I need a hungry rifle caliber to feed cast too!!! [Archive]

Christorbust

09-18-2011, 10:42 PM

geargnasher

09-18-2011, 10:49 PM

The .30-30 is probably one of the easiest to learn cast boolit calibers on the planet. It works from gallery levels to full-house hunting loads and everything in between. The inherent velocity limitations make it a cast-friendly caliber as well, and I would wager that more North American deer have been put on the table with it than any other.

Gear

quilbilly

09-18-2011, 11:06 PM

Sounds to me like you are describing the 30-30. It is economical to reload, brass is easy to find (just look down on the ground at any shooting pit a month before opening day), and is deadly on deer even at reduced loads of CB 's with mv's around 1600 fps or you can load it hotter if that floats your boat. The rifles are rather economical as well. 18 months ago I bought a new Mossberg 30-30 lever on sale for only $300 for a truck beater rifle and a plinker. It turned out to be a sweet shooter that likes every CB load I have put through it.

btroj

09-18-2011, 11:10 PM

Another 30-30 vote from me. As far as rifle calibers go the 30-30 and 45-70 just scream for a cast bullet. Both would be great on deer, the 30-30 is just more economical on powder and lead.

Ole

09-18-2011, 11:17 PM

.357 Max/.356 Win/.358 Win should fill the bill nicely.

williamwaco

09-18-2011, 11:22 PM

One more vote for the .30-30 - one of the best cast bullet rifle cartridges. If you want a little more power, look at the .35-55.

Either is available in some really fun guns.

JohnH

09-18-2011, 11:23 PM

A 30-30 would be very hard to beat. Surprisingly, there are quite a few variations on the theme out there, one doesn't have to settle for the first or cheapest levergun one can find. The Savage 340/Springfeild 840 bolt action come immediately to mind. Therre is the H&R/NEF Topper based single shot, the TC Contender single shot or TC Encore with a custom barrel. Harder to find but none the less out there is the Remington 788 (discontinued of course)

I have both a Marlin 336 in 30-30 and a Springfeild 840. I have for several years considered a TC barrel for my Contender or Encore but have yet to take the leap. The Marlin actually does everything I'd like from the cartridge. I spend lots of time plinking at a swingning steel on my backyard range using the RCBS 30-150-CM a plain base boolit that was designed for cowboy action. Using 7 grains of Green Dot or 8 grains of Unique this is a fun boolit for off hand playing. I also shoot the Lyman 311008 with good results wiht the same powder charges. The Lyman 311041 is the quintisential 30-30 deer boolit.

geargnasher

09-18-2011, 11:26 PM

.357 Max/.356 Win/.358 Win should fill the bill nicely.

True, except for this part:

"I want one that will be as cheap as possible to reload/cast for. Meaning a common caliber, and maybe even something that is a commonly found military surplus rifle, would be fantastic. I'm starting to get jealous of you 1903 springfield holders..."

I forgot to mention the SMLE .303 British, but they can be a challenge to find a boolit that fits the barrel just right. .30-30 is simpler and many more boolit options.

Gear

rockrat

09-18-2011, 11:31 PM

Don't forget the .308.

Blammer

09-18-2011, 11:45 PM

get a 358 win or a 35 whelen.

use surplus 308 or 30-06 brass.

35 just puts the whammy on deer.

lots of good moulds to choose from too.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/DSCN7523.jpg

res45

09-18-2011, 11:55 PM

Another vote for the 30-30,my Sav. 170 pump gun love everything for low velocity plinker loads to full house hunting loads using the Lee 170 gr. GC RNFP although I just leave the GC off for the plinking loads.

The list of powders that can be used to load cast bullets in the 30-30 is pretty extensive. 1 lb. of Alliant Red Dot using 8.0 grs. allow me to load 875 rds. of 30-30 plinking and small game ammo.

Christorbust

09-19-2011, 12:50 AM

Wow. I am surprised at how many 30-30 responses there were!

Thanks for all the answers, the 45-70 interests me for some reason too, definitely not as economical as a 30-30. Is the 45-70 a bear to shoot? How many approx grains of powder does it use?

At the moment I am definitely leaning heavily towards 30-30, but still allowing my brain to tickle the idea of a 45-70. I have no idea why I like that cartridge, I've never even seen one. Must be the ability to take down an elephant, that ability should never be overlooked.:D

Would a bolt have any favorable advantage over a lever gun, or vice versa?

I would like to avoid single shot, unless there is an incredibly reasonable (read cheap), interchangeable platform.

9.3X62AL

09-19-2011, 01:03 AM

At the ranges that the 30-30 and 45-70 get used at (under 200 yards), the bolt rifle's possible intrinsic accuracy level is superfluous. Leverguns in either caliber will do very well. If the 30-06 or 308 is selected, then a bolt rifle in some limited venues might be a slight advantage.

The 45-70 rifles--casings--powder weights--and bullet weights will cost more money than 30-30 rifles and components. Not so much that it would be a deal-breaker for me, but it does cost a little more per shot to run the caliber.

My view--the 30-30 is without doubt the best all-around cast boolit rifle caliber in existence. The 30-06 is without doubt the best all-around RIFLE caliber in existence. Get both--scope-sight the '06, and iron-sight the 30-30. You'll be set for North American big game. Those are the last two rifle calibers I would get rid of--absolute "must-haves".

turbo1889

09-19-2011, 01:48 AM

Get yourself a good old 8x57 warhorse. A good solid bolt gun preferably non war production, pre or post war with a good clean bore and limited throat erosion. Then get yourself a boolit that is fat enough and fills the throat of the gun. Should suit your needs just fine.

Better yet use a 30-06 chamber reamer and a T-handle driver and make yourself an 8mm-06. Nice big boolit, cheap gun, solid performance, and a lot more range and thump down then a 30-30.

josper

09-19-2011, 03:15 AM

If you injoy shooting a 22.I would stay clear of the 45-70.Full power loads are not all that fun to shoot.I have a marlin 45-70 and love it but I would not recomend it it to you as to what you discribed I dont think you would like it.These other guys that that vote for the 30-30 are giveing sound advice.As for myself I lean more to the 30-06.

303Guy

09-19-2011, 05:41 AM

I've theorized that the 30-30 is the ideal cast boolit cartridge but I keep on reading on how well the 30-06 does with cast. I must say though that the 35 would appeal to me as being a middle of the road all rounder. The 38 -55 makes sense for the same reason but I would personally take a good look at the 375 Winchester. Just seems to encompass the best of both worlds - 30-30 versus 358. Have a look at Hodgdon's site for performance levels and decide for yourself. But for shear commonality the 30-30 is going to be hard to beat. (The 303 Brit wouldn't be a bad choice either - provided you are prepared to do what it takes to make it shoot!)

Bret4207

09-19-2011, 07:05 AM

Based on your desires for cheap ammo I'd consider a 357 lever gun. Another possibility would be a 7.62x39. Both are light for deer, unless you are a hunter rather than a Hail Mary shooter.

Three44s

09-19-2011, 09:16 AM

A lot of folks are using the .35 Whelen and thats a good one.

My favorite (but I don't have a Whelen) is the .338-06 .......... it seems about equally suited for cast and jacketed. The .338 bore has some VERY sleek jacketed slugs to choose and you'd be surprised how flat it will shoot.

You'll have more factory mold choices with the .35 but less jacketed. The .338-06 has fewer molds but more jacketed.

My once fired 06 brass opens up to .338" real easy ............ my guess is that the extra stretch to .35 is something to ponder as to longevity?

For recoil, in cast loads you'll find niether is too bad. Run up J-words and they hurt on both ends!

Three 44s

uscra112

09-19-2011, 09:39 AM

Just because nobody's mentioned it yet - a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington. Better performance on deer than .30-30 because of greater boolit weight and cross section, but it can shoot .357 pistol boolits all day long for plinking and smaller game or varmints. The larger boolit is easier to cast, too.

jlchucker

09-19-2011, 10:14 AM

I've got 4 30-30's, a 35 Remington, and a 45-70, along with a 44 magnum (EMF rifle) and a Rossi 357. There's nothing wrong with any of them for what you want to do, and they can do it just as well as with jacketed ammo. I used to have a 30-06 but gave it to my nephew. Nothing wrong with that one either, except that with a scope it was more weight than I wanted to lug around in the brush. USCRA1112 raises a good point about the 35 Remington. The only drawback with that one is that nobody seems to be leaving any once-fired new brass around at the shooting range any more, and it's getting to be out of stock in the catalogs too often these days.

Sonnypie

09-19-2011, 11:12 AM

What terrain are you going to be hunting in?
My BIL's and nephews live in Oregon and hunt heavier brushy areas, so their choice is the 30-30 for the terrain and distances they hunt.
I on the other hand, hunted in Wyoming. I might be shooting from 50 yards to 500 yards. So my choice was a 30-06.
And my best Deer & Antelope load was a 110 grain bullet pushed at 3000 + FPS. It's performance was beautiful.
Either of those rounds is a great choice. But where you intend to hunt has a lot of bearing on it.
I would not have confidence in a 30-30 beyond 200 yards.
The 30-30 Winchester has a long and nostalgic history and has earned it's respect.
But for me, I want the absolute killing power of a higher power, without the ridiculous overkill of big magnums.
I currently am working up a new pet load using 120 grain cast boolits in my 30-06. So far I am at around the 300 yard steels. And the cast boolits leave a distinctive shiny lead star with each hit.
If I can be consistent at the longest ranges, the shorter ones just come naturally.

My hunting these days consists of scanning the meat section at our local Costco or Walmart. And the game is Chicken or Fish. :confused:

Beagler

09-19-2011, 11:31 AM

I bought a marlin 30-30 a few months ago and love playing with it. Its my truck gun that goes to camp with me now as a Just In Case gun. No scope. I put the XS Sight System Peep Sights on it. Pop cans don't stand a chance with those sights even a ways off. Shooting the 165 Grain Ranch Dogs. Its a good all around CRITTER GETTER!

onondaga

09-19-2011, 01:18 PM

GREENCOUNTYPETE

09-19-2011, 01:40 PM

+1 for 30-30

it was my first rifle to cast for

Sonnypie

09-19-2011, 01:53 PM

"The heavy flat nose 30 caliber gas checked boolits are superior on game to any jacketed bullet in 30 cal."

Sorry Gary, with all due respect, I must call B.S. on that statement.
I know for certainty what 3 different 110 grain bullet configurations driven with the exact same powder, charge weights, and primers can deliver in Deer and Antelope.
There is absolutely no way a cast boolit can match the explosive power those bullets exhibited in the vitals of those animals, with a 30 caliber entrance and a 50+ caliber exit.
The wound channel was a pare shaped area of destruction 6-7" in largest diameter directly within the vitals of the chest cavity.
On one Antelope at 200 yards, a head-on neck shot (front to back) removed two neck vertebra out the back of the neck.

To begin with, please show me where a cast boolit is driven at or above 3000 FPS. I have shot literally thousands of jacketed rounds at those speeds.
And taken many, many animals with those loads. Both for my table, and for friends who hunted with me.

And what I have witnessed was the ruin too large a firearm can do as well. As a hunter, my main goal was to achieve as instant a death as possible (Merciful). And that produced the cleanest meat (No adrenalin).

So despite what you might have read somewhere, a cast boolit can not compare in the real world to a hyper velocity jacketed bullet, based on real world experience.

Other than your statement above, I do enjoy and respect your inputs. ;-)

ilcop22

09-19-2011, 02:02 PM

+1 on the .357 mag lever gun or .30-'06. For deer, I'd go with the .30-'06. 1903s (including a1-a4) love cast. My 1903a3 is bullseye accurate with full power and reduced power loads. It being my favorite cartridge, though, I'm a bit biased. ;)

geargnasher

09-19-2011, 02:13 PM

Brass availability inexpensively would point you to .308 and the .308 loves cast boolits too. The extra case volume of the .308 over the 30-30 will get you farther/faster with heavy boolits in the .308 for better kill power.

The heavy flat nose 30 caliber gas checked boolits are superior on game to any jacketed bullet in 30 cal.

Gary

My only issue with the .308 Win. is the short neck, and the short throats many factory rifles have. This means it's hard to get heavy boolits to chamber without seating them way down in the case, and I've had mixed results doing that. It IS a great caliber, though, and can do amazing things with the right boolit.

I totally agree with your statement about the killing power of a good, FNGC lead boolit, though. Nothing I know of will transfer more of it's energy to the target than a properly alloyed cast boolit. Other game bullets need outrageous velocity to get the same expansion and make the same quick kill, and much of their energy is expended in whatever the boolit hits long after going clear through the intended target.

Gear

Nobade

09-19-2011, 02:53 PM

All this is very entertaining, but what I want to know is what part of VA is better than Lynchburg? Sure the city sucks, but you've got the mountains there, man!

I am only a little bit biased, having grown up in Bedford.

As for the gun stuff, I vote for the 30-30 too for all the above mentioned reasons. Anything from 115gr. driven by 5 gr. Clays up to 200gr. driven by as much 3031 as you can stuff in the case, it'll do it all. Shoots good with buckshot too for killing mice.

And jacketed being better at killing than cast? You've obviously never paper patched cast bullets. A 8-9 BHN flatnose 150gr. bullet at full 30-06 velocity will do some spectacular damage to game. Hollowpoint that same bullet and it'll pop an antelope like a prairie dog hit by a 22-250.

shdwlkr

09-19-2011, 03:07 PM

I am going with the 30-30 crowd. Don't believe all that is written about this caliber by the new gun guys. Go back and read when it first came out and with 160-165 grain lead bullets it stopped Grizzlies not what I call a wimp round.
If you want to go bigger look at the 375 winchester and 300 grain bullets maybe even 350 grain they are not fast but carry a lot of energy. Look at the 250 and 268 grains if you need more speed.
Last look at the 45-70 and again with all of these don't believe they are 200 yard and less calibers read about what the old timers did with them and they didn't have our new powders, primers, cases or rifle steel.
No bullet is any good if it doesn't hit the right spot and do some real damage. Another thing is a very large hole and a whole lot a splattered metal or lead is a lot of wasted meat. I hunt when I can for meat not horns, not a trophy to hang on the wall but meat to put in the freezer.
If you want to hunt from mountain to mountain then get a barrrett 50 caliber and you have a limited range of what is it now 1.5 miles the best one of current snipers has done.
Me I am more interested in respecting the animal I hunt, limiting its suffering and harvesting some good eating meat.
But what do I know I am not a gun writer, don't trophy hunt, don't think a 600 yard shot is fair to my game being hunted, heck 300 yards is pushing it for me just because I respect what I hunt and was raised to respect what I hunt and to ensure the animal doesn't suffer because of stupid human trying to do something he can't do.

Ben

09-19-2011, 03:07 PM

Christorbust

Considering your criteria of " cheap to shoot", the 357 Mag. in a rifle ( Maybe a Handi-Rifle ) would get you a lot of shooting from 1 lb. of powder and 10 lbs of alloy.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=sb1-s35

SharpsShooter

09-19-2011, 03:09 PM

I'd go with the 06. Brass is common and there are a bazzilion different moulds in 30 caliber to suit most any taste or budget. More importantly though, I can download the 06 to 30-30 levels but cannot safely approach 06 levels with the 30-30. That makes the 06 more versatile and sensible simply due to the broad spectrum of uses.

SS

SS

8mm

09-19-2011, 03:25 PM

There are many fine popular calibers that are suitable for cast bullets. Personal favorites are: 30-30, .35 Remington, 30-06, and 45-70.

If I had to choose just one, it would be the 30-30. It is a pleasure to shoot, can be loaded to factory velocities, and is not difficult to develop extremely accurate loads. Best of all to "cheapskates" like myself, there is always a bountiful supply of range brass laying on the ground during the "sighting in season" that just precedes hunting season.

Fortunately I don't have to choose just one. So feeding all the others is just part of my addiction. Welcome to the club but consider yourself forewarned.

mpmarty

09-19-2011, 03:26 PM

I disagree with the high velocity lightweight bullet theory put forth here. That is a recipe for disaster as in tracking wounded game due to lack of penetration. I like 308 with at least a 170gr boolit at around 1800fps. It penetrates, mushrooms and kills quite well on deer. That said I don't find my 45/70 expensive to shoot at all. I use a 350 gr Ranch dog boolit over 15 gr of Unique with a large pistol primer in my 1895 and it is quite accurate and the recoil is negligible. I have brass that has been reloaded more than twenty times and seems to last for ever.

Lizard333

09-19-2011, 04:07 PM

I have 6 pre-64 Winchester 94's. All are in 30-30. I love this rifle. My favorite mold is a 311041. I size it to 309 with GC and load 29 gns of 335. This load is a tack driver with my rifles. They have taken down deer since I was only 12. Perfect for you application.

JRR

09-19-2011, 04:19 PM

I'm with turbo on this one. You can get a beautiful 24/47 mauser for approx. $200 plus shipping and FFL fees. Pick up and take home for $300 or under. Fatter and heavier projectiles than the 30/30 with about the same velocity in cast. Excellent cast accuracy. Brass is more expensive than 30/30 but can easily be made from surplus 30/06 for very little. A scout scope setup is easy with several adapters that replace the ladder sight. 1800-1900 fps with a 200 gr. projectile is effective on game out to at least 150 yards, plus you can shoot it all day without a bruised shoulder.

Jeff

wills

09-19-2011, 04:44 PM

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&biw=1024&bih=571&q=mosin+nagant+for+sale&gs_upl=1657l3360l0l6485l6l6l0l0l0l0l282l1312l0.3.3 l6l0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=11546298458832761344&sa=X&ei=Yal3TqrtOuSDsgKEnPiLBQ&ved=0CHAQ8wIwAA#

Sonnypie

09-19-2011, 04:53 PM

You fellers are absolutely right!
That's why the Military's and Police of the World INSIST on cast bullets only for their work.
;-)

waksupi

09-19-2011, 07:29 PM

You fellers are absolutely right!
That's why the Military's and Police of the World INSIST on cast bullets only for their work.
;-)

Actually the jacketed bullets were required once the cast bullets in common use were outlawed, as they caused more serious wounds.

I must say, a lot of your misinformation and misunderstanding is a hoot to many of us!

onondaga

09-19-2011, 07:36 PM

I can't figure why you use cast boolits at all. Your references to high velocity jacketed meat vaporizers suggest you are a partially backslidden or lukewarm jacketed bullet fan and not a dedicated cast boolit fan.

The frontal shot mess you tell of is a primary reason I don't use high velocity jacketed bullets.

The police have different considerations than bang-flop killing. The big meplat gas checked soft lead boolits for handguns would likely be the first choice of officers if they could make their own choice and provide their own ammo.

Gary

geargnasher

09-19-2011, 07:38 PM

You fellers are absolutely right!
That's why the Military's and Police of the World INSIST on cast bullets only for their work.
;-)

Does the Geneva Convention or Hague Accords ring a bell?

Gear

Mark Daiute

09-19-2011, 07:52 PM

I'm gonna mention this one and then all the other guys are gonna smack there heads a go: "oh yeah, he's right!"

Get yourself a bubba'd Krag with a good bore. Cheap and effective.

My .02.

Castlead

09-19-2011, 09:29 PM

Can't go wrong with the 30-30. Or if you step up a notch the 45-70. Cast reloads are cheap in any cartridge, so cost should not be an issue unless your really in a bind.

geargnasher

09-19-2011, 10:08 PM

I'm gonna mention this one and then all the other guys are gonna smack there heads a go: "oh yeah, he's right!"

Get yourself a bubba'd Krag with a good bore. Cheap and effective.

My .02.

Brass not as cheap or commonly found lying around on the ground, but a good cast cartridge indeed.

Gear

94Doug

09-19-2011, 10:18 PM

I'm gonna say 35 Whelen, 30-30 in a close second.

Doug

DLCTEX

09-19-2011, 10:48 PM

+1 for the 30-30.

Idaho Sharpshooter

09-19-2011, 10:58 PM

I have to vote for the 308 case. As is, or necked up to make the really neat 358 Win.

Just see yourself woodswalking with a trim little carbine in either caliber. Do the 308, get a 1:8" twist, and shoot those sleek cruise missile 311247's at about 2200fps.

Rich

EDK

09-19-2011, 11:21 PM

Let's consider a 100 yard maximum shot and go for a 357 or 44 magnum MARLIN lever gun. Cheap brass, cheap cast bullets; commercial ammo ain't that bad either!

More range...30/30 MARLIN lever gun...most of the above applies. 45/70 ONLY if you load your own.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

Christorbust

09-20-2011, 12:51 AM

All this is very entertaining, but what I want to know is what part of VA is better than Lynchburg? Sure the city sucks, but you've got the mountains there, man!

Well what part of Virginia is better than Lynchburg, West Virginia!

That's what I meant by "I'm from the better VA." Morgantown to be exact, (WARNING: shameless plug to follow) go Mountaineers!!!

I agree with you nobade that the city of Lynchburg does lack in some areas, mostly traffic intelligence... but the mountains sure are purty.

I will be hunting mostly in mountains, occasionally a powerline shot could get to be 200+ yards, but I'd consider that rare.

After taking 303guy's advice and look up various velocities of these calibers with diff powders and bullet weights. It seems that the 30-30 is not as far below the 30.06 or 308 in cast. They all seem to hit 2000fps+ (3-400+ for the .06) with the ought six able to push a 40gr heavier bullet, and the 308 30gr heavier than 30-30

Well roughly approximated that's

303 brit:1
30-30:16
30.06: 4
308: 4
35 Rem: 1
35 Whel: 2
35-55: 1
357: 4
358 Win:2
45/70: 2
8x57: 2

I may have missed one or two of the single vote oddities....(such as the .22 from hell[smilie=l:)

I really am looking for something that will shine in :cbpour:, I would almost like to eliminate any variable for jacketed performance... unless with a j-word it could gut, skin, and hang a deer in the nearest tree while not damaging a lot of meat, that would be a hard feature to pass up. :bigsmyl2:

It seems that the 30-30, 30.06 are running similar prices (guns), 45/70 are running same for marlin lever, and 35 rem, whel, 55, and 358 win are a little more (very generic statement after brief research). The 8x57's obviously are a lot cheaper. Being that I own a CZ75 and love it, the vz24 mauser 8x57 rifle by pre cz interests me a little as well.

What is a "bubba'd krag?

geargnasher

09-20-2011, 01:12 AM

Don't assume that, just because a .30-'06 is capable of shooting cast in excess of 2200 fps that you will be able to make it shoot with any kind of decent accuracy much beyond mid-to-high-end .30-30 velocities, especially with factory rifles. There are a lot of factors in our recommendations of which you might not be aware. No sense in getting an '06 bolt gun and never shoot it above 2K fps if you can have a .30-30 Marlin that weighs less, handles better in the field, and generally makes 100-yard hunting easier than the bolt gun (just my opinion on that part). You should have no problems getting to 2100 fps with a .30-30 using conventional loading techniques. Getting over 2400 fps with anything that resembles accuracy with hunting-grade boolit alloy in a ten-twist .30-.06 or .308 is a challenge that relatively few have surmounted.

The .35 Whelen would probably be my second choice, that or the .35 Remington in a levergun. I've never owned, loaded for, or shot a .35 Remington, so I'm only passing this on based upon reading what Glen Fryxell and others have said about them.

45/70 is really tough to beat also, but most of the guns chambered for it are single-shot, long-barreled, heavy affairs that don't tote well in the field unless you get the Marlin Guide gun or a Winchester levergun.

As for the revolver-cartridge carbines, they're great fun, but not the easiest to get to shoot confidence-building groups due to twist rate and chamber slop issues common to them.

Hopefully you'll have opportunity to explore some or all of these calibers eventually, but for a first try, I still think you'll get the most positive results the easiest with a good .30-30, but unless you're buying new, don't be afraid to pick up one of the others mentioned if you get a good deal on it, they'll all work and we can give you tips on what we figured out worked best for us with each one.

Gear

Clinebo

09-20-2011, 02:56 AM

If you're only busting deer a .22 Hornet will get the job done.

Christorbust

09-20-2011, 03:04 AM

Don't assume that, just because a .30-'06 is capable of shooting cast in excess of 2200 fps that you will be able to make it shoot with any kind of decent accuracy much beyond mid-to-high-end .30-30 velocities, especially with factory rifles. There are a lot of factors in our recommendations of which you might not be aware. No sense in getting an '06 bolt gun and never shoot it above 2K fps if you can have a .30-30 Marlin that weighs less, handles better in the field, and generally makes 100-yard hunting easier than the bolt gun (just my opinion on that part).

Gear that makes a lot of sense, there were factors I was unaware of. I appreciate the advise. This is why I'm asking you guys! :mrgreen:

At this point then I will be heavily leaning on the 30-30, or 45/70 if it presents itself just right. They're seems to be much more info on them, commonality, than the 35 whel... although I'll give it another cursory glance. I like the look of the marlin levers at the moment, and have for a little while, unless information presents itself otherwise.

Is there a specific twist rate I should be looking towards for cast? This is something that is a beyond my knowledge at the moment. I am kind of assuming that since those two calibers are normally shoot factory at cast FPS levels that their twists should be fitting.

"Hopefully you'll have opportunity to explore some or all of these calibers eventually"

Hopefully indeed!!!:guntootsmiley:

JIMinPHX

09-20-2011, 03:06 AM

.30-30 is a classic & always a good choice for cast. The 7.62 x 39 will do almost anything that the .30-30 will do & usually use up a little less powder in the process. Also, guns like the SKS are pretty reasonably priced, even in today's world. I don't know if a semi-auto is legal on deer where you live, but if you want a hungry rifle, that you can shoot the living daylights out of, then that one should certainly fit the bill.

If you want to go cheaper than that on the ammo end of things, then you might want to step down to something like a .22 hornet. They can be a bit fussy to get good results from, but they are about the best value for dollar in reloaded centerfire ammo. They are not legal on deer in many places though. A .223 might be easier to find brass for, but it will chew up a little more powder than the Hornet in order to get the same speed. Either way, .22 cal cast boolits don't use up much lead. A pound goes a long way with them.

Pretty much any .30-30 out there should have a twist rate that is good for most cast boolits of average weights. If you get into the modern military stuff, like the .223's, you will probably want to avoid the really fast twists that were designed for late ignition tracer ammo. Something like a 1:7 is probably not going to be very cast friendly. 1:10 would be my choice in that caliber, although other people would probably argue in favor of 1:12 or even 1:14 for cast use.

JIMinPHX

09-20-2011, 03:27 AM

"The heavy flat nose 30 caliber gas checked boolits are superior on game to any jacketed bullet in 30 cal."

Sorry Gary, with all due respect, I must call B.S. on that statement.
I know for certainty what 3 different 110 grain bullet configurations driven with the exact same powder, charge weights, and primers can deliver in Deer and Antelope.
There is absolutely no way a cast boolit can match the explosive power those bullets exhibited in the vitals of those animals, with a 30 caliber entrance and a 50+ caliber exit....

To begin with, please show me where a cast boolit is driven at or above 3000 FPS.

Howdy Sonny,
I think that either your statement or Gary's could be correct. It just depends on the particular circumstances in which the round is used. In some applications, the small, fast movers deliver more slap down authority. In other situations, the big heavy boolits, that hang together, get the job done better. The variety of game that you are hunting is just one of the key factors that needs to be considered before you can choose which is better. I wouldn't want to hunt thick skinned dangerous game with the hyper lites. They can be spectacular on some of the thin skinned species though.

As for cast at over 3,000fps, I've done it before. I haven't managed to get good accuracy at those speeds yet, but I'm not convinced that it can't be done.

dverna

09-20-2011, 10:43 AM

If you will be limited to one rifle, get the .308

It will shoot cast bullets well and, if you decide that for the few head of game you may take, a jacketed bullet makes more sense you can take larger game than deer. It is a great deer caliber with cast (say 200 yards?) and at longer range with a good J bullet.

If you want low priced cast "plinking" it will do that too - and at about the same cost as the 30/30. The difference in powder cost is so minimal that it makes no sense to limit your flexibility.

The .308 can do whatever the 30/30 can do - but the converse it not true.

You can also get Mil-surp ammo if that turns your crank.

Cases are easy to get too. i get them free from guys shooting Mil-surp who do not reload.

Don

hicard

09-20-2011, 11:25 AM

I would agree with the 30-30 crowd but can't believe there aren't more votes for the 35 Remington which is my favorite.

Sonnypie

09-20-2011, 01:37 PM

Howdy Sonny,
I think that either your statement or Gary's could be correct. It just depends on the particular circumstances in which the round is used. In some applications, the small, fast movers deliver more slap down authority. In other situations, the big heavy boolits, that hang together, get the job done better. The variety of game that you are hunting is just one of the key factors that needs to be considered before you can choose which is better. I wouldn't want to hunt thick skinned dangerous game with the hyper lites. They can be spectacular on some of the thin skinned species though.

As for cast at over 3,000fps, I've done it before. I haven't managed to get good accuracy at those speeds yet, but I'm not convinced that it can't be done.

Hi Jim,
Actually, I have taken both Deer and Antelope with a mere 22 LR. It's all in accuracy and placement.
My entire goal with casting is to work on reduced loads to introduce my 10 Y/O Grandson to high power shooting.
And the fun of casting and reloading the ammunition.
I think that beats the poop out of playing video games.

"The heavy flat nose 30 caliber gas checked boolits are superior on game to any jacketed bullet in 30 cal."

That right there is a BS statement.

Enough said. :drinks:

onondaga

09-20-2011, 03:04 PM

I agree with Waksupi:

"Actually the jacketed bullets were required once the cast bullets in common use were outlawed, as they caused more serious wounds.

I must say, a lot of your misinformation and misunderstanding is a hoot to many of us!
__________________
The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

Taking deer with a 22lr is illegal in my state of NY and I agree that is inhumane and a BS practice usually committed by poachers and people that make their own rules instead of obeying the law. I can't imagine California allows what you have admitted to doing in using a 22lr to take deer and antelope. If California does allow that it is very misguided in yet another area of legislation regarding firearms and hunting. Deer with a 22lr is plain inhumane BS shot placement or not.

Gary

JIMinPHX

09-20-2011, 03:06 PM

Hi Jim,
Actually, I have taken both Deer and Antelope with a mere 22 LR.

So then, you advocate poaching &/or the taking of game with poorly matched calibers? :confused:

I don't think that I'll comment further on this topic.:neutral:

Freightman

09-20-2011, 03:40 PM

Knew a man now gone who used only .22 but he was a poacher period not a hunter.

Blammer

09-20-2011, 04:54 PM

any chance you guys could stay on topic and not ruin this guy's thread?

geargnasher

09-20-2011, 09:17 PM

I would agree with the 30-30 crowd but can't believe there aren't more votes for the 35 Remington which is my favorite.

Only because he wanted something cheap, widely available, and pretty standard. I don't see too many rifles out there chambered in that caliber, which is a real shame. Marlin would be about it, and brass would have to be purchased new, most people I know that shoot that caliber are religious reloaders and I would imagine it's almost non-existent on the ground.

Gear

Mark Daiute

09-20-2011, 09:24 PM

geargnasher

09-20-2011, 09:28 PM

Bubba'd Krag is a nice old US Caliber 30 Magazine rifle in 30/40 Krag that bubba got a hold of and sporterized by hacking of the forestock and maybe even shortening the barrel.

They make a great deer rifle!

Don't forget that Bubba also turned the bolt with a torch and a set of ratty Vise Grip pliers, and relieved the stock for it with a pocket knife. And watch out for his DIY "trigger job".

Gear

JIMinPHX

09-20-2011, 10:43 PM

he wanted something cheap, widely available, and pretty standard.

Cheap guns = surpluss - SKS, Mauser, Moisin Nagant - $100-$300
Cheap brass = surpluss & police calibers - .38spl, .308, .30-06, 9mm, .40, .223 - Free if you know where to look, Often less than $0.10 per piece if you buy spent cases.
Cheap molds = Lee - just about any caliber you might need - $20 per mold for most 2-cavity types with handles, new

Artful

09-21-2011, 02:36 AM

My first instinct is he has 35 cal molds so go with 35 cal gun - my next instinct is check what's cheap down at the local firearms emporium - you can buy a mold for inexpensive one time purchase - most calibers can be made to shoot cast without issue (I would recommend 30 and above). Check prices on most cartridges and it's not too expensive to buy reloadable once fired cases on the WWW.

If you go down and find a bubba'd SMLE or Krag or whatever it's still a reasonable choice - after you have your first 100 cases it isn't that bad to feed 'em. As far as down loading look into buying some trailboss powder - you can make up some creampuff loads no problem - smaller cases are more efficent but for deer hunting I would look at 30-30 or 7.62x39 as minimum performance level. And yes a 22LR will kill large animals but it's not ethical to do so.

SKS if a good one is found cheap would be excellent boolit hose - or 38 spl/357 mag would be good - but marginal on large game so you would have to check you game reg's. But honestly any inexpensive used cannon with good bore that strikes your fancy and fits your wallet can be made an inexpensive shooter with soft recoil. So first scout the shops and gun shows and then pick up the brass, boolit mold and dies.

Lloyd Smale

09-21-2011, 07:06 AM

my vote would be for a little lever gun in 44 mag. It will take care of deer to a 100 yards even with midrange loads and bigger animals at that range with heavy bullet cast loads and will make a good plinker with light loads giving about no recoil.

Artful

09-21-2011, 12:35 PM

Biggest problem with 44 or 45 cal is watching the lead pot go down for each 45 slug you can get two 30 or 35 cal slugs. And my 44 isn't a creampuff to shoot. The bigger the slug the more the recoil. My 357 lever with 38's feels like an overgrown 22, even with 7 grains of unique and 200 grain slug my 44 doesn't feel like that.

GREENCOUNTYPETE

09-21-2011, 12:55 PM

i said 30-30 , you can get enough powder in it to make 2000fps but don't need to burn more powder to get the same speed brass is reasonably easy to get , longer neck than 308 so you can use a longer boolet if your gun can feed them my 336 won''t feed any thing any much longer than a c.o.l of 2.555 reliably there are times i think it would be nice to go longer
a bolt would let you do that

for a decent price you can get a savage 340 30-30 bolt used handy little gun , kind of a shame savage doesn't make a 30-30 bolt gun any more could be a good youth gun idea

303Guy

09-21-2011, 05:11 PM

What about a 30-30 Handi Rifle?

geargnasher

09-21-2011, 06:46 PM

Or ANY Handi Rifle, for that matter! Just about any centerfire caliber they offer will work with cast boolits. Rifle, Lee dies, Lee mould, NOE lead thermometer, saucepan, Lyman Rowel ladle, Lee push-through sizer, Felix lube ingredients from Randyrat, and a silicone pan for lubing would come in under $400, I cna't think of many cheaper ways to get into casting unless you got really good deal on an 8mm Mauser or similar military rifle.

Gear

superior

09-21-2011, 07:07 PM

45-70 hands down. From roundballs to 540 grainers, from mice to moose. Light powder loads with roundballs to save on lead and powder. Full house slow burning powder heavy loads if you should get the urge. Oh ..did I mention that it's the most fun I've ever had shooting?
My second choice is the 35 whelen. The Whelen is arguably the most versatile caliber available, with more mold choices than you can shake a stick at. From light loaded 38 special boolits to long range "Big critter gitters". It affords the flexibility that few others ( if any) can match.
Most fun for the buck? 45-70. To me, it's the coolest caliber, steeped in tradition, and available in some really awesome guns.

Harter66

09-21-2011, 08:08 PM

For ease of getting it right and maybe finding an inexpensive gun don't rule out a 32 Special. 30-30 case and all the 8mm moulds . Qualifier here mine is actually 32 Rem,but I had no trouble getting to 1900fps w/a plain based 175 gr boolit.

JIMinPHX

09-21-2011, 11:42 PM

There is an absolute boat load of bolt action Mosin Nagant bolt action rifles floating around for about $100 each. Reloadable brass in that caliber doesn't exactly litter the earth, but you can buy loaded ammo in reloadable cases for less than $20/box.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=773893
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/ammo-for-rifles/7-62x54r/p/7-62x54r-wolf-gold%2C-150gr-fmj-20-round-box/cPath/12_42/products_id/3435

If you only need a few boxes of brass, then you could conceivably get set up with everything that you need to start loading it for a few hundred bucks, including the rifle.

If you do get one of those, inspect the bore carefully. They vary from awfully nice to dreadful. The prices don't seem to vary as much as the bore quality does.

Those rifles are a bit heavy, but they tend to be pretty good shooters. They are built battle tough & will last longer than most people I know.

JIMinPHX

09-21-2011, 11:54 PM

I would like to avoid single shot, unless there is an incredibly reasonable (read cheap), interchangeable platform.

That sounds like the Handi-rifle that several people have already spoken of. In round numbers, figure around $200ish for the rifle (including first barrel), then around $100ish for each barrel that you add to it later. The down side to this gun comparred to the much more expensive Contender is that you need to send the gun back to the factory each time you want to get a new barrel for it. Rossi also makes a gun of similar design that is slightly cheaper, but I've had bad experiences with Rossi in the past, so I stay away from them. The Handi-rifle is still made in the USA, although it is no longer made in it's traditional home town of Gardner MA.

geargnasher

09-21-2011, 11:58 PM

My best friend in high school had a Mosin Nagant, and we did our absolute best to wear it out. I think we would have, too, except we shot nothing but cast boolits through its rotten bore and kept it clean and oiled. He still has it and shoots it occasionally, with cast boolits of course. I could do without the steel buttplate nowdays, though. I'd get a slip-on recoil pad or just saw off the back of stock clean and straight and put a good Pachmayer on it. Two boxes of quality brass loaded with ten grains of Unique under any boolit will last many, many reloadings.

Gear

turbo1889

09-22-2011, 04:07 AM

Most Mosin-Nagants have already outlived their original owners. Some of them have literally outlived hundreds of owners (Siege of Stalingrad anyone?). Treated right (and even if not treated right) they will probably outlive you as well. Plus they are great for shocking the snot out of other people you meet out in the woods for example I once ran into a couple of guys in a canoe headed upstream (slow current) while I was going downstream. I was using one of my more beat up Mosin-Nagants I use as a back packing rifle that doubles as a walking stick as a boat oar. You should have seen the look on their faces when they got close enough to realize I was paddling using the rifle as an oar butt end in the water. Had a few stares when using it as a walking stick (butt end down) as well.

It is true about the brass but with as many of them as are out there I don't think it will be long before new brass becomes fairly readily available just like you can buy bags of new 8x57 brass fairly easily right now since the Mauser had about a forty plus year head start on the Mosin-Nagant for the U.S. consumer market.

As to the 32-Win. Special idea that is a great cartridge but I don't know where the heck you are going to find one for cheap. Almost everyone I have ever seen in half way decent condition has been priced at more then the same gun in the same condition in 30-30 would bring since it is somewhat of a rarity and collectors item for the guys who are into Winchester lever rifles.

garym1a2

09-22-2011, 11:22 AM

Given you already have a 9mm and cast for it. The 9mm you drop may fit a 357 mag case unsized. My lee 9mm, TC120 drops large enough to use in the 1892 Rossi unsized. Makes a good plinker round. Cast 158 with gas checks and a good dose of 2400 and you have a dear round.

daschnoz

09-22-2011, 12:30 PM

My vote is for something in the 30 caliber family that can be down-loaded to 30-30 levels. 30-06, 308, are both good candidates.

1. There are so many bullet and boolit options in 30 caliber - if you can't find a suitable projectile for your intended target, you should not be using a 30 caliber rifle. Everything from 100gr through 250gr, in any shape you can imagine.

2. If you go 30-30, your top end performance is limited to about the starting loads for 30-06 and 308. There is plenty of data for down-loading 30-06 and 308 available. Hodgdon has a PDF of "Youth Loads" for various calibers. IIRC, they all use H4895.

303Guy

09-22-2011, 09:26 PM

Of course the 303 Brit would not be the worst choice. Maybe a little more difficult to get to shoot cast but in some ways it can be a very good choice if the ideal specimen can be had but then there is the problem of getting the correct mold to suite it. Not insurmountable though.

Christorbust

09-23-2011, 12:24 AM

Christorbust

09-23-2011, 12:38 AM

45-70 hands down. From roundballs to 540 grainers, from mice to moose.

Superior, if you've got a video mouse hunting with your 45-70, we'd sure like to see it :D

I'm definitely being tempted by the caliber still, if an old bolt action turned that way was worth its salt...

Jim I looked at the handi's... they are an option too. I'd just have the trouble of deciding between 30-30, 30-06, 308, 45-70 (if they offer those). I could probably get two barrels in short time if they run as cheap as you say... and I play nice with the misses[smilie=l:

Artful

09-23-2011, 01:01 AM

In single shot break open's the rimmed cases are a better choice in my experience.

Artful

09-23-2011, 01:12 AM

Anyone hear of a 45-70 being done on a mosin platform, I've heard limited things... plus I haven't been able to find my canoe paddle as of late.

Here is one done on an Enfield... thoughts?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=251852250

There is a thread about conversion of Mosin to 45-70 and 444 marlin (better choice on the platform) but your talking about buying a new barrel and having gunsmith working on it - not a cheap choice - you can have a SMLE changed in caliber - I have one set up in 45 ACP using 1911 mag's but it's the cost of the SMLE then several hundred more for the conversion parts and if you can't DIY again you have to spend more money on a gunsmith.

303 enfield or a Mosin Nagant are good choices in native caliber if you make sure they have a good bore.
If you want a 45-70 bolt action a company called GIBBS made some on SMLE's
http://www.gibbsrifle.com/sport_speciality.html
http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/GIBBS/GIBBS%20SUMMIT.htm
and Navy Arms made some on Siamese Mausers -
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-34025.html
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?29554-45-70-Siamese-Mauser

:bigsmyl2:

Christorbust

09-23-2011, 01:28 AM

Artful, thanks for the tips.

As for the links, I had them open in another tab already!

I'll try to keep my mind reading to a minimum from now on.

Lonegun1894

09-23-2011, 01:44 PM

I will throw in another vote for the .357 Magnum, or the .30-30. Inside of 125 yards, both work just as well as anything else around here, but the .30-30 has the advantage if you shoot farther than that on out to slightly past 200. I have other calibers, to include .308, .30-06, .45-70, .303 Brit, .45 Colt, and any one of them would serve your purposes well, but the .357 and .30-30 get the most use for hunting. I also know there have been comments saying that cast has limited performance compared to jacketed--I call BS. If you want very high velocities, and want to do it easily, jacketed is easier if you just want to shoot and aren't willing to experiment and see what you and your gun can do. If however you are actually a hunter, and not just a shooter, and are willing to put a little work into your gun and ammunition combination, then cast will outperform jacketed every time. Jacketed works, but cast works much better and is much more versatile. I still use jacketed for a few limited/specialized applications, but have been using almost all cast for quite some time now, and am not looking to go back.

lonnydk

09-24-2011, 02:48 AM

First let me say, I am a traditional archery guy due to health reasons converted to pistol and rifle with lead boolits only. As a result ALL of my hunting shots are less than 100 yards and 90% are less than 50. All of my reloads are light to medium velocity and using Unique for all.

I use a lot of calibers and the most used are my marlin 336 LTS 30-30 and my Rossi 357 trapper.

In the 30-30 I shoot everything from .311 round ball to 170 grain LFN. A real pleasure to carry and shoot.

The 357 gets everything from .360 round ball to 170 grain SWC. I carry the Rossi more because it is stainless and is set up with a peep sight.

Both serve equally well for my type of shooting and hunting.

That said, my Marlin in 35 Rem. shoots the same .360 ball clear up to 200 grain round nose. A GREAT small game load in the 357 and the 35 Rem is the Lee 105 grain SWC using Unique.

If I had to pick a first rifle to learn cast boolits with it would be the 357 because of the easier casting and straight sided cases and a 30-30 right behind as fast as possible.

YMMV

303Guy

09-24-2011, 06:12 PM

As a first caster I would pick the 30-30 for the same reasons lonnydk outlines. The 30-30 has a beautiful long neck that can house a long boolit or a wad behind the boolit. Case capacity seems to be about perfect for a slow burning powder that fills the case for maximum cast performance with a heavy boolit and mild pressure. That's my thinking anyway.

Me not you

09-25-2011, 06:14 AM

A couple of things to think about for working with light loads in a centerfire.
1) Constant use of light loads in a rimless case results in shoulder setback. Rimmed cases work better for this.
2) More case capacity allows higher power loadings.

The Moisin Nagant in 7.62x54R and the SMLE in .303 British are both excellent surplus rifles for the full spectrum of cast bullet loads. Those who mentioned the .30-30 are correct in their praise of that cartridge.

The Moisin Nagant is cheap, reliable, safe and extremely strong. I would not hesitate to recommend a good one for anyone starting in casting. The SMLE is the one of the fastest to operate bolt actions and an excellent shooter (ask England's enemies who faced it).

In my case, I'm working with a Mini-30 and the LEE 312-155-2R and I'm happy with what they do.

Christorbust

09-25-2011, 06:08 PM

The Moisin Nagant in 7.62x54R and the SMLE in .303 British are both excellent surplus rifles for the full spectrum of cast bullet loads.

The SMLE is the one of the fastest to operate bolt actions and an excellent shooter (ask England's enemies who faced it).

I've been looking at the SMLE's a little bit lately. Which models are the favored ones? Also, what is a good sight to look at surplus rifles at?

Marlin Junky

09-25-2011, 06:39 PM

I am looking into getting a rifle, and I would like a little help on deciding which caliber would be best for my current desires first, then I will try to find the correct rifle. I want a rifle that should love cast, because I do :D I've deer hunted before with 30/30 and 30.06, I kind of feel that with cast boolits the latter might almost have more than needed case capacity (am I wrong?)

I would like a rifle that would be able to take deer, it doesn't have to turn them inside out, be the best at it, or reach a mile out. So the Barrett 50 cal is out :bigsmyl2: I honestly think I would prefer a rifle with less power, therefore less lead/powder/bruised shoulder. Call me a wimp, but I LOVE shooting a 22 all day, and will continue to love it.

I want one that will be as cheap as possible to reload/cast for. Meaning a common caliber, and maybe even something that is a commonly found military surplus rifle, would be fantastic. I'm starting to get jealous of you 1903 springfield holders...

At the moment I was thinking along the lines of 30/30, 30.06, probably because these are the only deer rifles I've ever fired. The cheaper it is to feed this thing the more I will shoot it and enjoy it.

Alas I'm quite new to all this so I was hoping to have your help/suggestions/wisdom/dirty rotten opinions.... thanks!

(I currently reload for 9mm, so I have some ~.356 molds, and am set up for .223 rem, but do now have a rifle in that cal)

30-30, 308 or 32Spl, the former two with 12" twists. If you can find pre '55 Marlins for the rimmed cartridges, you don't need a slower twist 30-30. The biggest draw back with the pre '55 Marlins is they didn't come factory drilled and tapped for scope mounts; however, if you're still young enough, you can learn to shoot 1.5MOA with a nice old Marlin and a Williams FP. The .32Spl, if you can find a good one comes in one cast boolit loving twist: 1 turn in 16".

Others have mentioned .35 and .38 calibers and the 16" twist .35s are great but the .38s can be a headache for the beginner in terms of bore/groove diameter. One poster mentioned the .375 Winchester which I think would be a better choice than a 38-55; however, neither of which are going to simply fall into your hands. There's a heck of a lot more 444s and 45-70 out there than the medium bores but now we are getting into big chucks of alloy.

I really don't see how one can beat the 30-30 or .308 if just starting out. The difference between the two would be the 30-30 will handle just about any mold design, while the .308 does better with the single lube groove bore riders because of its short neck. The ultimate compromise would be the 30-'06 which does well using SR-4759. The 30-30 digests it all and never gets heart burn.

MJ

303Guy

09-25-2011, 07:55 PM

I need a hungry rifle caliber to feed cast too!!!The title of this thread just about spells 30-30 to me. My ideal cast cartridge would be the 30-40 Krag because to me it has all the characteristics of the 30-30 but with more case capacity. But then I'm wanting to throw heavies at a reasonable velocity. Not sure I actually need to but I just want to be able to. But then I'm thinking of drilling a piggy from head to tail. And red deer look pretty big when viewed through a scope! Case capacity wise, the 303 Brit is about right for me (same capacity as the 308 Win). The 8mm Mauser might be a thought if one can find a decent one at a decent price. But the Lee Enfield is still hard to beat. But it can also be hard to cast for.

Marlin Junky

09-25-2011, 09:30 PM

My ideal cast cartridge would be the 30-40 Krag because to me it has all the characteristics of the 30-30 but with more case capacity.

30-40 is good too... essentially a long neck .308W with a rim. However, good luck finding a rifle chambered for one and the added effort/expense to locate brass isn't worth the gain* over the 30-30... especially a 30-30 with a 12" twist and 24" or longer barrel; e.g., a Winchester Legacy or some sort of a commemorative.

MJ

* Gain with respect to cast.

Old Goat Keeper

09-26-2011, 02:45 AM

Using the OP's original requirements I'd have to say 30-30 even tho I don't have one! And no on ehas mentioned about reloading equipment costs. I LOVE Lee classic hand loaders for the price. And it is made in many, including 30-30, of the calibers mentioned. They also work well with cast and you can use them most anywhere. Junior D. of this forum has loaded 30-30 ammo in camp and also in his tent using a Lee loader!

T-o-m

adrians

09-26-2011, 03:09 PM

1st choice for me is 30-30.
2nd would be the 45-70.
ofcourse the 45-70 might just turn your target "varmint" inside out:evil:[smilie=w::evil:

Northface37

10-02-2011, 11:30 PM

The very first rifle I ever killed a deer with is a 30.30. It did the job with no problem. I now hunt with a 30.06 and have been for 10yrs now. I will be the first one to tell you that from experience, having the most powerful rifle in the world wont bring down your game if you aren't accurate with the rifle your shooting. But you already know the countless stories, cause I hear it all the time. And also as we all know, a well placed shot from a simple .22 can also bring down a deer, but like the rest of us youre looking with something with a little more umph. The 30.30 has significantly less recoil than 30.06. I know that there are different factors behind that. As mentioned the 30.30 is lighter to carry as well which can also play a role in decision making process.

I personally like and lean towards the 30.30 simply due to the fact that you may be able to get the same performance out of the 30.30 as you can an ought 6 (knockdown power that you want to achieve, velocity,etc...)

If I were you I would get my hands on both rifles and take them out and do a little field test to see which you like best. I know you have access to a 30.30 lever, now if only you knew someone who owned a savage 30.06...... hmmmM!

Crash_Corrigan

10-03-2011, 05:27 AM

And that is a crime. This is a wonderful cartridge. There is plenty of new brass available and if you don't mind a little work you can make some from 30-06 casings.

You can shoot cast all day long at 1800 FPS over some 8 to 10 gr of Unique and get a very nice plinking or small game round with a lighter boolit.

Or you can cast a 140 GR lead boolit and over some Unique have a very nice deer round.

Or you can buy a J word bullet and get a much higher velocity bullet that is very accurate out to over 300 yds and it will deliver as much power as you will ever need for anything walking on feet in North America except maybe Grizzlies or Polar Bears.

A decent Swedish Mauser can be still be found and they are very nice rifles. The lyman 266469 mold is a very decent mold for this calibre.

I had a 8 x 57 MM Mauser 98/22 that was made by BRNO in CZ in 1924. It was heavy, ugly and tough to carry around. I had a local gunbuilder install a Douglas Match Grade 6.5 MM barrel on it and he worked over the bolt, added a decent safety, mounted my scope and put it all in a thumbhole laminated stock and blued it up to make one gorgeous rifle.

With a good j word bullet at 100 yds I get 1/2 to 3/4" groups. With a cast boolit I get 3/4 to 1" groups at 100 yds. I sling 140 gr lead boolits all day long at 300 to 500 yds over Unique for just pennies a shot. The casings last forever and I enjoy the CLANG of a lead slug hitting the steel.

This caliber has been used forever in Scandanavia to take Moose and Caribou and is very effective since the boolit is so long. It bucks the wind well and does not lose velocity as fast as a shorter boolit.

Cheap to shoot for plinking and small game and if you want to hunt the big things then a top quality j word bullet of 140 to 160 gr is the way to go for those long shots. For shorter distances a 140 gr lead slug over Unique will take any deer at up to 250 yds.