Synthetic Bullet Tip Mold

[HollowPoint]

Before I explain my concept, I just want to pre-empt my description by saying that I'm not posting this as a sales pitch or trying to talk anyone into using these type of bullet tips so please don't misunderstand me.

This is something I've been wanting to build for my own use. Wether it will be worth the effort is still yet to be seen. In theory, it should improve the Ballistic Coefficient of any bullet.

Wether this is of any real benefit for short range pistol bullets is debatable but, no matter. I just think it would look cool.

In addition, with pointy nosed bullets fired from tube-magazines like those found on Lever Action rifles, these Synthetic Bullet Tips may mitigate the chance of detonation due to the recoil produced in some calibers.

This was my first attempt at CAD drawing with this particular software. It's hardly professional so please bare with me. I just wanted to show enough detail to allow you to see the components it was made of and -when assembled- how it was designed to function.

The pictures have been enlarged in order to show detail. The dimensions of this mold are actually just three inches long by one inch wide by a half inch thick.

As with any design, this mold could have been made much more simplified but, this is my concept and my design so, this is what I had in mind.

The profile of the cavities can also just as easily be made to accommodate the profile of any hollow pointed bullet imaginable.

I happened to chose this particular Bullet Tip profile because it more closely aligned with a 30 caliber Lyman rifle bullet mold I have.

When compared to the smallest 22 caliber bullet mold, these Synthetic Bullet Tip cavities are incredibly small. I need to figure out a way to polish a cavity this small so as to make up the smoothest surface finish possible for these Synthetic Bullet Tips.

Any insight along that line would be appreciated.

Incidentally, the drawings depict molds made of brass with brushed aluminum Locking Arms. When I build my first Synthetic Bullet Tip mold it will more than likely be made entirely of aluminum and clamped together with a cheap set of Vise-Grips. Simply because its what I have on hand; and it's cheaper than brass.

How does it work? First, you spray the mold cavities with a film-lubricant like Pam-Cooking oil or WD40. Since the cavities themselves are open ended and very small, you just squirt your hot-glue in from the top of the mold till you get glue/sprue out of both ends. Then, after the glue has cooled, you run a single-edge razor blade across the top and bottom of the mold to cut off the sprue. (In a guillotine fashion) Unlock the Locking Arms so the mold halves spring apart and remove the Synthetic Bullet Tips.

HollowPoint

[Stick_man]

Hmmm, sounds kind of interesting. Kind of like a cast version of the LeveRevolution? It seems like the polymer tips used in the commercial bullets are a little more flexible than what I would imagine hot glue would set up to be. Would that be an issue? It would probably still be flexible enough to minimize risk of detonation in a tube magazine, but I don't know for sure. Next question is How would you get them to stay in the boolit until fired? If you can insert them (by hand) into the hollow point of your boolit, wouldn't they tend to slip out? Would you need to put some kind of adhesive on them before insertion?

Just a couple thoughts. It is kind of a cool idea though. Keep at it. You may be onto something.

[Jim]

Back in the fall of '06, I and several other members started experimenting with making boolits with hot glue. We called the 'gluelits'.

Since then, I've done a lot of injection molding with hot glue. There's a couple of things I'll tell you in hopes it might help.

I found it necessary to make a heavy sprue on top of the mold. As the glue cools, it shrinks and causes 'suck back'. If there's not enough sprue to provide for that, a cavity will develop in the casting.

You might find it beneficial to continually lube the mold cavities. However, anything more than an extremely light coat will cause indentations in the casting.

I got my best results using the mold at room temperature. Speed cooling it by plunging the mold in water or sticking it in the freezer does little to speed the cooling.

I found that the glue casting needs to set for at least an hour, if not longer, to 'cure' and completely harden. The casting can be removed from the mold moments after the glue sets up, but it is still soft and can be damaged.

When I make gluelits, it takes a full minute for the casting to set up in the mold hard enough to open the mold and remove the casting. When the sprue turns cloudy, the casting is ready.

Hot glue has a mechanical memory. If it is forcefully distorted and held, it will conform to the distortion and not return to it's original shape like live rubber. It might work for what you are trying, but I have to wonder if it will retain it's shape if loaded in a tubular magazine against the backs of other rounds. I think the spring pressure of the magazine follower would create a distortion in the hot glue tip.

Really, I hope you prove me wrong. I would really enjoy seeing you accomplish this. This could open a new door for casters.

HERE IS A LINK (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=395472&postcount=117)to a post that might help.

[HollowPoint]

These Hot-Glue Synthetic Bullet Tips aren't an new idea by any means. (as Jim can attest to)

It's simply my take on the idea for molding the tips. I've found that when fully cured/dried, the consistency of these Hot-Glue tips is close enough to that of my V-Max bullet tips that I really don't see any problem.

As far as them coming out on their own: Well, I'd put a pin-head sized dab of super glue on the bottom of it. You could also insert it and swage it just enough to grip the shank of the tip. I found that if the shank of the tip is made just a fraction larger than your hollow-point cavity it will stay in place well enough on its own as well.

I did try some experiments with securing the tips in place that included making my hollow point spud with the very end lightly threaded so I could screw the tips in place. It worked but, so did the other methods I listed above. These were informal experiments made with 7/64" cylindrical pieces of this cured hot glue. (not formed synthetic tips themselves)

If you think about it, a snug fit into your hollow point cavity creates a certain amount of suction which secures the tip in place. Unless you deliberately try to pull them back out of your hollow point cavity they're not likely to just drop out by themselves.

When shot, a bullet wearing one of these synthetic tip is traveling forward which puts pressure on the tip so, in essence, that pressure pushing at the nose of the bullet actually imparts a slight amount of compression and expansion of the Synthetic-Bullet-Tip-Shank within the hollow point cavity of your bullet.

As far as the "Distortion" factor mentioned by Jim; I haven't ever tried putting one of these tips on a tube magazine fed rifle bullet. Even if this were the case and the tip did tend to distort, it would just be a matter of finding out the amount of distortion to expect on average and molding your tips to distort into the desired profile. (easier said that done I'm sure but, doable none the less)

The one hour or so time frame that it takes for a bullet sized blob of this Hot Glue incased in a bullet mold to fully cure sounds about right. Even a small 9mm cast-Hot-Glue bullet is about eight times the size of one of these tips. I suspect that the smaller size of one of these tips in an open-ended mold would reduce the curing time substantially.

I hope it works out well too because I have three bullet molds in particular that I'd like to make these tips for. One of them is a Lyman Devastator mold in 45 caliber; the others are a Mihec 300 grain hollow point and then there's my 30 caliber Lyman 311291 that Eric over at hollowpointservice hollow pointed for me.

Will it work for me? Time will tell.

HollowPoint

[JIMinPHX]

That's an interesting concept. I would have done it the opposite way. I would have gotten my plastic tips injection molded out of a high temperature thermoset plastic & then I would have inserted the tips in the bottom of my mold before pouring in the lead. I think that each approach has it's advantages & drawbacks.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Why not make the mold as a "real" injection mold and split the halves at the step between the shank and the point instead of a symmetrical lengthwise parting line.

[longbow]

I think it looks like a great idea!

This should result in significantly increased ballistic coefficient for boolits with large HPs and blunt noses but not affect terminal performance.

The high strength hot melt glue is pretty good stuff and I use it for attached wad 12 ga. slugs. Jim mentioned shrinkage and I agree, you need a reservoir so as the glue shrinks while cooling, it can pull in more so large sprue would be good.

I just made a simple push out mould to test out the Ness Safety Bullet concept for my .303 and it would be an ideal candidate for one of these tips:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=126732

Shouldn't affect expansion but would take a ballistic brick and make it better.

Interesting idea! Keep us posted.

Longbow

[geargnasher]

Really good thread, I've tried this a few times in the past, using different things for nose moulds. My goal was to make a Ranch Dog 311-165 into an equivalent of the Hornady LEVERevolution ammo and see if it would help the historically dismal BC of typical tube-magazine, FN cast designs. I wanted a WFN boolit with minimal HP cavity and a nose material that was tough enough to withstand the rigors of loading, feeding, and the trip to the target, but be soft enough to have minimal effect on penetration and allow the flat nose and small HP cavity to do their work on game.

What I came up with was limited by my knowledge of materials and tools, but I did exactly what Cap'n Morgan suggested by making a two-piece mould from Nylon cutting board material. After cutting out the mold blocks and fitting alignment pins, I drilled the cavity straight through one side and into the other with a bit the diameter of the HP cavity, then separated the blocks and reamed the nose profile in the other block with a teardrop-shaped Dremel burr. I ended up having to drill a tiny vent hole clear through the tip of the nose (duh) with a torch cleaning drill bit, which was a pain to clean out each cast. I used the base as a sprue hole, just put the hot glue gun point in there and squeezed the glue in there. It worked pretty well, but I didn't know there was a better grade of glue. The plain-jane stuff I used was for fabric and such and wasn't sturdy enough to handle any side-loads that the magazine would put on the tips.

I'll be keeping an eye on this one, you guys have better ideas than I did.

Gear

[G. Blessing]

fascinating!!

I look forward to your results!

G.

[HollowPoint]

Hey geargnasher:

When you built your mold out of that cutting board material, (delrin I presume?) what kind of finish did you get on the surface of your cast bullet tips?

Were you able to smooth out the surface of your mold's tip-cavities? If so, how did you do it?

I'm just wondering because I'd like to be able to put a mirror finish on the Tip-Portion of my mold cavities if possible in order to avoid giving the Hot Glue a surface to adhere to; even with the light coating of oil.

Did the Hot Glue in your efforts want to stick to the material you used as a mold?

By the way; I mentioned this in another thread a few days ago. I can't remember which one thought.

When I started gathering my material for this project, I was able to purchase Hot Glue Sticks in the colors, Red, Green, Black, White and Clear. Try to envision your cast bullet hollow points wearing a Ballistic Tip in any one of those colors.

Now, for those of you that make your own Gas Checks out of colorful soda cans; picture this; a red or green synthetic tip with a matching colored Gas Check and matching bullet lube. Crazy huh?

Not that matching colors would do anything for your terminal or exterior ballistics but, like I said, "I just think it will look really cool." It's enough to make your next hunt-harvest proud to have been shot by one of your bullets. LOL

I have pictured these bullet color schemes on several occasions. That's why I stated in my initial post, "I just think it would look cool."


Longbow: I took a look at the "Ness-Safety bullet you mentioned. I'm in complete agreement. A synthetic bullet tip would transform this bullet into something more out of the ordinary than it already is. Concentricity would be critical for a bullet tip this large.

HollowPoint

[geargnasher]

Hot glue sticks to just about everything except the cutting board material. I polished the cavity with sandpaper IIRC, and a little twist of a Q-tip dampened with Pam just to help things out a bit. I didn't find that it took very long for the glue to set, maybe a couple of minutes.

Gear

[JIMinPHX]

Hollowpoint,
I would expect that either Teflon or UHMWPE (aka poor man's Teflon) would be good choices for making up the glue mold. Both are plastics that have very good non-stick properties. I haven't actually tested either one with hot glue, but I would expect good results.

Edit:
UHMWPE is good up to around 200F. If the glue gets hotter than that, then it may not be a good choice. Teflon is good to nearly 500F, but once you hit it's magic temperature, it throws off some very toxic fumes. It usually turns clear just before it starts to gas off.

[longbow]

After readin gthe last few comments on plastics I should have added that Gear is right, hot melt glue sticks to EVERYTHING!

I made "wad" forms up from CPVC pipe couplings for my shotgun slugs and that works fine as long as I use a release agent which is usually a light wipe of wheelbearing grease.

Not sure about Jim's suggestions of UHMWPE or Teflon but easy enough to test. I am betting Teflon would work without a release agent though (good idea Jim) but if needed a light spray with PAM or a wipe with oil should fix that.

Plastics would be easier to work than steel and probably cast better due to the insulating properties. I find my plastic pipe couplings do a better job with the "wads" than steel forms did. The "wads" take longer to cool but no wrinkles. Pre-heating might fix that but no need with plastic.

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

Initially I just wanted to make my "Proof of Concept" mold out of whatever I had on hand. That would be aluminum.

My reason for asking geargnasher about that cutting board material was just to see what he had to do to get a smooth finish on the inside of his cavities. For the shank portion of the cavities, it may be beneficial to leave them a little rough; so long as the hot glue doesn't adhere to that surface.

If it pans out as I hope it will, then I may consider using other material to help things along.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

Aluminum should machine nicely as long as it isn't absolutely pure soft aluminum.

I would definitely recommend a release agent like PAM or silicone spray on aluminum though. Pre-heating will also likely help avoid wrinkles and voids from too fast freezing going into the mould.

Longbow

[geargnasher]

If I were to make my own HP modifications to a mould like Rangefinder demonstrated here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=123677, what would be the best shape for the bottom of the HP cavity or tip of the pin? I know the pin needs to have a slight taper so it doesn't stick, but would a rounded bottom be best for keeping the heat even? What do you guys think about a faceted pin like Miha makes for holding the synthetic tips in place under the torque of a high-rpm boolit?

Gear

[longbow]

I think you would need a large HP cavity to make this work to begin with for two main reasons:

- making the soft tips will be difficult to impossible if the "stem" is small (I am thinking 1/16" is too small and 3/32" might be marginal)
- inserting them and having enough "stem" to be stiff enough to keep them pointed straight

I would go with round tapered cavity simply because it is much easier to produce both HP pin and soft tip stem.

My inclination would be to epoxy or hot melt glue them into the cavity to make sure they do not part company with the boolit during handling or in the air.

For large bore boolits of .357 and up should be no problem but for small bore of .30 and smaller may not be so easy.

I am thinking of trying this idea for the Ness Safety boolit "clone" I made but it has a .200" diameter cavity so very large for .30 cal.

Just had another thought. There are liquid urethane coatings available for coating tool handles. Something like that might also make a good soft point insert and should be easier to get into small cavities/passageways if injected through a hypodermic needle or similar.

Just another $0.2 worth.

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

Back when I first joined this forum I did so to participate in a group-buy for one of Mihec's 44 caliber cramer style bullet molds.

I also had a store bought single cavity Lyman 45 caliber devastator mold. Both molds worked very well for me but I found that I could better the control the expansion of my hollow points if I could control the depth of my hollow points.

For this reason I built some adjustable hollow point spuds for both. Out of necessity the cramer stype mold had to have some taper to the spuds but, the single cavity 45 caliber mold seem to lend itself more to a straight shank profiled spud.

With this in mind, I designed my first attempt at building one of these Synthetic Bullet Tip mold specifically for the 45 caliber first. Then, once I see how or if it will work, I can move on to modify in whatever manner necessary to get it to work for my other hollow point cavity profiles.

The pics of the adjustable hollow point spud below has a diameter that measures pretty close to the diameter of the of your Ness safety boolit; maybe not quite as long. The reason I'm posting the pic again is just to show you how I profiled the tip of the spud.

In my single cavity molds, even though the spud is not tapered, I just spin the spud clock-wise a little before pulling it out and I'll get a hollow point cavity with parallel walls with the bottom of my cavity slightly rounded.

I'm thinking if I form the shank of my Synthetic Bullet Tip to conform to the parallel walls of my hollow point cavity they should fit quite securely.

Good point about the diameters of the shanks though. I fiddled around with different diameter shanks in my drawing software just to see what might be best for a given bullet diameter.

They would also have to be of sufficient length for a given length of the bullet tip itself. With the ability to adjust my hollow point cavity, this make it a little easier to allow for this.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

This should be interesting. I will be following your work here.

Seems to me I have seen that adjustable hollow point spud before. You must have posted it in another thread. Nice work! In fact very nice work!

Please keep us posted.

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

Thank you Sir:

I appreciate your compliment.

I posted this picture and a couple of others that included my adjustable cramer style spuds shortly after joining this forum.

I eventually deleted them in order to make room for photos of other projects I'd completed. Those "other photos" have also been deleted for the same reason.

HollowPoint

[geargnasher]

I did some testing of no-name hot glue sticks I had here, cast some 6.5mm "Gluelits" and did some deformation tests. This stuff seems ok for ballistic tips on box-magazine rifles, but not for tube-fed guns, it deforms permanently under sustained pressure, I think "amorphous" is the term.

Anyone have ideas for a better hot glue? Maybe the high-temp stuff that takes the upgraded glue gun?

Gear

[longbow]

Not sure just what type of hot melt glue you are using but here we tend to see:

- low temp craft glue ~ slightly opaque/clear stick that is fairly soft
- regular hot melt glue in a slightly opaque/clear stick that is fairly soft
- high strength hot melt glue in an opaque amber stick and it is quite hard

I have also had industrial hot melt that was very hard and clear amber ~ looked a lot like Ferrel Tite glue:

http://www.acsbows.com/id81.html

Another potential option is the liquid urethanes but that would require loading a syringe to inject which could be messy and difficult cleaning (maybe okay to prove in principle).

I would try out the high temp/high strength amber hot melt glue as it is almost like polyethylene plastic. As mentioned prior, I use it for attached wads for shotgun slugs. It may be hard/strong enough for this.

Also, I would be looking at a nose that is similar to a Lyman 311299 or maybe Loverin style, so slender tapered round nose without a sharp point. I think a sharp point will be tough for the home tinkerer to find a material tough/hard enough but that can easily be formed and not take a set under stress.

Hmmmm having said that last bit, epoxy might work and I have seen two part epoxy commercial hand held units like a small (tiny actually) caulking gun with throw away pointed nozzles. That might do it but these would likely be quite hard and possibly brittle.

A type of tough hot melt glue is probably easiest all round.

Longbow

[geargnasher]

Agree on the hot melt glue being the simplest, and also on your concepts of tip shape. Any sort of room-temperature-vulcanizing substance or solvent-based chemical like urethanes could be easily injected with a syringe like is used for administering oral farm animal meds, available at any feed store, so injection is not a problem.

I see two distinct applications of the ballistic tip: One, to give better ballistics in high-velocity cast boolits without the issue of nose-slump, and the other would be to improve the ballistics of tube-magazine rifles while reducing the risk of primer detonation in the magazine under recoil. For the first, a harder tip might be more desireable, while for the latter, a more blunt, flexible tip would be in order I think. I'll have to get some of the high-temp stuff and a new gun and see if that will work better.

Incidentally, I just ordered a new boolit mould with one cavity drilled for an HP spud, so hopefylly I'll get a chance to play with this in the next few weeks.

A trick I learned making Gluelits, wipe the cavity before each filling with a Q-tip dampened with Sprayway #945 industrial mould release silicone spray for a flawless release every time. Unlike lead, the glue doesn't pockmark if you don't use too much.

Gear

[JIMinPHX]

How about 30-second epoxy?

[DukeInFlorida]

There was a thread in the SWAGING portion of this forum, where the subject of the soft pointy tips was discussed. Most of us are using the pre-made polymer tips, that come in a bag, and are very cheap! Installing them into a swaged bullet jacket is easy. A bit of glue into a hollow pointed cast boolit would work just as well.

The polymer tips are exactly what people like Hornady use. They're soft enough to use magazine fed, and they do certainly enhance flight path.

Here's the thread I refer to:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=92488

Place to get them:
http://www.skikare.com/SkiKare_Catalog_2011-12.pdf

[Crawdaddy]

A while back I was looking for plastic material I could cut into polymer tips and came up with nothing. Never thought of moulding them. I LOVE THIS IDEA!

HAve you made any yet, come up with solutions?

I'll be following closely.

[HollowPoint]

I got a chance to mill the two halves of my Synthetic Bullet Tip mold a couple of days ago. I've been waiting for some screws I ordered last week.

They're the screws I'll be using to secure the actual tip-portion of my mold to the shank portion. Since it's my first prototype attempt I'm still mulling over my milling strategy for machining the very tips of the Synthetic Tips. The shank portions of the mold are pretty much a vertical hole.

Instead of making three different molds for the three different bullets I'm wanting to use these tips on, I thought I'd try making three different cavities on this one mold. I think it will save me some time in the long run. Since this is just my first prototype it will help me iron out any bugs before moving on the my next attempts.

I bought enough aluminum stock to allow me to screw up a half dozen molds. If I can't get it right by the time I get to my sixth prototype I think I should sell my new mill and take up origami or macrame or something.

I'd like to be able to give the cavities at the tips of this mold a mirror shine if possible. Right now I'm thinking of just milling the tip a hair smaller then polishing to size. I have couple more days to think about it.

HollowPoint

[geargnasher]

Use Sprayway silicone mould release spray (#945) and you won't have to worry about sticking unless the cuts are so ragged that the casting mechanically locks into the cavity. I rechecked this again just a couple of nights ago making some test "Gluelits", works great on aluminum. Remember I drilled a tiny vent hole clear through the tip half of mine and it really helped prevent bubbles from forming near the tip. Trim the tip "sprue" with a razor blade.

I also did some deformation tests, the low-temp, milky-white glue sticks wouldn't stand long-term compression. Placing slight pressure on them in a vise and leaving them overnight produced permanent flat points, so storage in a tube magazine would preclude the use of this particular flavor of glue. I'll pursue some of the other types suggested in the future.

It ended up not being possible with his available tooling for the maker to HP the mould I ordered, so I'll see about doing it another way.

Hollowpoint, I look forward to your mould experiments!

Gear

[HollowPoint]

Attempt number one is now in the books as a failed attempt.

I got impatient and changed around the sequence of my milling operations thinking I could cut my time down a little. Bad mistake.

Actually the drawings, the plan and the materials were all good; it was my execution of my plan that's what lead to the failed attempt.

Everything went smoothly until the very last machining operation; the part where I milled the very tips of the "Tips." Rearranging my sequence of milling operations lead to having all of my cavities out of alignment. Three hours worth of work ruined in about five minutes.

I learned alot but, I would have rather remained a little ignorant and still gotten it done.

Oh well; when I cut down my metal stock a couple of days ago I made sure to cut down enough for the first four molds. My next attempt is already cut out so all I need is some more free time to have another go at it.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I nearly completed attempt number 2 today. It's still far from perfect but, much, much better. All my cavities appear perfectly aligned.

With the help of some of the guys over on the CNCZone website I was able to do a little better on the finish of the cavity tips but I'm still working for a better finish.

After my first attempt I thought for sure I'd have to ruin a half dozen Synthetic-Tip-Molds before coming up with anything usable.

I think I might actually be able to cast some test tips with this second mold.

One of my many mistakes was relying on my drill bits to give me the diameter sizes that my drawings call for. I see now that it will require slightly smaller drill bits and more carefully sized reamers to get all my holes closer to the right tolerances.

I have a few more things I need to do to get this present prototype ready to cast. Right now it looks like I might have a day or two off next week. If so, I'll take some pictures for those who are interested.

On this second go-around I'd planned on making the mold for my 30 caliber Lyman bullet. Since it was a smaller diameter than either the 44 or 45 calibers I hope to do next, I thought if I screwed up the holes on this I could maybe salvage it by drilling them the next size up.

Since patience isn't one of my strong-suits, I ended up milling it for my 300 grain 44 caliber hollow pointed bullets.

I'm starting to get a little more comfortable using my new mill. I say this because I noticed that my hand is no longer hovering over my "Emergency-Stop" button any more; and my ******* isn't clamping down hard on the bottom of my underwear each time I start a new machining operation. (as if waiting for something bad to happen)

I've broken two drill bits on my two initial runs with this hobby mill. For the most part it seems to be working out well.

I'm thinking/hoping that the third time will be the charm. With any luck I'll have a fully functional 30 caliber Synthetic Bullet Tip mold the next time around. Then I can move on to my 45 caliber Lyman Devastator mold.[smilie=w:

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

UPDATE:

Like I stated above; "Patience is not one of my strong-suits."

I went ahead and finished up this 44 caliber Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold this afternoon. I couldn't wait any longer. I oiled it up and tried casting some Black Synthetic Tips with it.

It works like gang-busters. It really works; I mean, I knew it would work, I just didn't know if I could get it to work. With a light coating of WD40, most of the tips came out of the mold quite easily. A couple of them required the use of two fingers rather than one to get them to drop out.

This particular mold has eight cavities. By the time I got done filling the last of the eight cavities, cavities one through seven had already hardened enough to cut the sprue off all of them. It took no time at all to produce eight fully finished Synthetic-Bullet-Tips.

I wanted to take pictures of them but I found that my camera batteries were all drained. They're charging up even as I write.

All the 44 caliber cast bullets I have on hand were cast with the Mihec-Factory hollow Point spud. This means I couldn't actually install the tips unless I cheated and whittled down the shank of one of the tips to allow it to slip down into the existing hollow point cavity. So, that's what I did with one of the newly cast Synthetic tips. I was dying to see how they were going to fit.

As luck would have it, when the Synthetic Tips hardened they may have shrunk down just enough to allow me to go back and polish the inner walls of the very tips themselves. I'm not quite sure of this yet though. It could just be that I inadvertently milled them a hair small. In theory, going back and polishing the inner walls should give me more of a shiny finish on my mold while at the same time increasing the diameter at the widest diameter-point of the Synthetic Tip.

I'm going to hold off on any polishing until I can cast some new bullets with the adjustable hollow point spuds that I made these Synthetic Tips to fit.

I'm stoked; I'm really stoked. I can see the potential here just by looking at the finished tips. I can also see that there will be some tweaks needed in order to get them to fit like a glove. (so to speak)

Someone mentioned in a previous post that these Hot Glue Sticks tended to deform when subjected to pressure; like the pressure exerted while in a tubular magazine lever gun. If this is the case, it's possible that if I leave the tips-diameter a tad small, any deformation induced by the being squished in a tubular magazine may actually increase the diameter of these tips just enough to bring them to the same diameter as the flat on the tip of my bullets. (This is just speculation at this point. Testing would need to be done.)

That's it for now. Hopefully I get some more free time early next week for another update.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

They look like little black mushrooms.

The Mihec 300 grain 44 caliber Black-Tip Hollow Point.

If you say it with a manly base-tone-voice and just a pinch of attitude, it almost sounds like a commercial advertisement doesn't it?

I took some quick pics of this prototype Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold this morning before work. At lunch time I got a chance to shrink the photos down in order to post them here.

You'll notice little silver specs on the Synthetic-Tips themselves. Those silver specs are aluminum shavings that I missed when I went to clean out the cavities. They transfered onto the surfaces of the Synthetic-Bullet-Tips as they solidified in the mold.

I hope they come through clear enough to give you an idea about what I've been babbling about in my last few replies.

Now that I know more or less how to go about machining these molds properly, I plan on tackling the 30 caliber next. It's the cast bullet I shoot out of my old Enfield.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

Those are looking pretty slick!

I am looking forward to the .30 cal version.

Nice job on the mould!

Longbow

[midnight]

I just wanted to throw out a small idea. Back when I used to make duck decoys from expandable polystyrene? pellets, I needed a release agent for the aluminum mold. I used zinc stearate. It's like talcum powder and they used to use it on the baby's behind. I quit using it because I couldn't get paint to stick to it without sanding the whole surface. But boy did it work as a release agent. Nothing sticks to that stuff. I ended up using corn oil because it gave a much harder surface and paint stuck to it.

Bob

[geargnasher]

You're ahead of me, I ended up melting my HDPE mould with my hot glue gun tip while trying to keep the bases from sucking a bubble. This type of mould needs a good sprue plate for sure, and probably needs to be made of metal.

I'm going to see if I can get a-hold of some 1/4" aluminum and try my idears again. I don't have the tools to make a mould like yours, but I can make one that separates between the stem and base of the tip.

Did you vent the noses? I can't tell from the pics if the very tip is open or not. Looks like the boolit noses are round, so I'm guessing not.

Gear

[HollowPoint]

Thank you Gentlmen:

I appreciate you compliments and input. The talcum-powder idea sounds like it should work well. I've been having good luck with WD40. I think in the long run, the one to use will be the one that's cheaper to buy.

My molds are open ended and they don't have any vent-lines milled into the inside faces like traditional bullet molds. I tried to make them lay flat against each other.

I started work on my 30 caliber Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold yesterday. Since these tips are even smaller than those of the previous project mold, I've had to use even smaller drill bits.

As a result, I ended up breaking all my drill bits of the appropriate diameters. A broken bit is a wandering bit. This means that as a result of the drill breakages I managed to ruin three of the fifteen cavities that this particular mold was designed to have.

Traditional Feed-And-Speeds calculations don't seem to apply with these ultra-small-diameter drill bits.

On a bright note; the 3/32" ball nose end mill I used to mill the very tips of my "Tips" on this 30 caliber mold seemed to do a better job of giving me a smoother finish.

I'll keep plucking away at it and post some more pics as time permits.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I finally got the 30 caliber assembled. Then I had to disassemble it in order to shave some metal off the bottom of the top-layer-plate.

When I tried casting with it initially the diameter of the tips came out a little larger than the diameter of the flat nose of my cast bullet. I think I got it pretty close to matching now.

This is my second prototype Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold. The first one was a bust but, these last two seem to work just fine; even though they're still far from perfect. After I have a few more months of experience working with this CNC mill I'll make a concerted effort to build three more Synthetic-Bullet-Tip molds with an eye for more of a presentable finished product.

These second two molds -although functional- are really nothing to write home about. I really just wanted to see if I could make them, and once made, I wanted to see if they would work as I'd hoped.

On this 30 caliber mold I tried to make the contour of the shank match the contour of the hollow point cavity a little closer. After having done so and casting a few tips I found that there really is no reason to form my shanks so that they go all the way down to the bottom of my hollow point cavities.

On this Lyman 311291 bullet, the hollow point cavity is fairly deep.

I noticed too that, initially I thought it would be better to have a slightly snug fitting shank; and that's OK; I mean, it works that way but, I have to set my bullets upside down for a while until the Synthetic tips take on the contour of the hollow point cavity.

If I make the shanks a hair small, with a dab of super-glue on the wall of the shank and twisting it into place, it becomes a snug fit that's glued in place without having to do anything further.

I found that if I cut these present 30 caliber shanks in half with the razor blade, the Synthetic Tips stay put in the cavities just as good as having the full length shank fill the entire hollow point cavity. If I'd have known this before I could have saved myself a little work and gone with some slightly less expensive metal stock.

Oh well; that's how we learn this kind of stuff. Trial and error.

I'm going to work on my Lyman 45 caliber Devastator mold Synthetic tips next. I may re-do the 44 caliber mold so the shank matches the profile of my DIY adjustable hollow point spud now that I have a little experience under my belt. Then I can move on to a project that addresses the other end of my bullets.

Several months ago I made up some drawings of a Gas-Check Die that formed Rebated Boat Tail Gas Checks. Once I finish this last Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold I can concentrate on my Boat Tail Gas Check project.

I'm slowly trying to bring my cast bullets into the 21st century; one bullet at a time. With every baby-step I take forward with these endeavors I'm reassured that there really is no reason not to; unless that's your preference. And that's quite alright as well.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

That is most impressive!

The .30 cal has me very interested. I particularly like the idea of a large hollow point like the Ness Safety Bullet with something like this in it to give it higher ballistic coefficient.

I know the idea of the Ness bullet was to make it a close range bullet as well as explosive on impact with anything but I am not worried about close range so really like your idea for extending range of a boolit like that.

Very nice work and great results.

I guess now that you have paved the way, I will have to get off my fat old lazy butt and get to work myself.

That really is terrific work, great post and very nice of you to share so generously.

Thanks,
Longbow

[HollowPoint]

Thank you longbow:

I knew it could be done but, I had my doubts as to whether I could do it. Now I know otherwise.

The old saying that, "If I can do it, anybody can," gets used alot; mostly as a patronizing statement but, I think it applies here.

It's obvious to me that such a mold would be beneficial in many cases where the profile of a bullet is less than optimum for achieving a good ballistic coefficient.

For hollow pointed bullet molds already in existence it creates a situation where a custom made Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold would have to be made but, for instance, a group-buy mold where a larger number of folks will be buying the same design/pattern hollow point configurations, a Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold could be offered as an option for those who wish to try them.

There is still a possibility of running into some snags due to the alloys and temperatures that different folks cast with. Different alloys sometimes drop from the mold at different sizes even out of identically sized cavities.

I hope to get started on my 45 caliber Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold next week if time permits. I'll post updates when I get the chance.

I've been fortunate in that lately I've been able to finish most of my scheduled work early; giving me some free time to complete the work on these Synthetic-Bullet-Tip molds.

HollowPoint

[geargnasher]

Following with growing interest. Those .30 caliber tips look very much like what I was trying to create.

Gear

[HollowPoint]

Stop The Presses! Stop The Presses!

Last night as I was laying in bed trying to think of a quicker way to machine these little Synthetic-Bullet-Tip molds, I had an Epiphany; an Inspiration. ( To us mere mortals, I had an idea.)

It's so simple, I can see why no one has thought of it.

I'm going to do some experimenting next week if I can. Since I have a CNC hobby mill I'll be using it to carry out these Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold experiments but, I'm confident enough right now to state that:

I can Guarantee it will work on virtually any hollow pointed bullet.

I can Guarantee it's simple enough that nearly all bullet casters can make one of their own.

I can Guarantee that if made correctly it will increase the BC of your particular cast bullet.

I can Guarantee that if you're meticulous in building it, the Synthetic-Bullet-Tips will fit your bullets' profile like a glove.

I can Guarantee it has no moving parts; no springs, no alignment pins, no milling machine needed.

This is starting to sound like an infomercial isn't it?

But wait, there's more:

I can just about Guarantee that most of you already have all the stuff to make such a mold already laying around in your garage.

You can make it as simple or as complicated as you want to. I'd advise you to keep it simple.

Here's a list of the items you'll need to make your own Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold.

You'll need: Index-Card, a drill bit and drill, a metal file, some sand paper, a razor blade, some patience and one other key-ingredient that you may or may not have on hand; if you don't you can get it at the hardware store.

If you're already a bullet caster I Guarantee this is within you range of abilities.

I also acknowledge that there will always be a select-few that may attempt to build this project but, do NOT have the mechanical aptitude for even a simple project like this.

Hope I've peaked your curiosity because these Synthetic-Bullet-Tips really can revolutionize your cast bullets.

If you'll allow me to quote my own words, "It will bring your cast bullets into the 21st century."

I looked up definitions of the word "Epiphany" and is seems to fit this Synthetic-Bullet-Tip idea.

"Epiphany is a sudden and profound understanding of something. (noun)"

"An example of epiphany is when someone has been looking for their lost keys and suddenly has an idea of where they are."

In this case it's like the key to improving the BC of your cast bullets.

I'll post updates after I've done some testing.

HollowPoint

[geargnasher]

So, where do I send my three easy payments of $39.95?, and if I order in the next ten minutes, can I get a second one free, AND a free Slap Chop??

Gear

[HollowPoint]

Gear:

Since you and the few other guys have taken the time to offer input and support and had a hand in me completing these little projects, Just make it an even One Dollar.

Paying the one dollar is the easy part. It's the four or five other agreements you have to make as part of this purchase that will test your integrity as a man and a fellow bullet caster.

To all the lurkers that just look but don't offer any input, insight or ideas, The price to you will be Two Dollars; in addition to the agreements listed below.

Following are the "Agreements."

(1) One dollar for the information/plans. Two Dollars for lurkers.

(2) A public acknowledgment that you've agreed to these terms.

(3) Your word as a man that you won't turn right around and try to make money off my idea.

(4) Your promise to never post pictures of your completed Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold project.
You can post pics of your completed bullets themselves but, in an effort to keep all the internet thieves from stealing my idea, I prefer to keep it under wraps as long as possible.

(5) You are free to post any reviews, comments or opinions of this One-or-Two-Dollar idea; good, bad or indifferent; but you must not divulge the plans of this idea regardless of your opinion about the "Idea."

If in fact this Synthetic-Bullet-Tip idea is as good as I'm claiming, I don't think I'm asking to much, do you?

BUT, I've gotten ahead of myself. I want to do my experimenting in order to perfect the simplicity of this idea.

I'll be back; unless I get booted for posting a reply that comes off sounding like a cheap infomercial.


HollowPoint

[longbow]

Wait a minute! How much is shipping and handling then?

Now you have me very curious. I have a "plan" to try this out myself using a slightly different approach than yours that I think will be easier to machine but now I may have to wait to see what else you have up your sleeve! I am all for simple even if it is going to cost me a buck or two.

By the way, I don't think your post qualifies as an infomercial because it didn't start with "Not available in stores!"

Slap Chop! HAHAHA, good one gear! I kind of miss those commercials with Vince... Slap Chop and Shamwow. I'll bet he could sell lube grooves!

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

Hi guys:

Shipping and Handling would be as free as an email. Of course I'd have to sit down and write and draw up some rudimentary instructions first.

I'm pretty sure once you see them you'll flip over the simplicity of the idea. It will be your execution of the idea that will determine the quality of you Synthetic-Bullet-Tips.

I'm afraid I came off rather jokingly in my previous post; and to some extent that was my intent but, I really did come up with what I think is a super easy solution for anyone who wants to, to make their own Synthetic-Bullet-Tips; and have them look and fit good in the process.

I thought I could finish up my experimental prototype yesterday but I found my CAM software was outputting incomplete G-Code. If it weren't for this I could have honestly stated that making the drawings and converting them to G-Code took longer than it did to machine the parts. It's that simple; even for those who don't have metal working machinery.

I may be able to finish and test my idea today if I get the time. Stay tuned for further updates.

I got your PM. Funny.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

It is funny how the brain works. Sometimes I find I go through all sorts of ideas and concepts possibly putting in much effort, then once designed/drawn and maybe even built I can suddenly see better, easier ways.

I guess once the details are taken care of and a solution found the "better" way seems obvious.

That's one of the reasons it is so easy to pick apart someone else's ideas... once they have paved the way, different and better ways seem to come from many who had no ideas to start with.

You are correct to protect your idea if you don't want someone else taking advantage and exploiting it possibly even to make money.

Remember, patents aren't to protect ideas, they are to get ideas into public domain. Proprietary information can and does get lost but patents run out then anyone can use the idea which has become public property.

So, all joking aside, if you think you have a really good idea that could make someone money, it should be you so do protect it.

Anyway, this has been an interesting and informative thread. I will be watching for future results and shooting results when you have them.

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

This time around I had no doubts that it would work. I just had to watch it as it worked to confirm it in my head.

The prototype I made up is more complicated than need be because I wanted to get some more practice in with my mill. I've only had it for two months and half that time was spent waiting for Back-Ordered parts.

This little prototype still needs finishing but I couldn't wait to try it so I fired up the Hot-Glue-Gun. I machined it for my 45 Caliber Lyman Devastator bullets and it worked perfectly. I only had five unloaded cast bullets laying around.

After I did all of those I started looking around for more but there weren't any so, I tried it on my loaded ammo. Awsome; it worked on my loaded ammo too.

I planned on re-doing the 44 caliber mold I built earlier some time in the near future. Just out of curiosity I tried some of these 44 caliber cast bullets in the same mold. This same mold worked perfectly on the 44 caliber 300 grain cast bullets as well.

I started looking around for bullets I could try. I even tried the 30 caliber but that was a No-Go.

A while back I bought a little Lee bullet mold for my -then- newly purchased 380. I hollow pointed one of the cavities in that mold and it turned out real well so, I tired using this same mold to make Synthetic-Bullet-Tips for my 380 as well.

At this point I don't really care if I sound believable or not. It worked with the little 95 grain hollow pointed 380 bullets as well.

I'll post some pics of the finished bullets next week as time permits. My work schedule will be lighter toward the end of the week but if I get a chance I can make some more Synthetic-Tips and photograph them after work.

HollowPoint

[midnight]

Ask about free shipping.

PS: I really am interested. I'll be watching this thread.

[HollowPoint]

There would be nothing to ship.

All the information you need to make the type of mold I've eluded to can be emailed.

If I worked at it I think I could design it to be a Synthetic-Bullet-Tip maker that doubles as a tomato-slicer, toe nail clipper, nasal hair trimmer all in one. Then there would be shipping charges involved.

As it is, it's just information and instructions that would need to be sent and received.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

Just a quick update on the status of my Synthetic-Bullet-Tip idea.

Yesterday I finished my scheduled works early so I was able to do a little work on perfecting the simplicity of my latest version of the Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold.

As usual, I screwed up my first attempt because I was in such a hurry. Did I mention that Patience Was Not One Of My Strong suits?

But, even that screwed up attempt worked well enough to make up some Synthetic-Tips. It only went wrong because I was trying to make up two different types of Synthetic-Tips simultaneously.
I was attempting to make both rifle and pistol bullet tip molds all at once.

I figured out the solution to doing this successfully so I'll be trying it again today after work.

On a positive side note: In the process of making up some new tips for my 45 and 44 caliber hollow points I ran out of bullets to work on so I scoured my storage closet for more hollow pointed bullets.

I came across a box of 44 caliber Speer Jacketed Hollow Points that I didn't know I had. Damned if it didn't work perfectly on jacketed hollow points too.

It occurred to me that these Synthetic-Bullet-Tips could be of benefit to those folks that own and shoot one of those finicky semi-autos that, although they'll shoot hollow pointed bullets accurately, they just won't cycle them reliably.

By installing a Synthetic-Bullet-Tip that give their hollow pointed bullets the profile of the round-nosed bullets they were originally designed for, it may cure the problem of unreliable cycling in their semi-auto's action. Of course they would have to test it for themselves.

I tested the cycling of my hollow pointed bullets wearing these Synthetic-Tips in my Kimber 1911 but, admittedly, it wasn't much of test. My Kimber is the most reliable 1911 pattern pistol I've ever own; with any kind of ammo.

I may get a chance to make it to the range next week to test some of the rifle bullets I've installed Synthetic-Bullet-Tips on. I want to make sure that there is no ill-effects to the bullets or the accuracy of the bullets when shot with the Synthetic-Tips installed.

If these Synthetic-Bullet-Tips are made symmetrically and installed symmetrically, I see no reason why they shouldn't perform just as good if not better than the same bullets without the Synthetic-Bullet-Tips in place. (I just want to make sure though)

Everything is coming together slowly but surely. I just need to get a handle on my impatience. I'm in such a hurry to finish this project and move on to my Rebated-Boat-Tailed Gas Check project that at times my impatience undermines the success of this present Synthetic-Bullet-Tip project.

Once I get it all wrapped up to where I think it's ready to be shared, I'll get to work on written instructions and diagrams. Then I'll move this Synthetic-Bullet-Tips idea to the "Swapping and Selling" area of this forum.

I'll try to post some pics of my latest Synthetic-Bullet-Tips tomorrow. You won't be disappointed.

That's it for now. I'll be Back.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I just found out that I have some unexpected work coming in tomorrow so I'll be working through the weekend and I won't be able to post any pics then.

I took a quick picture of some of the cast hollow points I've been working with just to give you an idea of what I've been eluding to.

Unfortunately, it came out a little out of focus on some of the bullets. I had the Depth-Of-Field set incorrectly on my camera.

I'll try to take some clearer pictures later on. For now, this is what I came up with during my lunch break.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

You may call them sissy looking pink swirl tips but I wouldn't want to be shot by one! I guess that makes me the sissy?

As long as they don't match your handbag or shoes you should be okay.

Looking forward with interest to your next post. This is kind of exciting.

Longbow

[geargnasher]

Looks like you got it figgered out!

Gear

[HollowPoint]

I think that for the most part I have figured it out. The area I'm having problems with is in deciding on the easiest method for simplifying the build procedure of these Synthetic-Bullet-Tip molds.

This has happened to me three times already. No sooner do I finish what I think is an easier way to do things when an even easier way becomes apparent.

It's just like longbow eluded to in post #46.

Now I've started the process of making up computer generated diagrams and written instructions including some procedural tips that will help the mold building process along.

I'm trying hard to keep the instructions as simple as possible. (more pictures than words) I want to avoid the possibility of having the simplicity of my idea being lost in a maze of long winded instructions.

Actually, the first four of five sentences of my instructions should just about cover the build procedure instructions. The rest will be pics of my trial and error method of making good Synthetic-Bullet-Tips. And some cautionary notes.

Incidently: While I have your attention I just wanted to mention a couple of things about these Synthetic-Tips; especially to those of you who are excited about the prospect of making some of your own.

Since this is hot-melt glue, this means that this glue has a low enough melting point that it would be prudent to consider the fact that in a prolonged shooting session, if the bullet is left in your gun's chamber long enough, the Synthetic-Tip may actually want to slump.

Have you ever felt the barrel of your gun after shooting a string of five or six rounds? The heat you felt on the outside of your barrel was nothing compared to the oven-like heat on the inside of the chamber. Please remember this as you're working up your loads. I will not be held responsible for another persons Laps in Judgment.

For those reloaders that like to work at or around maximum charges, these Synthetic-Bullet-Tips don't add much weight to your bullets but, they do add some weight. It would behoove you to back your charge weight down until you've established a new safe-zone for your particular cartridges. I will not be held responsible for another persons lack of Common Sense.

In our overly litigious society, we tend to want to point the finger of blame at anything or anybody we think we can in order to mitigate the degree of guilt, error or just flat out wrong doing (and its consequences) that falls squarely on our own shoulders.

I repeat: I will not be held accountable for another persons Laps in Judgment or Lack of Common Sense.

As with most things related to Bullet Casting, Reloading and Shooting Sports in general, there can be an element of danger even with something as miniscule as a Synthetic-Bullet-Tip if not applied with a mind-set of safety first. Please, don't be a Jack-A$$. BE CAREFUL.

HollowPoint

[lts70]

Awesome work HollowPoint!

I just found this thread and am glad I did. I will defiantly need to start watching all of the different sections of the forum from now on. I am relatively new to the forum and have been spending most of my time in the Cast boolit and Lead and alloy sections.

From looking at your picture it looks like you have a good thing going. This Forum truly amazes me with all of the great ideas that are came up with. I haven’t been lurking but I can’t say I would have had been able to come up with any ideas that put out as good of a product as you have achieved. For my sake I hope you keep on thinking of easier ways to accomplish this awesome Idea.

I have a 45acp RN mold from Night Owl (NOE) that has one cavity drilled for hollow point. So I am pretty excited about this!

[HollowPoint]

Thank you Its70. I appreciate the kind word.

The fact is, I'm just a No-Name-Goober with some CAD/CAM software, a Small Milling machine and a few ideas but, there are alot of pretty sharp folks on this forum. I've learned quite a bit since joining myself. And there's still alot more to learn.

Since I'm having to work through the weekend I stayed up late last night reloading some 303 British cartridges I hope to get a chance to test next week sometime.

I also got a chance to make up some more Synthetic-Bullet-Tips for my Lyman 45 caliber Devastator hollow points. This time around I used one of the Green Hot-Glue sticks. They look pretty darn good if I say so myself.

I hope I don't get kicked of the shooting range for shooting what looks like Teflon-coated Green-Tip bullets. If memory serves, Green-Tips are designated amour piercing rounds; and the light gray color of lead may be mistaken for a teflon coating to one of our more ignorant range masters.

This is the last photo I'll be posting of these Synthetic-Bullet-Tips. I think by now I've run out of photo-posting space on this forum. I may have to take down a few pics to make room for updated pictures.

From here on out I'll be concentrating on putting together some simple instructions on how to go about making one of these Synthetic-Bullet-Tips molds for yourself. It won't be to much longer before I can offer these plans and instructions to those of you who may be interested.

If all goes well I'll be able to complete this project before the end of next week.

Many thanks to those of you who've offered up insight and input throughout this process.

HollowPoint.

[longbow]

Those really do look good!

Looking forward to range results.

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

I finally finished putting together the Plans and Instructions for building one of these Synthetic-Bullet-Tip Molds.

I've converted it to a PDF file for easy emailing to recipients with faster internet connections. For slower internet connections and computers I'll be able to send a series of three separate emails back-to-back so that it won't bog your computer down.

All that's left for me to do is to get to the range for some shooting tests. I've scheduled tomorrow morning for that very thing. I'll be shooting my 45, 44 and my 303 British.

I haven't shot my 44 magnum Puma M92 with these full power loads for quite some time. I'll have to remember to stop on the way home and buy some Bengay oinment. It's been a while since I shot my Enfield as well.

All I'll be testing for this time around is general functionalityand checking for any POI changes and cycling through my actions without any failure to feed-type of things.

I've cycled all of these guns with cartridges wearing these Synthetic Bullet Tips at home with no problems. I just want to see if there are any differences once the barrels get warmed up.

I may be ready to move this post over to the Swapping and Selling area as early as Wednesday or Thursday depending on how my shooting tests go.

I just wanted to give those of you who my be interested a heads-up before doing so.

I'll try to post an update of my shooting session tomorrow evening.

That's it for now. I'll check in again later.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I new I was in trouble when I peered through the rear peep sight and the front sight of my old Enfield looked like an undistinguishable blur.

I should have taken the time to make up some make-shift scope-mounts but, again, I was in to much of a darn hurry.

The sights on my Puma M92 were a little better cause the front sight is a little thicker and not quite as far
forward.

Same with the sights on my full sized Kimber 1911.

I have Good News and Frustrating News to report about shooting certain bullets with these Synthetic Bullet Tips installed.

The good news is that there were absolutely now problems with feeding, ejecting or cycling with either the pistol or rifle bullets.

The pistol bullets especially shot real well for me. The Puma lever action had been sighted in for low powered 240 grain semi-wad cutters so when I shot these heavier full power loads the point of impact was different.

At twenty-five yards my Kimber 45 shot the Devastator slugs wearing the Synthetic Bullet Tips low and to the right in a fairly good cluster. (about 3" shooting off hand) The 45 caliber bullets were punching holes that looked more like they had pierced the target rather than punched through like a semi-wad cutter.

The rifle bullets were a different story all together. I took my first shot with the rifle while I was testing the 45 caliber Kimber. I wanted to make sure I could at least hit the paper.

At 25 yards, my very first shot from the Enfield rifle spit out a bullet that Key-Holed. Although it did confirm my suspicions about needing these Synthetic Bullet Tips to be made perfectly concentric and installed perfectly concentric, I wasn't really sure what to make of it. These same Lyman 311291 cast hollow points always flew straight and true when shot without the Synthetic Tips in place.

The frustration mounted as shot after shot tended to Key-Hole. In the end, after shooting 25 rounds of these 303 British cartridges wearing Synthetic Bullet Tips, over half of them had Key-Holed. The rounds that didn't Key-Hole tended to impact in a vertical string on the left side of the black. (see pics below)

I haven't lost my confidence in the idea of Synthetic Bullet Tips. I know they'll work otherwise none of my rifle rounds would have shot without Key-Holing. You'll notice from the pictures that the profiles of the Key-Hole shots show that the Synthetic Bullet Tips are still in place on the bullets.

In trying to figure out why some Key-Holed and some didn't, the only thing I could think of was the fact that these Synthetic Tips were installed on a batch of cast hollow points bullets that I had lubed and Gas-Checked last year. It's possible that when I tumble lubed them some of the hollow point cavities had been clogged with Liquid Alox so that my Synthetic Tips were off center somehow.

Of course this is just speculation. I'm going to have to do more testing to get to the bottom of this. I'll also have to take the time to make up some scope mounts for my Enfield. That shouldn't be to hard. I already made a set of scope mounts for my lever action when I was working up those low powered loads.

I don't want to move this topic to the Swapping and Selling section of this forum until I can figure out exactly what the cause of the Key-Holing is. I think I already know the reason but I need to make sure first.

I'd hate to run the risk of having an otherwise, Good Idea Thrown-Under-The-Bus because someone wasn't able to get them to work for them. If these Synthetic Bullet Tips were just for cast pistol bullets I could move this subject over to the Swapping and Selling section right now but, I want to get the bugs out of my rifle bullet experiments first.

That's really the main reason I've been working on this Synthetic Bullet Tip project in the first place. I've been wanting to improve the BC of my cast hollow pointed rifle bullets.

That's it for now. I'll be back when I get some more time to do more experimenting.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

Yesterday I was able to finish up my scheduled work early so I got a chance to put together a temporary scope-mount for my Enfield. I got the scope mounted and sort of Eye-Ball sighted in.

That was Step-1 of the process of trying to figure out exactly why my initial testing of these Synthetic-Bullet-Tips were causing my bullets to Key-Hole.

For Step-2, I plan on working with Virgin-Cast hollow points next time around; just to eliminate the possibility of my bullet lube accumulating in the hollow point cavities and maybe having enough ill-effects my my bullet's symmetry/concentricity to make them Key-Hole.

Step-3 will be to shorten the length of the hollow point cavity of this particular bullet. In its present configuration, this Lyman 311291 has a hollow point cavity a hair over a half inch deep. I've made up a new hollow pointing spud that will give me a hollow point cavity close to a quarter inch.

In trying to figure out what may have caused the Key-Holing effect of my previous bullets I pictured in my mind something similar to a dumb-bell with differing weights at either end.

The tail-end of my bullet being one end and the nose end of my bullet being the other. If you were to pick up such a dumb-bell from the very center, it would naturally tip to the heavier end.

This is a very loose analogy but, in the same way, I pictured the weight distribution of this particular rifle bullet in flight. Once the Synthetic-Bullet-Tip had been installed, it most likely threw the bullet out of balance at the nose. It may or may not have any positive effect but, by shortening the hollow point cavity I hope to make the weight distribution of my bullet slightly more equalized.

This is only speculation on my part; kind of iffy at best. Since some of my bullets made it to my target without tumbling I'm trying to find the real answer in small steps. Step-1 is now completed. Now on to Steps-2 through 3. Since a countless multitude of bullets wearing Synthetic-Bullets-Tips have been sold and shot successfully, I'm confident that it's only a matter of time before I come up with the answer to my questions about the Key-Holing I experienced. (I just thought of something as I was writing; maybe my velocity was just to darn slow for this bullet with the Synthetic Tips in place:?:)

I got some free time this afternoon, I plan on sacrificing a couple Synthetic-Tipped jacketed rifle bullets for analysis. I just want to do some measuring and comparison of the tips on those bullets. It may give me a clue of the weight ratios and lengths of these tips that seem to perform as designed.

To all of you that are curious about what's happening with this Synthetic-Bullet-Tips project, that's it for now. I'll be back with updated periodically and as time permits.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

I don't think weight distribution is the issue. A lighter nose is desirable and many HP bullets/boolits are more accurate than solid.

I am thinking it may be a distortion/eccentricity issue. If those synthetic tips aren't dead center or aren't exactly symmetrical they may be "steering" the boolits. It may only take a few thou off center or tilted to cause a problem, so not obviously visible.

Think of paper patched boolits and the need for clean release of the patch, and think of the quality of boolit casting you would accept for accurate shooting ~ if you had any slump, rounded edges, etc. you would expect those boolits to give poor accuracy. It doesn't take much to upset a bullet's flight.

Of course this is speculation on my part.

Have you put the boolits (with tips) in a jig to spin them and check tip concentricity?

Whatever it is I hope you get to the root of the problem and get it sorted out.

Good luck and I hope you are successful.

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

"Have you put the boolits (with tips) in a jig to spin them and check tip concentricity?"

This was the first thing I did before ever firing a shot. Although I didn't use a jig of any kind, what I did do was place the bullet on a flat tilted surface and allow them to roll just fast enough to see if the tips were bobbing up and down.

I suppose I could chuck one up in a collet holder to test for run-out with a gauge. That would eliminate run-out as a contributing factor. I'll give it a shot; just in case.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

Looks like you got the concentricity issue covered then. If you can't easily see any misalignment then you are probably close enough.

I am not sure just how much error it would take to "steer" a boolit but since softpoint "J" bullets often get the nose blunted/bent in magazines but still shoot reasonably well I have to figure you would see it if the error was enough to cause grief.

Hmmmm, I wonder if it might be a rigidity thing. I am thinking that most commercial plastic tips are quite hard. Is it possible that these are flexible enough to deflect or "wiggle" at high velocity/RPM? After all, if you are pushing them to even 1600 FPS in a 1:10" twist they are spinning at 115200 RPM.

Longbow

Just thinking out loud here.

[HollowPoint]

I suppose it's possible that deflection could be the cause. When you consider that the Synthetic Tips I used on my pistol bullets had shanks on them that were a fairly thick diameter, in comparison, the shanks on the rifle bullet's Synthetic Tips were relatively thin; even though the actual Tip itself was not much bigger in diameter than the shank.

On the pistol bullet's Synthetic Tips, the height of the Tip itself was slightly less than the diameter of the Shank. On the rifle bullet, the height of the Synthetic Tip is close to double that of the diameter of the shank so, you may very well be correct in your "thinking out loud."

I haven't gotten the chance to take apart one of my store-bought Synthetic Tipped jacketed bullets yet. If it turns out that the shank diameter is as large as the Tip is high, then you might be onto something. I'll check it out.

One of the ways I can test for that possibility too, is to make a hollow pointing spud that will give me a shank diameter that's just a little larger than the present configuration. It might stabilize any deflection the RPS's may be imparting.

For the time being I'm going to follow through with my original plans of taking "Steps-1 through 3" to see what effects I come up with; then I'll test for deflection.

I've wondered if my bullets were flying to slowly for the added length that my Synthetic Tips have given to my bullet's overall. Even if that isn't the case I think I'll increase the velocity slightly just to eliminate that as a possibility.

I'll work on it some more tomorrow to see what I come up with. Thanks for the input. It gives me some food for thought.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I got a chance to take apart three of the store-bought V-Max bullets this morning. (55 gr, 35 grain and 165 grain) You were right about those manufactured Synthetic Tips being extremely hard. I'd say they were harder with more rigidity than the lead cores they were imbedded in.

On these V-Max bullets; generally, the shanks of these store-bought Tips were at least twice as long as the very Tips were; and their diameters were only a tiny bit smaller than the widest point of the Tip itself. A good analogy would be to picture the profile of an archery/arrow. The arrow shaft would be only slightly smaller in diameter than the widest point of the arrow head. (and very,very stiff)

So what does all this mean? Well, to me it means that longbow may have very well hit the nail on the head with his "Deflection" theory.

I've cast a brand new batch of 60 Bullets. I was going to make up a new hollow-pointing-spud but I discovered that by simply turning the existing spud-stem around, the other end of this same spud had a Cup-Point tip on it. I simply milled some of the material off the Cup-Point end so that it gave me a hollow point cavity of a little over a quarter inch deep.

I milled it so that the shank of my Synthetic Tip would be only slightly smaller in diameter than the widest point of the Tip.

I'll try to post a couple of pics of what I'm talking about early next week. I'm hoping to get some more free time to test shoot another 20 or 30 rounds next week; half with the Synthetic Tips on and half with the Tips off.

I'm kind of limited as to the number of rounds I can shoot because I only have 31 usable pieces of 303 brass on hand. If the past is any indication, I may loose a few of those pieces of brass in my next shooting session.

In the past, my 303 brass only seemed to last about three our four firings before giving up the ghost; and that was if I neck sized only.

I'll be back.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

HollowPoint:

I have found that my Lee Enfield chambers are very large and even just neck sizing results in excessive working of the brass because the RCBS die sizes down to 0.310" inside neck, then I seat a 0.315" boolit in them so stretch them back out. It is also hard on the boolits by the way.

My temporary solution was to neck anneal every couple of firings and to make a 0.314" expander button. This is no easier on brass but is on the boolits and accuracy improved.

My long term solution was to buy a Lee collet sizing die and make a 0.3135" mandrel so I am not working brass much at all.

Long explanation but my brass is lasting well.

If you are not annealing your brass give that a try and it should help. If you are then try the Lee collet die. It is inexpensive and apparently you do not need to use a mandrel in it so it can be dialed to give whatever final necksize you want just by adjusting it. I already made a custom mandrel so will just keep using it.

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

Except for actually going to the range for another Synthetic Bullet Tips testing session, I've completed the other steps in trying to figure out the cause of the Key-Holing I experienced the last time I was out.

I finished making up a new batch of bullets and Synthetic Bullet Tips in a different configuration so as to hopefully mitigate the chance of a repeat performance as my previous range session.

I was also able to modify the tip on my Hot Glue gun so that I was able to insert the tip/barrel of my glue gun all the way down into the cavity of my mold in order to get a complete fill out each time.

Originally I intended for this modification to be a simple lengthening of my Glue-Gun's tip. That would be done by simply attaching one of those needles used for airing up footballs and basket balls. (with the very tip cut off) I had one in my shop somewhere but I couldn't find the darn thing so I broke down and turned one of my old brass punches to the proper dimensions and it worked like gang-busters.

I'll be loading up my 30 cartridges of 303 British this afternoon after work. With any luck I may be able to get away on Wednesday for a shooting session.

In the mean time, I've posted another pic of some of the changes I've made. Thanks to the input from longbow, I'm thinking that I may finally have this thing licked.

The Synthetic Bullet Tip molds for my hollow pointed pistol bullets are working reliably and accurately; it's the rifle bullets that have thrown a monkey-wrench into my plans thus far.

Hopefully, after Wednesday's shooting session that will be behind me and I can move on from there.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

Those are looking good!

Here's hoping range testing goes well.

Longbow

[Walter Laich]

Just wondering does the different color glue sticks weigh the same? I would think so but you never know

walt

[HollowPoint]

Hi Walt:

That's a good question. I'm not sure how I'd go about weighing the different colored sticks themselves. None of them seem to be exactly the same.

Unfortunately all the latest Synthetic Tips I made have already been installed onto my bullets. Out of curiosity I did weigh some of the biggest 44 caliber Black-colored tips. I weighed five of them and they all weighed a constant 4.4 grains. They're the Synthetic Tips that look like little black mushrooms.

I also weighed some of the first rifle bullet Synthetic Tips; also in the black color. They weighed 1.1 grains each. The needle on my scale just barely moved either high or low. They seemed to be pretty consistent weight-wise.

I wish I had some of these same Synthetic Tips in different colors so I could check to see if the colors made any difference but, unfortunately I didn't.

I'll try to remember to weigh them once I get to the point where my present colored Hot-Glue stick is running out and I transition to a different color.

I got a black stick in my glue gun right now. It's nearing the end of its life so I'll put a red stick in right behind it and try to remember to weigh the same Synthetic-Bullet-Tips in each color. You got me curious now.

Thanks for the inquiry.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I couldn't believe it.

Out of thirty loaded rounds, every freaken one Key-Holed; even the ones without the Synthetic Bullet Tips on them.

This time around I had 20 loaded with the bullets wearing Synthetic Tips and 10 without. I figured I'd use the ones without the Tips to sight in my newly mounted scope.

My first shot was at just 25 yards to sight in the scope. I kind of got happy when the bullet struck the target because the impact didn't sound as much like the slapping sound these bullets made the last time I was out. Even from twenty-five yards I could see that the holes my bullets were making on the target were smaller too.

Upon closer inspection it was obvious that the bullets weren't punching through the paper target dead-on. They were on the verge of Key-Holing at 25 yards. When I moved my target back to 50 yards the impact holes were closer to the full Key-Hole profiles I was getting the last time I tested these bullets wearing the Synthetic Tips.

I'm not sure what to make of this. These same bullets used to shoot straight and true before I had to switch over to this new/different Enfield barreled-action.

I did a close check of the bullets themselves under a magnifying glass to see if they were out of round somehow but, other than the seam-line that showed were the two halves of my bullet mold meet, I could find no signs of anything that may be causing the bullets to tumble.

They're sized to .314" diameter to fit the slugged barrel of this gun. I think I'm going to try one last time to shoot these same bullets wearing Synthetic Tips but, this time I'll size them down a little further and try shooting them in my K31.

I know my K31 is a shooter. If these particular Cast Hollow Points are out of round somehow and the added Synthetic Bullet Tips are just enough to cause them to Key-Hole, maybe by sizing them down to the .309" diameter that I shoot through my K31 it will stabilize them.

I can't think of anything else I can do right now other than try another gun. I have one other hollow pointed rifle bullet mold I can try. Those particular bullets drop from the mold a little to small to work in my Enfield though. I may take some of those along when I test with my K31.

I'll keep plucking away till I get some answers. On the one hand it would absolutely SUCK if it was just the bullets themselves that were the problem all along. And it would really SUCK if it was my old Enfield rifle causing this grief. I'll have to try some plain-jane round nose cast bullets in the Enfield just to rule it out as the cause of the Key-Holing.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

I found that I had to size 0.315" to suit my Lee Enfield throat to get good accuracy and I also found that oven heat treating helped as well.

It seems some loads, not necessarily hot, were tending to start skipping the rifling. I had not had this trouble in my .308 but it has 1:12" twist while the Lee Enfield has 1:10" twist.

You might try oven heat treating, it is easy to do and it might help.

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

Hi longbow:

.314" is the largest I can go with this particular Lyman bullet. If my size or my alloy was off for this rifle's bore, I would think it would have given me some leading as proof.

Even though the this rifle has a pitted bore in spots, I get no noticeable leading with this bullet; just tumbling bullets.

As I stated earlier, these bullets were cast last year. At the time the alloy was in the 16-18 BHN levels. By now they may be even harder.

The frustrating part of all this is that I suspect the cause of this Key-Holing is something very basic and I'm looking at it in too complicated of a way. I'm going to have to get back to basics with this old Enfield.

In the mean time I'll try shooting them out of a rifle known to shoot extremely well. That should give me an indication if the bullets themselves are the problem, (shooting plain bullets without the Tips) the old Enfield is the problem or it's just that the Synthetic Bullet Tips are just not compatible with this hollow point bullet design.

That's it for now. I'll be back.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

I got a chance to put together a batch of 7.5x55 Swiss cartridges for testing the Lyman 311291 cast bullets wearing Synthetic Tips that were Key-Holing when shot out of my Enfield.

I also made up a few cartridges with the Lyman 311359 cast bullets wearing Synthetic Tips as well. This is a shorter bullet weighing 130 grains as opposed to the 170 grain bullets that were tumbling on me.

I was only able to put together a few with the Synthetic Bullet Tips on these shorter bullets cause my Hot Glue gun died on me. I'm hoping that the shorter length and lighter weight will have the effect of stabilizing them in flight.

Included in this small batch of test bullets are a few solids and plain hollow points without the Synthetic Tips on them. I wanted to be able to compare similar bullets of the same mold to one another.

There are also a few of my accuracy loads for this particular cartridge included in this batch. It's the NOE 200 grain Spitzer GC bullet. I've gotten exceptional accuracy with this bullet out of my K31.

If all else fails, I'll be consoled by the performance of this combination of NOE bullets, powder, primer and brass.

I have a busy couple of weeks coming up. This time of year it never fails, customers wanting all their stuff done before Christmas. It may be a while before I can get to the range again.

I'll keep you posted on the results when I do finally get the chance to go out and test a few more.

I noticed there's a typo in the pic I've provided. In the upper right corner I've mistakenly wrote down the Lyman 311357. It's actually, 311359.

HollowPoint.

[Walter Laich]

Welfare check

just checking to see how things are going?

[HollowPoint]

Hi there Walt:

My latest batch of loaded ammo wearing these Synthetic Bullet tips is still sitting in my storage closet just waiting to be shot.

With a bit of luck I may be able to get to the shooting range either Wednesday or Friday of this week. I've been really busy with work so I haven't been able to get away. This week is a bit less hectic.

I'm hoping it doesn't rain on either of those two days because I've been itching to get the results of these Synthetic Bullet Tip tests.

I haven't forgotten about you all and no-way I've given up on this idea and, incidently, the Enfield I was shooting the previous bullets in is now officially a wall-hanger until I can get it re-barreled.

I took it apart for inspection yesterday and found that my barrel wasn't on straight. I can't explain why, and I'm not saying it was the reason for the Key-Holing I was experiencing with these Synthetic Tipped bullets, it's just one more thing needing my attention.

Thanks for the inquiry. I'll be back with an update a little later.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

Sorry everyone;

I woke up with the flu on Tuesday. It's Friday now and I still feel like hell. I'll try to make it to the range as soon as I'm able.

I got to go throw up now. I'll be back.

Holloooowoooowww

[HollowPoint]

After about three long weeks of scrambling to get my Christmas-Rush work done, and then having to deal with the flu for another couple of weeks, I finally felt good enough to make the 40-plus mile round trip to the shooting range today.

The Synthetic Tipped Bullets I loaded a few weeks back finally proved to me that all of this was worth the effort.:cast_boolits:

I can't explain why the previous two batches were all Key-Holing on me. I suspect it had something to do with the old Lee Enfield rifle I was shooting them out of but, this is just speculation. I really don't know why they wouldn't shoot well out of that rifle.

Anyway, today when I shot these same bullets wearing the Synthetic-Bullet-Tips out of my K31 Swiss rifle, (a proven to be accurate rifle) each and every bullet flew straight and true.

Although I didn't go to the range to test for accuracy, I got decent accuracy none the less.

I attribute this to Dumb-Luck more than anything else. After the poor performances I experienced the last couple of times I was out at the range testing these Synthetic-Tipped Bullets, I was more than just a little happy to see that this idea does indeed have merit worthy of the attention of Cast Boolit target shooters and Hunters.

It was a crowded day at the range today. All the newbies that got a gun for Christmas were out doing their best impersonation of an experienced gun owner.

I fired my first shot at 50 yards using the NOE 200 grain Spitzer. My rifle was sighted in at 200 yards from the last time I was out testing my bullets. I wanted to see how high I was shooting at that range so I could stair-step my way down to the bulls eye before running out of bullets.
Wouldn't you know it; I ran out of the NOE bullets before I could zero in on the bulls-eye.

You can't imagine how excited I was when I shot the fifty yard group using my Lyman 311291 cast bullets wearing the Synthetic-Bullet-Tips. I knew it would work. I knew it would work. I just don't know why it wasn't working before.

No more Key-Holing; just a tight cluster of nice little 30 caliber holes. What a relief. These Synthetic Tips really work.

I took along some lighter weight cast bullets but I wasn't able to shoot them cause I didn't seat them deep enough into the case to be able to chamber them. Oh well; I'm confident now that even the lighter weight cast hollow point bullets wearing Synthetic-Bullet-Tips should work like gang-busters. They should make an excellent coyote round.

This success clears the way for me to finally offer up this idea for sale in the Swappin And Selling area of this forum. I'll be selling the instructions only; not the Synthetic-Bullet-Tips or molds themselves. This is so easy that some of you are going to krapp your pants when you see how it's done.

If you've been following this subject you already know what the terms will be for the purchase of this Synthetic-Bullet-Tips mold idea. If you haven't been following this thread, please take the time to read up on it from beginning to end if you can.

I'll be posting the Synthetic-Bullet-Tip mold idea for sale this weekend. It will be priced so that even the most financially-challenged among us will be able to afford it.

Many thanks to the very small handful of guys who gave their suggestions and their input in the development of this Synthetic-Bullet-Tips mold idea.

I hope it works out even better for you than it has for me.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

Congratulations on your success! Those look great and seem to shoot as well as they look. Your hard work paid off!

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

Many thanks Longbow:

It was good to get out of the house. I hate being trapped at home for any reason; let alone due to illness.

I can now call this project done and move on to the Rebated-Boat-Tailed Gas Checks project I mentioned in one of my other posts.

HollowPoint

[MikeS]

HollowPoint: I must say I'm not real interested in synthetic tips, but if I was, I still wouldn't send you $2.00 for your info. You did lots of development work picking the brains of many folks here on the forum. Where would this forum be if everyone that had an idea for something after discussing it for over 3 pages decided to sell the info, rather than just posting it openly in the forum? There are so many people here that have done things to promote cast boolit shooting, that just gave away their ideas. What if Beagle said "Send me $2.00 and I'll send you info on making your moulds cast a boolit that's larger in diameter than it's currently casting"? Or if Ken said "You want to post more than 100 postings, then the charge to do that is $5.00 per hundred messages" or any other of the many folks that have made contributions to the cast boolit world? Now if you wanted to actually build tip moulds, and sell those, I would see no problem with that, but what you're basically doing is saying "I had an idea of how to do this, and after bouncing it around with several forum members, I've come up with a way anyone can make a mould for themselves, and for just $2.00 I'll send you a PDF file of how to do it." and I personally think that stinks. If you were to post how to do it here for anyone to see, then said you also had a PDF that explains how to do it in detail that you want to sell, I would again have no problem with that, and I bet you would still sell as many as you have, maybe a few more, or a few less, but it would come across MUCH better that way.

As I said in the beginning, I have no plans on making boolit tips synthetic or otherwise, so what you're doing doesn't matter to me one way or the other, just think of all the good things that have come out of this forum, and where they would be if everyone did as you're doing, selling copies of your idea. (for any amount of money, the amount isn't the issue)

I might be way off base, but I'll bet that there are other forum members that had/have the same thoughts I do, but didn't want to say anything.

[HollowPoint]

Hi Mike:

I'm sorry all of this seems to have rubbed you the wrong way.

I suspect that if Beagle or Ken had done as you've eluded to they'd
have just a few more dollars in their pockets with which to pay bills.

I can't presume to speak for either one of them but, there is a possibility
that after having graciously shared their ideas they may have wondered
to themselves if maybe they didn't deserve some kind of compensation
for their efforts. Personally, I think they do but, I'm bias that way.

I've never dealt with either of these gentlemen but, of the several times
I've come across their post on this forum they've struck me as individuals
similar to myself; in that they like to come up with and promote new ideas.

My internet bill is $49.95 a month. Even with the several sets of instructions that I've sold already,
the sum total of what they've paid still hasn't reached half that amount.

And, after PayPal takes out their cut, and the IRS takes out their cut,
and my tax preparer takes out her cut, that's as close as giving my ideas away
as I can afford.

Thanks for your input.

HollowPoint

[kentuckycajun]

Personally, I think that Hollowpoint has spent quite a few $ (on aluminum blocks, hardware, glue sticks, re-tooling HP molds, etc), not to metion what his TIME is worth (my time is worth about $25/hr) - so at $2 for a tried and proven method, this makes me feel like I would be ripping HIM off. This is something I would like to try in the future, and most of the R&D has been done FOR me by HP. How is this not a good deal?

[MikeS]

My internet bill is $49.95 a month. Even with the several sets of instructions that I've sold already,
the sum total of what they've paid still hasn't reached half that amount.

And, after PayPal takes out their cut, and the IRS takes out their cut,
and my tax preparer takes out her cut, that's as close as giving my ideas away
as I can afford.

Thanks for your input.

HollowPoint

That's exactly my point. As you can see already, you're not going to make much money selling the plans @ $2.00 a pop. But, if you had published them here (given them away) you would probably get back much more in good will. There's an old saying 'What goes around comes around'. If it's more a matter that you just feel like folks that want the info should have to put something into it (in this case money), then you might have been better off offering the plans PDF as a site benefit listing. If that had been the case, I'd probably buy a set, just to support the site, if for no other reason. And if I had been one of those people that DID help you come up with these plans, or should I say helped you refine them, then you offered them to me for half price like you did, I would really be upset. I mean where was it, on the 3rd or 4th page of this thread where you finally came up with the finalized plans, and offered them for sale? Those plans are NOT purely of your design, but only came about after you bounced ideas off several forum members here.

But hey, I'm only one person, and others seem fine with the idea of giving you money for your plans, so more power to ya. Just don't be surprised if/when the karma comes around to bite you on the rear.

[HollowPoint]

Great news for those of you who don't own a Hot-Glue Gun.

I got a chance to try out an idea with these Synthetic Bullet Tips molds. On Monday after noon I tried using some Silicone Calking in place of the Hot Melt Glue that I have been using. The Molds themselves are the same; just a different medium that's all.

When allowed to fully cure this Silicone dries to a hardened rubber consistency that should be a little better suited to mitigating inadvertent detonations in tube-magazine lever guns with high recoil.

An added benefit is that fact that the cured Silicone won't as readily take on permanent deformations like the Hot Melt Glue tips if stored Nose-side-down or if stored with the Tips resting against something that could alter their shape.

There are some down-sides though. For one, Silicone takes a whole lot longer to cure. It's not like the Hot Melt Glue that take less than a minute. We're talking a couple of days here as apposed to 40 or 50 seconds.

Another thing is the cost of a tube of Silicone. It can be pricy depending on where you get it and the colors are more or less limited to black or white.

The viscosity of Silicone seems slightly less that Hot Melt Glue in its melted state so in theory that should mean that for most users you should be able to make Synthetic Tip Molds with slightly smaller injections holes for a more pointed streamlined Tip.

I'm just in the preliminary stages of testing this new medium. I thought I'd mention it for those of you who didn't want to have to buy an expensive Hot Glue Gun.

Once I get a few more samples made up I'll post some pictures.

Trying to bring my cast bullets into the 21st century. The quest continues.

HollowPoint

[Christorbust]

Hollowpoint,

Interesting thread indeed.

I was wondering if you (or anyone who has the design) planned to do any expansion properties testing?

The advantage of the tips is to have the ballistic coefficient of pointed bullets, but the expansion properties of hollow points right?

I know some hp bullets have plugs to keep them from filling with clothing or such, and it would be interesting to see how the differing plug materials affect expansion. When I have a hp mold I think this would be my area of interest/experimenting.

(Subscribed)

[HollowPoint]

Hi Cristorbust:

I see the point of what you're asking. It's something I asked myself while developing these Synthetic Bullet Tips.

My main goal was to get them to fly straight and true from my firearms. (interior and exterior ballistics) Thankfully, I have now confirmed this in all of the guns I've shot my cast hollow points wearing these Synthetic Tips. (the exception of the old Enfield that I'm now in the process of re-barreling)

As time permits, I can now move on to testing the "Terminal Ballistics" of my cast hollow point with and without the Synthetic Tips in place.

The plans and instructions for making these Synthetic Bullets Tips molds are now in the hands of enough other bullet casters that hopefully some of these other guys here will eventually chime in with answers they've found to these same questions.

With enough different guys coming at this from different angles, I have no doubt that some of them will inevitably come up with "Better Mouse Traps;" so to speak.

Stay tuned for coming attractions. Thanks for asking.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

It's been some time since I posted any updates on this thread.

For the most part I think I got everything about this project working out just as I'd hoped.

I have been continuing my experiments using Silicon Calk media as a replacement for the Hot Glue that these Synthetic Tips were originally designed around. My first couple of tests were done using bearing-grease as my mold lubricant.

It did work but the grease was just thick enough that it transfered some uneven spots onto the surface of my bullet tips. Also; it takes a heck of alot of time for the Silicone to setup to the right consistency.

I tested other lubricants but, since they were all petroleum based, they tend to mesh with the Silicone over time and bond with the walls of my mold cavities causing a cleanup chore that necessitates a whole lot of foul language.

In my present test I'm using butter as my lubricant. ("I can't believe It's not butter"-brand) I set it aside for a couple of days then I check to see if the mold releases my cast bullet with a perfectly formed tip on it.

Some may see it as an awful lot of trouble for not alot of gain but, to me it's a good way of negating any potential detonations in my 44 lever action loaded with full power loads. Also; not everyone owns a Hot-Glue-Gun or wants to pay for a new one. If they have the patience, this is just another way to get around having to use Hot-Glue as your Synthetic Bullet Tip media.

When I cast for my 44, I cast up a bunch of them so I don't have to cast anymore for a year. This means that I can set some aside for the same length of time to allow the Silicone to setup. I just need to find the right lubricant that won't degrade or evaporate or bond with the Silicone over time.

I finally re-barreled the old Enfield that was giving me fits during the testing phase of this Synthetic Bullet Tips project.

I'll be taking it out to the desert soon for Proof-Testing the barrel. I'll be taking some of my cast hollow points wearing Synthetic Tips so I can test them to compare any differences in the "Mushrooming" effects they have with and without the Synthetic Tips in place.

That's it for now. I'll be back to let you know how my Terminal Ballistics test went.

HollowPoint