the higher numbers will swell up, but not break into pieces.

Most advise is not to shoot them. Most of that advise is given for liability purposes.

However many folks do shoot them and some do so with cast bullets at low pressure with zero problems. But, one of our long times members here fired one with cast bullets some years back and used an accidental double charge of powder. Nobody was seriously hurt, the the rifle action broke in many pieces.

So those are the facts as I understand them. You will have to decide for yourself if you want to put the rifle into service with cast bullets or any other ammo.

[frnkeore]

The best advice I can give you is to read Hatchers book. He details the failures and was part of the investagation and resolve of the problem. The failures were considerable for a production rifle.

That said, I believe them to be safe at CB pressures just as the Krag is, like Madsen says.

Frank

PS
Hatchers book is well worth the money (about $30) and will keep you glued to it untill you've read the whole thing.

[gnoahhh]

I too won't recommend shooting them for liability reasons, but have and will continue to do so with mine. I just won't do it with anything resembling a hot load, or even a factory load for that matter.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I have 2 low # Springfields I shoot with cast. I would like to get a RI but it has not happened as of yet.. But if I do I will check it carefully for cracks around the receiver and how the bolt is locking up.. then shoot it as much as I care to.
I think low # 1903´s are like bear attacks... more people will die worrying about them than ever seeing one happen.
Mike in Peru

[Urny]

I have two low number Springfields and one low number RIA, and shoot them frequently. I will note that all are very low numbers and not associated with the hurried production of WWI. My favorite loads are 311284 sized .310, charged with 21.0 IMR 4227, and 308403 unsized, with 15.0 4759. There are others I try from time to time, including 311467 and 311291, but those are the main ones. My preference has come to be leaving the faster powders out of it for these low number rifles.

[Multigunner]

Hatcher reported a Low Number receiver that shattered like a jelly jar when a very low pressure Guard or Gallery round was fired in it, though the same rifle had digested full power Ball ammo with no problems.
He wrote that there was no sign of a double charge or any defect in the cartridge.
His conclusion was that the lower pressure of the cartridge prevented any cushioning affect from the case wall gripping the chamber wall. The case head came back against the bolt face at high velocity, like a sharp rap with a hammer. The receiver didn't so much blow up as simple shatter like glass and then fall apart.
This could be why many low number rifles failed when light charges were used, leading the shooter to belive it was an accidental double charge. Boolit lube on cases or in chambers would increase the battering action.
Heat treatment was the culprit, not the alloy used. The steel supplied may not have been up to par though, adding to the problem.
There were warnings on some M-14 flash hiders back in the 90's. These were defective due to the manufacturer using steel from the center of an ingot. The best steel is on the outside portion of each ingot, the centers are called "pipestock" and considered only suitable for low pressure pipe. The pipestock flash hiders could shatter unexpectedly .

In earlier times gun steel was worked on quite a bit at the factories to reduce impurities, and barrels were thick enough that it took a huge inclusion or fracture to compromise the barrel at BP pressures.

[avogunner]

I have a low number (5 digit) RIA 03 and shoot it regularly. I've read Hatcher and many other opines about this subject and determined the risk low enough to be very comfortable shooting cast loads. Bottom line is, you'll have to come to your own conclusion of whether your gun is safe to shoot. As I said, I have and my 03 loves the Lee 170gr FP over 30grs of 3031 or 31grs of 748 (I average 2" or less at 100yds). Lyman's 3rd Ed. shows these as the lowest pressure of their loads listed and they are very easy on the old shoulder.

[semtav]

Thanks for all the info.