Original pp'd boolits, sized to fit what?

[littlejack]

For those of you in the know of bp pp'ing.

I've been think'n on this for a while.
I have been playing around with pp'd boolits in my Uberti Hiwall for a while now. There seems to be a narrow window in which my rifle will perform decently with these boolits. I have not tried a whole lot of different weights and designs, as I have been trying to narrow the weights down, that would be accepted by my rifle and the 1 in 20" twist. I have tried 7 different weights and designs. I have tried up to and including 540 +/- in weight with no success, except for a 425 grain. That 1 in 20 " twist, apparently favors the shorter boolit. Bore diameter is .450, so the cast boolits that fall at .444 seam to patch just right to fit this bore. Seating depth seems to have a definate bearing on the boolits performance also. The more of the boolit in the bore, the better the boolit is lined up and does not get cocked in the bore upon firing.
Now to the question/s.
When the rifle manufacturers were in the processes of barrel making, I have heard/read that the bore and groove dimensions left a lot to be desired.
This was one of the reasons for the beginning of the pp'd boolit. The boolits were patched to be able to fit the different dimensions of the manufacturers rifles of the same cartridge/caliber.
Question:
Were all the boolits patched to the same diameter, ( example: 45-70 patched
to .450) or did the cartridge manufacturers patch the boolits to different diameters to fit different bore dimensions? (example: 45-70 patched to .448, .450 .460).
I rifleman in those days, buying factory ammunition, would have to trial different boolit diameters to find what his particular rifle liked.
I am assuming that the buffalo hunters had their rifles already figured out before they went to the killing fields. Surely they didn't go out cold turkey, with a ream of paper hoping to use the mould that came with the rifle with good success.
Question:
How come we don't see many/any old pp moulds on ebay or where ever for sale if that is what the original pp shooters used? All/most of the moulds are greaser designs.
Enough for now.
Any insight fellas?
Jack

[Don McDowell]

Jack I believe that the Sharps and Remington rounds were patched to bore, and that Winchester made their patched ammunition to the bore diameter stated by Sharps and Remington.
I'm thinking the reason we don't see many of the original patched bullet moulds is that they were mostly obsolete by the 1880's and the end of the Creedmoor era. Altho some hung on into the Schuetzen era by then greasegroove and smokeless had became the major players.

[littlejack]

Thanks Don, for the reply.
That sounds to me like the firearms manufacturers bore and groove dimensions must have been pretty darn close, to be able to shoot the pp'd ammunition supplied in those times.
It would certainly not be feasable to have a selection of patched bullets, different sizes, to match a bunch of different bore dimensions.
Apparently, the machining processes of the times were better than a lot of folks nowadays give them credit for.
Either that or they had a big pile of worthless barrels laying around with oversize bores.
Jack

[Don McDowell]

Ned Roberts in his book the Schuetzen rifle said the reason the sharps and remingtons had trouble shooting grease groove bullets was due to the shallow lands not giving good grip on the bullet.
I think there's a gawdawful lot of fuss and bluster about bullet size and paper size that just doesn't need to be. When you look at the various diameters of slugs and thickness of papers a fella can get by with in a 45 caliber rifle, it gives you pause to stop and think, especially when you get to looking at various recovered bullets.

[littlejack]

That is pretty unique, that a cast lead boolit of the proper size may not shoot accurately, but wrap a missile with paper and everything changes.

[Don McDowell]

Yup and sometimes the very fact that a severely undersized bullet wrapped in some sort of paper will shoot as well or better than carefully fitted and lubed greaser's , just blows your physcy right out the window:brokenima