SAECO #315 maybe...

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Any interest in this tapered beauty? I just KNOW! we can con SciFiJim into honchoing this.

Rich

List:

1. Me, 4-cavity GC, dimensions shown in Swede's last post dated 11-11-11

2.Me, 2-cavity GC, both HP'ed.

[DragoonDrake]

You bet. Interested. Jump Jump Jump. Me me me

[dromia]

I'd be in for this Boolit especially if there was a 0.315" option. :grin:

[excess650]

I have a Saeco #315 DC (175gr)and have seen Ben's groups with his 315 modified to plainbase. It definitely is easy to obtain accuracy with. I've used mine in 30-30 (1894CB), 30-06 (Rem 700 and Husqvarna), 7.5x55 K31 and 7.62x39 (CZ-527). I fully intend to try it in the 308 (Rem 700VS)whenever I get around to loading ammo for it.

I'm not going to commit to this at this time, but may be sorely tempted to buy a 4 cavity, or possibly plainbase and GC versions.

[Wayne S]

EXCESS 650
IF you have any that are not sized or lubed, or the next time you cast some would you send a few samples to NOE so Al can offer up a drawing ??

[DragoonDrake]

Wayne,

I don't think I would want it any heavier. I like the idea of the 175gr TC bullet.

[Ben]

Might be worth you time to look at this if you're interested in the SAECO # 315 :

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/saeco315.pdf

[Doc Highwall]

I have three of the SAECO #315 moulds.

The first one I bought was a two cavity that shot so good that when my Midway birthday discount came, I bought a four cavity from them.

Then when I saw Ben's plain base mould I bought a two cavity off a member here that I converted to plain base.

Not a good hunting bullet because of the exposed grease grooves, but a great target bullet.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

OK, time to spec a couple of configurations.

1. original with a .300" front band and a .312" rear band in front of the GC shank. 175gr +/-

2. original with a .302" front band, and a .314" rear band. Weight?

I would lobby very hard for an RG-4 as standard. You can always use the flat nose pins if you do not want the HP.

This would be very cool as listed.

Let's make it happen. I nominate Doc to send Swede a dozen of each, PB and GC.

Rich

[Wayne S]

I have three of the SAECO #315 moulds.

The first one I bought was a two cavity that shot so good that when my Midway birthday discount came, I bought a four cavity from them.

Then when I saw Ben's plain base mould I bought a two cavity off a member here that I converted to plain base.

Not a good hunting bullet because of the exposed grease grooves, but a great target bullet.
Doc, how does the PB group vs a GC ??
AND I'ld be in for a GB on this also

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I have this affliction from birth, being left handed. It causes me to take off on tangents, instead of just following the herd.

One of those tangents is wanting a single shot rifle, like a CPA Stevens in 30BR Rimmed to run against the Bench Rest bolt rifles. I am thinking with a 1:9" twist barrel this would be one of the better designs to test.

What's that old song from the late sixties; "help a poor man fill a pretty dream..."?


Rich

[Doc Highwall]

Idaho Sharpshooter, I have been shooting the SAECO #315 gas check out of my Remington 40X in 308 Winchester with a 1-12" twist and get great accuracy.

My 100 yard (5) shot record is .305"
300 yard (5) shot record is 1.610" with (4) shots in 1.100"

[smlekid]

if the 2nd option could be made at .316" I'd be very interested in a RG4 after all you can allways size them down! :)

[dromia]

if the 2nd option could be made at .316" I'd be very interested in a RG4 after all you can allways size them down! :)


Concur!

[Wayne S]

1.Lets keep the 315 and the RG-4 GB's seperate they are two totally different designs

Idaho SS, I have a 1-8 twist 300 Whisper barrel for a Contender and not sure if it's the 1-8 twist or a very long throat but so far testing with cast bullets from 170 th 230 gn. has not showed anything under 2.5" at 100 yds. for 10 shot groups, ALWAYS 2 or 3 fliers, maybe if I used bullets from only 1 cavity ??

Doc,
How does the PB group vs the GC ??, I had NOE PB 2 cavitiys on a 311365 5 cavity mold. So far I'm thankfull for gravity, as without it I couldn't even hit the ground with the PB bullets

[RugerFan]

I'm intrigued if its brass.

[no34570]

I might be interested in a .314 or a .316
Would Al do RG moulds for this?

[BCall]

I think the RG4 being referred to here is the NOE RG4 hollow point type mold right? Not the Saeco RG4 (aka the 301).

That being said, I don't believe that Swede intends to do any of the RG type molds in any smaller calibers. He offered them in 2 of the 32 handgun molds, but has declined for the 3118 copy mold. If Swede would decide to offer it in an RG type mold, then I would be in for an RG2.

If someone was referring to the Saeco RG4 aka the 301, then yes, a new thread would be in order.

[Wayne S]

I think the RG4 being referred to here is the NOE RG4 hollow point type mold right? Not the Saeco RG4 (aka the 301).

That being said, I don't believe that Swede intends to do any of the RG type molds in any smaller calibers. He offered them in 2 of the 32 handgun molds, but has declined for the 3118 copy mold. If Swede would decide to offer it in an RG type mold, then I would be in for an RG2.

If someone was referring to the Saeco RG4 aka the 301, then yes, a new thread would be in order.
BCALL,
Yes, I think you are correct, WHAT a few people here are refering to when they say RG4 is the HP system from NOE and NOT the Saeco # 301 AKA RG-4. Wishfull thinking on my part that someone might be interested in the # 301 and getting a GB started on it.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Since I started this thread, I feel that gives me a special insight into the issue. And, my freedom to delineate the parameters. I hope not to sound crabby, but this is my concept. If it is not something you are in agreement with, feel free to start a separate thread.

1. An RG4 is any four cavity mould with Swede's HP package.

2. The SAECO #315 boolet is a tapered 30 caliber design for target work primarily.

I want the taper so that it will fit as many factory throats as possible, especially the rifles I own. I want Swede's RG design because it is impractical, not to say expensive, to HP four cavities of his standard moulds.

I would prefer to let it succeed or fail pretty much as is.

thanks to all who support the design, those who have offered modifications, and those who wish something else. Debate is the lifeblood of design...

regards,

Rich

[bwgdog]

Rich-Would it be possible to post a pic of a RG4 mold. Not familiar with it-I cast some in the 60,s/70,s but just getting back into it and trying to learn! tia Barry

[smlekid]

yes I was refering to a NOE hollowpoint version of the HG 315 in a .316" size

[hicard]

I would be interested in the .300/.312 RG-4 with 2 PB and 2 GC cavities. Your #1 option Idaho Sharpshooter.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Heck, if it would help get the buy rolling I would be good for both. RG4 (Rube Goldberg 4-cavity HP) in .300/.312 and in a .302 to .304/.316.

Rich

BWGDOG,

check the NOE thread. It shows one. They are a two or four cavity with Swede's built-in hollow point pins. Really neat design.

[bwgdog]

Rich-Found the thread-Thank You- Yes I am interested in a RG4 in .300/.312 Barry

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

You guys willing to spring the extra bucks for a SGB (small group buy to the uninitiated)?

Rich

[excess650]

EXCESS 650
IF you have any that are not sized or lubed, or the next time you cast some would you send a few samples to NOE so Al can offer up a drawing ??

I did cast up a batch over the weekend. My mould is late 1990s-2000 vintage. I measured a sample boolit as best as I could with calipers and a mic. My alloy is a "mystery metal" blend of range scrap from indoor ranges, wheel weights, and tin. It seems to be around 12.5bhn when first cast and age hardens. Water dropping causes the hardening to be at or near maximum in about 3 days and then its around 18-22 bhn. Air cooling takes longer to reach maximum hardness and then its closer to 15-16 bhn.

meplat = .175"
truncated cone length = .300"
first parallel secion behind the TC = .303" x .220"
narrow driving bands behind the nose:
.305" x .055"
.3065" x .055"
.308" x .055"
.3095" x .055"
rear band .3115"-.312" x .110"
GC shank .283"-.287" x .080" tapered
total length 1.008"
grooves seem to be .275" diameter and .040" wide

From my measurements you can see the front band on my mould is LARGER than what has been proposed as spec.

Perhaps Ben and Doc can measure their samples and see if and how they correspond with my numbers. (edit: I see that Ben has a photo with measurements, and obviously cut with a different cherry than my mould)

I can and will send samples to Al if someone will forward his address and a note that I can attach referring to this thread. Email it to me as an attachment.

[bwgdog]

Rich-new guy here-can you do a small group buy on the RG4 ? Will they be brass? What is extra cost? tia Barry

[Wayne S]

I can and will send samples to Al if someone will forward his address and a note that I can attach referring to this thread. Email it to me as an attachment.

Wouldn't it easier to just look at any GB thread started by Al, aka SWEDE NELSON,
it lists mold prices AND the address of NOE

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

bwgdog,


Swede (NOE) will do a small group buy. He slots it when we have a minimum of five, and just charges a $10 small run fee. If we hit fifteen orders, then the fee is waived.

I think the mould is too small for an RG4, but we can always ask.

Rich

[Wayne S]

bwgdog,


Swede (NOE) will do a small group buy. He slots it when we have a minimum of five, and just charges a $10 small run fee. If we hit fifteen orders, then the fee is waived.

I think the mould is too small for an RG4, but we can always ask.

Rich
Sharp Shooter, that's $ 10.00 per buyer, correct ?? Now, all that's needed are 5 that want the same size, and out of the same material ???

[bwgdog]

The $10 small run fee foe each mold is fine with me-but would like brass. Would RG4 be seperate GB? Barry

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

We gots good news and we gots bad news.

30 caliber is too small for the RG4. HP pins need to be about a .19" minimum diameter.

Good news, if we have a total of five mould orders, Swede will slot us and give us until about two weeks before slated production day to get more people on board.

The SGB extra $10 is per mould ordered. We might be able to specify brass for the mould blocks, it would just depend on how many cavities.

Rich

[Wayne S]

1 cavity moulds are $68 ea.
2 cavity moulds are $72 ea.
3 cavity moulds are $79 ea.
4 cavity moulds are $85 ea.
5 cavity moulds are $92 ea.

BRASS Mould Prices
(there will need to be 15 orders for brass in order to get this on the production schedule)
Single cavity brass mould $90.00 Ea.
Double cavity brass mould $94.00 Ea.
Four cavity brass mould $111.00 Ea.

The hollow point option for one cavity will be the standard $35.
Blank Hollow point pins will be an extra $1.50 each.

Plus the $ 10.00 "pre "for the SGB, THIS IS THE EASY PART

NOW comes the hard part, find 5 people that want the same size

I want a 300/301 X 311/312 and from pervious posts I'm the only one wanting one this small , So Good luck

[excess650]

Plus the $ 10.00 "pre "for the SGB, THIS IS THE EASY PART

NOW comes the hard part, find 5 people that want the same size

I want a 300/301 X 311/312 and from pervious posts I'm the only one wanting one this small , So Good luck[/QUOTE]

I suspect that you will NOT be the only one wanting a .311-.312". If the other dimensions work I'll probably opt for a 4 cavity just because the NOEs cast soooooo well.

[shawnsmc]

I will sign up for one

[hicard]

Excess650, you are not the only one who wants small. I would take a .300/.311 or .312 also. I have to have a .300 (or smaller) bore riding area or none at all.

[tonyjones]

I'll take a .300"/.311".

Tony

[DragoonDrake]

.300 x .311/.312 is good with me as long as the design is true to the saeco 315. I would prefer aluminum blocks.

[bwgdog]

Same here-in brass.

[RugerFan]

Same here-in brass.

Ditto.

[bullshot]

I would take a .301/.311 four cav aluminum.

[bwgdog]

:-DLooks like 8 folks for .300/.311-good start-ttt

[bwgdog]

Swedejust posted an updated GB schedule on the Active GB thread. ttt

[SwedeNelson]

Send me a sample and we will see
what we can do about a drawing.

NOE Bullet Moulds
1645 W 150 N
Provo, UT 84601

Swede Nelson

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Yesssssssssssss!!!

thanks Swede,

Rich

[matrics631]

When did SAECO start producing molds?

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Santa Anna Engineering COmpany started in the early to mid 1930's.

Rich

[no34570]

Anything heard on this one???

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

we are a few away from being able to schedule the run.

Rich

[bwgdog]

To top for interest

[Wayne S]

Pick ONE material for the mold AND live with it.
There was a GB started and it was offered in both Alum & brass, [it needed 15 per material] It's still waiting for 15 people that will take just one Material [smilie=b:

[bwgdog]

Wayne is there a GB started for the Saeco? Searched and can not find it. Only this one. tia bwgdog

[Wayne S]

Wayne is there a GB started for the Saeco? Searched and can not find it. Only this one. tia bwgdog
bwgdog, NO no GB yet, Al, will need a sample or two to make the Spec. sheet [drawing] and then he will decide what material {mold} to cut the cherry for

[hicard]

Is Miha out of the picture? I sure would like a cramer style if the RG style isn't available.

[bwgdog]

Can someone kindly try to explain to me the difference why a RG can not be made and the Cramer style is possible? I see a lot of pistol bullets in the HP but few rifle available-except single cavity. Is it a tooling issue? tia

[excess650]

I put samples in a Priority Mail box and sent it out this afternoon.



Send me a sample and we will see
what we can do about a drawing.

NOE Bullet Moulds
1645 W 150 N
Provo, UT 84601

Swede Nelson

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

excess650,

For the rest of us, THANK YOU!! for your gracious gesture.

I think this boolet could be great, especially for some of the 308W autoloading rifles out there.

regards,

Rich

Might as well stick me on the list for a .314" 5-cavity GC version.

[SwedeNelson]

Got the samples and working on a drawing.
Will get it posted ASAP.

Swede Nelson

[SwedeNelson]

Something to look at
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/1111-187-311175grFNSAECO315.jpg
We can offer it in .311, .314 and .316
If there is any demand for it.

HP would be with a Lyman type pin
and holder.

Thanks
Swede Nelson

[Wayne S]

Al,
If this one was cut .316 what would be the other band Dia. be ??
TOP = .307
.309
.310
.311
.313
.316
??????????????????

[smlekid]

I'd be in for a .316" hollowpoint

[SwedeNelson]

Wayne S

.316 Diameter
All dimensions would increase .005"
First band .316
Second band .313
third band .311
fourth band .310
fifth band .309
Bore ride band .306
Meplate .177

Swede Nelson

[excess650]

I think there is too little difference in band diameters on Swede's drawing for my liking. From my own boolits, and looking at Ben's dimensions I would be inclined to increase the difference in diameters. .301" and .304" look fine for the front 2 diameters, but would suggest making the remainder .306", .308" and .310" and the rear band would remain .311-.312".

I say this after having shot the Saeco from (2) different 30-06s, (2) K31s, a 30-30 336CB, and a CZ527 in 7.62x39. These all have tapered leades in the factory chambers, and the one K31 has a bit more taper than the other from shooting wear. With my own rifles/ammo/with the #315, the first GG is usually the only one in the neck, and this is for ammo that works through the magazine. By making the bands smaller, the boolit would have to be seated out even further. I DON'T want to buy the next larger (.314") and size them down for my 30cals.

[Wayne S]

I'ld be in for a 5 GC, either like EXCESS spec's out OR a .314.

[SwedeNelson]

Eexcess650

It would be great if i could get
a sample of your bullets too.
Is that possible?

Swede Nelson

[excess650]

Eexcess650

It would be great if i could get
a sample of your bullets too.
Is that possible?

Swede Nelson

Who's samples did you take dimensions from? I mailed a box of 10 samples last week.

[SwedeNelson]

excess650

Dang, I hate when that happens.
This is what I got from your samples.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/1111-187-311175grFNSAECO315fromsamples.jpg
And what I based the first drawing on.


This would be new dimensions based on what every one likes.
I think this is going to be a great bullet and really look forward to running it.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/1111-187-311175grFNSAECO315REV1.jpg

Thanks

Swede Nelson

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Swede Nelson for President!!

This latest iteration is just exactly what the doctor ordered.

I see a 4-cavity GC and a 2-cavity GC with that mould both HP.

thanks,

Rich

[excess650]

Swede,
I'll have to have another visit with my micrometer and more of that same batch of samples. They (all 10) were just pulled from the box, and there was no attempt to segregate cavity for cavity.

I do prefer the second drawing and dimensions and would be in for a 4 cavity GC, and possibly another all plainbase if this comes to fruition.

As much as I like the consistency from my Saecos, the boolits are a bit rough as compared from the gems that drop from aluminum NOEs. Your efforts and patience are much appreciated.

[bwgdog]

Rich-Just reread the thread-question-in post #33 you said no RGHP due to 30 cal being to small-now in post #69 you say 4cav + 2cav both HP- Am confused-Can you explain? Thank You+ hope all have had a Peaceful Veterans Day. Barry

[excess650]

Swede listed the HP as in Lyman type HP pin vs the RG variety. I actually prefer the Lyman type for precision. This boolit design has a smallish .172" meplat, so the HP cavity will be narrow unless the pin plug is made longer (effectively would shorten the boolit) then the HP could be a larger diameter.

[bwgdog]

So the Lyman type HP can be made in 4cav and two cavity-I thought you could only HP one cavity on the Lyman type? Never used a HP mold before,never handled one-so am at a loss at times! Thank You

[SwedeNelson]

We would just HP one cavity with the Lyman type HP.
Like explained above the meplate is to small for a RG type HP.

Swede Nelson

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

no RG4. I will have Swede cut me a 2-cavity mould and add HP pins at extra cost.

Rich

[bwgdog]

Got it-RG=HP all cavities. Lyman=1 cavity only HP. Thank You

[excess650]

HPs can be frustrating. They require more movement and attention to temperature than do non-HP, so will be slower. My only current HP is a 457122 Gould boolit for 45-70. I had a .357 HP but didn't think the extra work was worthwhile.

[excess650]

<bump> C'mon guys. If there is to be a group buy we'll need to show a bit more interest. This is a GREAT boolit design, and I'm game for a 4 cavity to supplement or replace the 2 cavity Saeco that I already have.

[bwgdog]

I am in for one at the size on Swedes print.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

You know I am on the list for this one...

Rich

[rockrat]

I would go for a 5 cav, using the latest drawing( #68)

[hicard]

Getting too fat for my use. I'm only watching at this point.

[bullshot]

I said I would take a .301/.311 4 cav GC. If plain base is available I would take a .301/.311 4 cav plain base also.

[SwedeNelson]

Got a buy going on this one.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=134023

Thanks for your interest.
Swede Nelson