50/90 Sharps

[The Goose]

I am fairly new here and have only posted a few times, although I have lurked for a long time. However, I am fairly active on Norteastshooters.com. Below are two threads that I posted over there that I thought might be relevant to the Black Powder Cartridge forum here:



About 2 years ago I acquired a Pedersoli Quigley model Sharps. It it has a 34" barrel and I replaced the factory sights with a Montana Vintage Arms midrange Soule rear tang sight and a Kelly globe front sight with a spirit level. I got my hands on 20 pieces of brass and locally the only bullet I could find was some 425 gr bullets meant for the 50/70 round, I loaded them up with some smokeless 5744 powder. The results were abysmal. I could barely get on the paper at 50 yards. I was discouraged. I started doing some reading; Paul Mathews, Mike Venturino, Steve Garbe etc and began experimenting with black powder. I also got into bullet casting. I experimented with different powders, bullets, lubes, primers and so on. Always I tried to change only one thing at a time. Sometimes I got dome decent results and other times I was shooting 10" groups at 100 yards. There are just so many variables involved with loading and shooting the BPCR

Yesterday I was at the range and had the best session I have ever had. I may be getting close finally (to what I have no clue). The best bullet I have found so far, for my rifle is a 700 gr. roundnose designed by Dave Higgenbotham of Lone Star Rifle co. in Conroe, Texas, the mold is made by NEI. He calls it his "buffalo bullet" and references loading it over 100 grs of 2F. I cast this bullet from a 20:1 alloy and use SPG lube. It is sized to .512 on a Lyman sizer. The brass is Starline and the primer is Winchester Magnum Large Rifle. I use Swiss 1.5 powder, 95 grs. weighed exactly on a scale for consistency then dropped down a 24" drop tube then a Walters .060 vegetable fiber wad and a slight compression on the load.

Below is one of my targets from yesterday. The single hole to the lower right is a fouling shot from a clean and cold barrel, then 10 consecutive shots with 3 breaths through a blow tube between each shot. (at 100 yards) Not bad for for a 139 year old round loaded with black powder from an equally old rifle design with iron sights.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/Big50001.jpg


The round

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/BigFifty002.jpg


and the rifle

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/BigFifty013.jpg


Second Thread:


Those of you who read my recent post on the .50-90 Sharps know that I finally found a pretty good load for my Pedersoli Quigley Sharps. Of course I cannot leave well enough alone so now I am working on some loads for my other .50-90. This one is a rolling block made by Lonestar Rifle Co. It has a very heavy Green Mountain barrel with the traditional Remington style combination (rough & ready) rear sight and a Beach front sight. Although this rifle weighs a tad over 13 pounds the recoil is absolutely savage. I can see why the old buffalo rifles typically weighed 16 pounds, I cannot imagine firing 100 + rounds a day for extended periods of time with this rifle.

I tried two loads for this monster. Both had the same 700 gr. roundnose bullet cast 20:1 sized to .512 and lubed with SPG. Also Winchester magnum rifle primers and a .060 Walter’s wad with slight compression. One load was 95 grains of Swiss 1 ½ and the other was 100 grains of Goex 2F. Three breaths through a blow tube between each shot and I swabbed the barrel every 10 shots. I put a total of 60 rounds down range and my shoulder is pounding today. As Mike Venturino put it, the .50-90 is “a thumper at both ends”. Some results are below.

As a side note I have to say, why would anyone in their right mind shoot a .50-90? The .45-70 will do everything the .50-90 can do and more with less recoil, less powder, less lead and a plethora of loading data already available. To make it worse I shoot two of these rifles. I can see why this round was only used briefly and only by professional hide hunters. I suppose the other application, back in the day, would be in Grizzly Bear country. Faced with an enraged charging Grizzly I suspect that no round is too large and recoil would be a very distant secondary concern. Yesterday I was careless on my first shot and the rifle jumped back, the hammer spur punched a hole in my cheek. Lots of blood. Woo hoo!

10 shots with 95 grains of Swiss 1 1/2
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/Lonestar005-1.jpg

12 shots with Goex 2F
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/Lonestar011.jpg

The beast at rest
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/Lonestar004-1.jpg

Another view
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/Lonestar003-1.jpg

Go ahead, make my day!
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/Lonestar009.jpg

[zardoz]

Goose,

Great looking rifles there.

I saw you posted in my 50/90 thread about the crimping.

Do you crimp all the 50/90's that made these shots?

I got the Lyman 515 grain boolit mould, and just started with those, and had some better results when I moved to 100 yards. Still learning this finicky beast myself.

I may order one of those NEI 700 grainers myself, based on your results there. What are you getting for OAL of cartridge on those 700 grain loadings?

Just something about those 50/90 thumpers, that delivers "authority".

[Lead pot]

As a side note I have to say, why would anyone in their right mind shoot a .50-90? The .45-70 will do everything the .50-90 can do and more with less recoil, less powder, less lead and a plethora of loading data already available

Goose only you can answer that question. :grin:

I shoot the .50 and it is the most accurately shooting rifle I have out of the 6 different caliber Shiloh's I shoot. The .50-2.5 is not for the timid and the reason most cant make this caliber shoot well is the recoil not the caliber. When most start to load for this caliber they start with a light bullet like you did and that is OK if that rifle has the slow twist like the .50-70 carbine had, but with a 1/22 to 1/24 twist the 650 grain plus bullets perform the best.
I load mine with a creedmoor type bullet that is 1.497 long and it weighs 718 to 720 grains depending on how hard the alloy is with 110 grains of 1F of 2F, this rifle seems to shoot with what ever I load it with.
I dont shoot this rifle in the prone position anymore my 71 year old frame just dont seem to like it any more so it's just off the cross sticks in the sitting position anymore.

[mustanggt]

Hey Kurt, couple more weeks for my Big 50 and I'll be posting here too. That roller is purty but that stock looks like it would add to the fiercness of the recoil. I like the history of that particular cartridge of lore. I may just be posting the same about the recoil myself when I can finally take her for a spin. Looks like you got the loading down pretty well. Good luck with your continued sucess.

[Lead pot]

mustanggt.
This is what you can expect from that .50 when you get your load working.
Here is a 200 yd two groups. The left is a 5 shot the right with a sight change is a 7 shot.
The .50-2.5 will shoot if you can roll with the recoil. :shock:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/IMG_1231_r1.jpg

[Don McDowell]

Having had the priviledge of shooting Leadpots big 50 I can say it's not all that bad in the recoil dept and the darn thing sure does shoot once you get used to the torque of the thing.
Between watching Leadpot,Randy Ellingrod and Dakota Dick roll up good scores and finish in the upper end of gong shoots with their big 50's, I gained alot of respect for the cartridge.. Not real wild about having one for myself, but understand full well why the folks that shoot them do so.

[mustanggt]

That's some damn fine accuracy Kurt. Lookin forward to it alot.

[The Goose]

Thank you so much for your reply. I am impressed and inspired.




mustanggt.
This is what you can expect from that .50 when you get your load working.
Here is a 200 yd two groups. The left is a 5 shot the right with a sight change is a 7 shot.
The .50-2.5 will shoot if you can roll with the recoil. :shock:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/IMG_1231_r1.jpg

[golcher]

hi know its sometime sense this post was made ,but anyway those 700gr are they full length 0.512 and how much do you compress load to get 95 gr powder behind such a long bullet that are seated so deep, just had a c.sharp made and i has a 1-24 twist so this load you made here would fit perfect i think ,regards golcher DK.

[Gunlaker]

It won't take much compression at all to get 95gr of powder in the case. I load mine with a 698gr Creedmoor bullet and 95gr of Goex Fg with 0.150" compression.

Chris.

[WARD O]

FYI - the 50-90 of old shot a 473 grain PP bullet over 100 grains of powder. These bullets of and around 650-700 grains are mostly of modern times. This is why the 45's came to outshoot the 50's in the West and became the caliber of choice. It kinda comes dowon to the twist rates.

ward

[The Goose]

I use very little compression for 95 grains. In fact it may not even be necessary, but I do it just to make seating the bullet easy and to minimize any deformation. I have loaded as much as 105 grains with compression, but have found 95 to be the most accurate in my rifles.

[Lead pot]

I haven't shot my .50/2.5 much since they discontinued the goex express powder and I haven't worked up a load with the powder I now use. I used 118 gr of 2f exp powder with over .400" compression and a 1/2" compression with the 1F using the 718 or 720 grain depending on how soft the alloy was. But my ROT is 1/22. Right now my .44-100 has sort of taken it's place but if I was at one of the gong shoots and the winds are up to 20-30 mph it will be the .50 I reach for. I did not run out of windage at the 800 yd Buff at the Q one year with a full factor 30 mph +- wind on my MVA Buff soule sight where the .45-90's and 110's where holding off target to hit iron.

Old Calamity looks like the has bounced around in a buck board all it's life but it will always carry it's used scars. :)

[Hiwall55]

We were shooting my 50-90 Browning sunday. The loads were 95.0 grains Old E with a 610 creedmoor and 110 grains with a 660 paper patch. Accurate made the slick for me and it shoots real well. not shooting paper but a 10 inch plate on a swinger. we had 40 pound on the base and it took about 6 to 7 shots to knock it down. when we reset we repainted the target because it was just grey where the bullets were hitting each time we hit it the plate swung around at least 3 times. what fun a couple rednecks can have

[bigted]

having loaded and shot my 45-120 with a 640 grain hollow base slick and wrapped with onion paper ... I am sure glad I didn't get the 50 x 2.5 I was dealing on at one time. I have nough fun with getting my molars reset with my 120 in a Shiloh Hartford model with a heavy 30 inch barrel. I wait to shoot it last when I take it for an outing as it will take my joy away fast with the HEAVY recoil ... I have been guilty of being too slack with my hold on one of these crazy loads and nearly spilled blood myself ... even on the '74' sharps style.

now if you want a VERY fun rifle and are fond of getting beat up ... I had a Browning 45-70 Hunter model of around 9 pounds that was rechambered to the 120 chamber. this WAS too much fun for this pilgrim. 540 grain boolits with the 125 grains GOEX cartridge was a little over the top and I rebarreled it as fast as I could ... LOL

GOOD LUCK fella's with your boomers/thumpers. my hat is off to ya for sure. :drinks:

[golcher]

THANKS for taking time to answer my question ,that means that there are room enough for 95 gr with a bullet seated about a half inch in the shell + a cardboard , that 700 gr bullet you use is that 0.512 in the shell and then 0.500 up to the ogive ?