Anybody patched the Swiss Vetterli?

[Chicken Thief]

Got one today and have another one coming[smilie=w:
Vetterli's that is.

Seems that there's not a proper BP boolit to be had for this caliber (.430" 340gr). I know, cough up for a custom, but it will cost me +50-60% extra in customs and WAT. $200-300 (what i paid for the first rifle!) is not funny when 348 Winnie brass will set me back $2 a pop and a Lee dieset another $85-90.

I just might try making a PP mould in the next few days for a test.

[Nobade]

I haven't paper patched any for mine, but I do shoot it quite a bit. Here's what I have learned.

For a bullet, I use Lyman 446110 designed for the 43 Mauser, cast it from 20:1, dip lube it with Bullshop's NASA, and run it through a .433" push through sizer. No sweat, it gets a lot longer and skinnier and with the lube grooves full they don't collapse.

For cases I use Privi Partisan 8X60R Lebel. Since the chamber has no end to it, case length doesn't matter. I cut mine to 1.6 inches, so the case mouth ends up at .433". I fireform them with shotgun powder and Cream 'O' Wheat and they're ready to go. They are WAY cheaper than 348 Win cases, and in the case of my rifle the 348 cases are too tight at the base.

For dies I don't use any. I bought the Lee dies, and they are no where near the same shape as the chamber of my rifle. The only thing useful in those dies is the shellholder, and that is the wrong size. They give you one for the 45-70 and it's way too small. I annealed it, recut it with a keyway cutter, and rehardened it. Now it works. Don't bother with dies, you don't need them. But you do need a shellholder, to reprime the cases.

For powder I use Swiss 1 1/2 F. I figure out where to set my powder measure so it throws a case full. Then I drop tube that, and it leaves just enough room for the bullet. Those are hand seated, and it's ready to shoot. I set the bullet so it is jammed slightly into the throat, to keep it lined up. Doing it this way I can shoot all day by blowtubing between shots, the bullets track perfectly with the sights to 750M, (longest shot I have at our range) and accuracy is extremely good. After firing, I deprime the cases and clean them in stainless steel media, dry, reprime, and they are ready to go. Since I cut them to the right length the bullet fits properly and no dies are needed.

The reason I haven't tried to paper patch for this round is it would hold a lot less powder to make room for the lube wad column. It only holds 57gr. anyway, and needs all of it to shoot to the sights. If I didn't use a lube wad I'd have to wipe between shots. And I can't imagine it being any more accurate with PP than it is now. So, I stick to the GG bullets and have fun shooting. A few breaths with the blow tube, no wiping, and I'm ready for the next shot. I have not tried it with smokeless powder and don't intend to, but with black it is sure a whole lot of fun and draws a crowd at the firing line. Neat old rifles!

[Chicken Thief]

Thanks for the good info.

[John Boy]

CT, maybe this will be of help:
* Send an email to The Single Shot Exchange and order the back copy of the Nov 2006 Issue, with the Swiss 1870 Vetterli Cadet Rifle by William Roth article in it. It is soup to nuts including making the PP rounds bullets and wrapping
* You can also order the Magnus 300gr Truncated Cone bullets, load them and shoot.
* Also, from Lee Precision, order the 41 Swiss mold (27 bucks) that was a custom design by Bill Roth and John Lee now carries it as a stock mold
* Of course, you understand the starting point to make you PP mold is the groove diameter of YOUR rifle because the Vetterli bores vary from 426 to 435
* No of PP wraps for BP=2 and no wraps for smokeless= 4 further up on the ogive
* Brass: 348 cases have been discontinued. Best to order the Lebel cases from Buffalo Arms Co because they have sucked off the business that Jamison had making them.

Good Luck in your PP Venture

[PatMarlin]

Would like to see pics of your Vetterli. I'm thinking about getting one, one of these days.

[Chicken Thief]

Sorry Pat but i got carried away in another thread and made my Vetterli "tactical" so i only got theese pics of it (after convertion)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1414267&postcount=73

[PatMarlin]

I would think they would have came by and hauled you off by now for building such an evil rifle CT.

Flame thrower probably gave em' second thoughts on it.. :mrgreen:

[Chicken Thief]

Sorry Pat and others!
I got carried away on that tactical thinghttp://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Blandet/Smilere/Youwish.gif

It is in fact a very interesting rifle:

The cartridge elevator is ripped from the Henry/Winchester rifle.
The chamber has no throat.
The 12 shot tube mag is completly incased in the front stock and cant be seen from the outside.
The rear sight has no "steps" and can be adjusted from 250m to 1200m in 50m marked increments.
Vindage is adjusted on the rear sight.
A spare striker was carried under the budplate.
A built in fingerrest.
And all that was done before 1868, when most European armies was equipped with frontloaders and needlefire singleshots.

You get the drift?

Some pics of the oddieties:

Chamber
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/41swisschamber.jpg

Rear sight at 300m and 350m
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010600.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010601.jpg

Rear sight vindage
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010602.jpg

Tube mag in front stock
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010604.jpg

Trigger guard
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010605.jpg

But the standard sighting distance is 225m and others have stated that it needs another 6mm sight height to be on par at 50m, so i made a new front sight.
Please be gentle it's a mockup prototype!
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010609.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010610.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010606.jpg

Brass and dies are in the mail.

[PatMarlin]

Yaw- vee need the vindage on the vear sight...

I want one CT. Awesome rifle. Is yours center fire converted?

[Chicken Thief]

By me self Pat.

I'll do you one tomorrow.

[Nobade]

I know it is an old thread, but I just got back from playing with some paper patched loads in my Vetterli today and am very impressed with what it does. I made a mould to throw a 320gr. round nose slick at .425", that patches up to .433". Loads of .3cc IMR4227 + 3.1cc black powder and a wad stack of a card, 1/4 inch grease cookie, and another card on top followed by the boolit hand seated. Shooting at 200 yds gave a group close to 2 inches, and repeat shots were no problem. I think I have found how to really make this rifle sing!

-Nobade

[RugerFan]

I bought the Lee dies, and they are no where near the same shape as the chamber of my rifle. The only thing useful in those dies is the shellholder, and that is the wrong size.

The Lee dies I got last year are also off (shoulder is much lower). I just backed the die off so it's only neck sizing. Works fine. I like the added neck tension.

[Nobade]

Yep, depending on how big a boolit you want to shoot in it that would be a good thing to do. I slugged the bore of this rifle and decided I needed a .433" boolit. So then I just cut off the cases until they were that size at the mouth and go with that. With the PP loads I hand seat them anyway, and they are perfect - I can pull the boolits out if I want to but they don't fall out if the cartridges are turned upside down and shaken. I ended up with cases of 1.6", but it doesn't seem to matter how long they are within reason. I don't have any original ones here but they look a lot shorter in pictures compared to mine.

-Nobade