500 and the Lee mold Questions

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Has anyone cast/load the Lee C501-440-RF for 500 S&W ?
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=266944

Which powder have you tried ? H110 / 296 ? or other ?

I picked up some starline brass, it has an R on the HS after the MAG.
the lyman manual says to use a Rifle Primer,
should I use a standard or Magnum ?


I finally picked up my S&W 500 from Cabela's yesterday morning.
Here's a photo next to my 686...the thing is monsterous for a 4" bbl
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/leftandright.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/bothleftside.jpg

[tek4260]

With grips like that, there may be hope for a 500 in my future! So much nicer than the rubber.

[subsonic]

Those grips are great! Are those Herrett's?
Have not played with a .500 s&w yet, but I'm drooling about that one!

I suspect John Ross will stick his head in the door any minute now...

[onondaga]

After you try all the heavy boolits in the 500 S&W and need a change from the recoil, there are plenty of options.

The Lee R.E.A.L muzzle loading 50 cal boolits can be sized to .501" for the .500 and they weigh 250 and 320 grains.

Muzzle loading sabots in 50 cal. can be stuffed with light 45 cal handgun boolits for hyper velocity and low recoil in the .500

I use the 250 gr R.E.A.L in a .500 Handi and it is superb in accuracy and knockdown on deer.

Gary

[44man]

The "R" is for rifle primers. There is brass for LP primers out there so make sure and NEVER use a rifle primer in LP cases.

[ebner glocken]

Lee C501-440-RF for 500 S&W

Yes, I have used this boolit with anywhere bewteen 32-38 grains of ww-296 in my BFR. It hurts and is just a tad beyond my pain threshold for comfort. The hard part for me has been getting the crimp to hold and not get vertical stringing from OALs going all over the place when the cylinder is loaded up. Shot single loaded is quite accurate. 36 grains has got me a 5 shot group of 2" @ 100 yards before, once again was single loaded.

I don't shoot this gun often nor do I download it. Hot loads just plain hurt. If I want a smaller gun I grab a smaller gun. In my opinion the whole reason for shooting a 500 is it's the most powerful revolver you got.

Ebner

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I picked up one box of store bought Ammo at cabela's
just to try it out yesterday, Dies, mold, and stuff are coming,
I don't know when it'll all get here,
ANYWAY,
the Ammo was made by "H.S. Munitions" out of MT
350 gr. JHP.
with all the porting, and the big fat wood grips,
there really wasn't much muzzle flip and surely no painful recoil.
I've shot hot 44 Mag loads in a pacmeyer griped 4" 629 that were truely painfull
BUT...LOTS of muzzle blast with that porting though.
It felt like I was hit by an EMP !
definately glad I had shooters glasses on.
My farmer friend shot it and the old set of headphone style ear protection
he was wearing slid off from the first blast.


subsonic,
I don't know who made the grips,
I really like them though...Look nice, feel nice.
I didn't get the original grips with it :( But I guess that doesn't matter.

Gary,
I've read in many threads of your experiences with the real.
I do have the 350 real that I may try.
But I have lots of small guns,
So I am with Ebner on that,
I plan on shooting loads designed for this gun.
hence my original question about H110 or 296
Jon

[parisite]

I've had a 500 Handi-Rifle a couple of years now and absolutely love the thing. The best $300 in firearms I've spent. It pegs the fun meter out. I've experimented a good bit with gas check bullets of various weights buying online (mattsbullets.com) and really like bullets from 350-410 grains. I load all bullets to listed max. If I want a less powerful load I'll shoot my Freedom Arms 44 Mag. I don't plan on buying any more bullets because I'm going to start casting my own but I'd rather have a lighter option than the Lee 440gr mould. But it is cheap, I'll probably get it anyway.

[subsonic]

I'm pretty sure the grips are Herretts.

[happyfast79]

the loads you shot must have been some of the light loads as it seems with the full house loads the rubber grips take alot of punishment away from your hand. once you get up in the 500-700 gr range they make a huge differance

[Whitworth]

VERY nice grips!

[carlsonwayne]

I loaded some of those cast with wheel weight, at 38 grains 296, and ended up picking shaved lead out of my face that evening. I am uncertain why it threw the lead back at me, but it hurt. I found that load on the net before any of the books had data. I can't find any books with that load. Perhaps it was too much powder? It was fun to shoot, except for the leading. Now, for most of my lead bullet loads, I use Trail Boss (I fail to recall the weight I use) and they come out like a 44 mag hot load. Much easier to play with. I also gas check all my lead bullets just because. I also found that those bullets will work as a slug for the 20 gauge. Load as normal for a one ounce load, use the bullet instead of shot, and finish as usual. When I do that, I cast them out of pure lead. They are accurate, and will blast through both sides of a propane tank at 50 yards. Interestingly enough, the WW loads from the 500 will only go through one side of the tank and dent the other side at the same distance.

[stubshaft]

Hey Jon B,
I usually feed my 500's Lil Gun or 296. Both work well I use 31.0 gr LG or 35.0 296 behind that boolit and Felix or BAC lube.

If I wanted less recoil I would have stuck to my 454 Casull.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I loaded some of those cast with wheel weight, at 38 grains 296, and ended up picking shaved lead out of my face that evening. I am uncertain why it threw the lead back at me, but it hurt.

Which gun ? was it ported ?

I'm wondering if the shaved lead came from the porting/expansion chamber of a 4" gun like mine...or from the cylinder/barrel throat gap ?



stubshaft,
thanks for your info.
Jon

[carlsonwayne]

Mine is the 8 3/8 barrel, ported with the interchangeable port, one for lead loads, the other for jacketed. I was using the lead port. I figure it came from the porting, but I don't know. Once I slowed them down, I haven't had any lead come back. Recoil was more than any other loads I have shot through it, too. I have never tried them with the jacketed port. My best speculation is that the lead was shaved at the port, but I can't say with 100% certainty. It won't blow the gun, so perhaps someone else would be willing to do some research and try for themselves??? Lee C501-440-RF cast from wheel weights, sized to .501, no gas check, and 38 grains of 296. If anyone is dumb enough to try it, I strongly recommend safety glasses. I always have glasses on, and they are a safety lenses in standard frames (illogical, but the safety frames are hideous), so I didn't have any eye leading. I don't know if any lead hit the lenses, if it did, I didn't notice it. I have considered using 75% WW and 25% Tin with a gas check just to see if the harder lead and gas check make a difference, but I didn't enjoy picking all that lead out that evening. When I want a load that feels good and kicks hard, I load jacketed to just below the max in the book I use. When I just want to play/plink, I use these with the Trail Boss and gas check. One thing, I neglected to comment about, is that the lead only hit the left side of my face. I am right handed.

[carlsonwayne]

Oh, I neglected to include that I use the Lee tumble lube.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

carlsonwayne,
thanks for the info.
please don't take this as critizism...it's more of a diagnosis from what I've read.
Although I have seen 38 gr. of 296 mentioned before,
To me, it seems a little hot for a boolit w/o a gas check,
if you had some gas-cutting happening, I imagine that could
have caused some Lead shaving in the ports.
I've read that 296 and H110 are grain for grain identical...taking that with a grain of salt,
the Lyman cast boolit handbook specs the 440 gr. Lee boolit
and calls for a starting load of 31 gr. of H110
and a max load of 34.5 gr. and that load moved the GCed Lee 440
in a 10" barrel to a Muzzle Vel. of 1599 FPS and 41,500 PSI.
they also mention a PB boolit will probably start leading a
barrel anywhere above 40,000 PSI. and that's using
Lyman #2 Alloy which is much harder than straight WW alloy
Lyman didn't mention which lube, But I assume it's one of theirs.
I plan on using BAC or Carnuba Red.

I plan on trying the H110 first,
but with the short 4" barrel, my second choice if I don't like the results of H110,
is a faster powder like 2400 or Blue Dot.

[parisite]

If some people don't like H110, I highly recommend IMR 4227. A tad bit slower powder, not quite as harsh on recoil and very accurate. Also, not very well known but Accurate 4100 (same as Ramshot Enforcer) powder performs magnificently. All powders I mentioned don't need a magnum primer.

[carlsonwayne]

I checked my book, and I use 10 grains of Trail Boss with that bullet. It is like a nice hot 44 mag. JonB, I find no criticism. I think I said in my first post about it that that was the only load I could find at the time. I will NEVER trust a single source of internet load data again. Parisite, are those powders good for the cast bullets?? It would be nice to find a good safe, non-face-leading load that is appropriate for such a wonderful gun.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Well,
I finally got time to load and shoot the Lee 501-440 in my S&W 500 today.
I used 28 gr. of AA#4100 with the GCed sized to .501 and using Carnuba Red.
(starting Load in Lyman cast manual.)

I started shooting a 38 spl, to check a gun for a friend, very accurate.
then I fired 22 rounds in the 500...well, that was punishing,
most shots off the paper after about 3 rounds, I had developed a flinch.
Then, I switched back to the 38, I couldn't hit anything.
so I drove home...wondering why I bought this big gun and wondering
why I have a GB mold coming for it ???
Maybe I try a few loads just under 28 gr.
like 25 gr, then 26 gr. then 27 gr.
to see if they are as punishing.
Jon

[jhrosier]

Not in a handgun, but I shoot the Lee boolit in a NEF Handi Rifle.
The load is a case full (uncompressed) of Triple Seven ffg grade.
I'm too cheap to pay for gas checks so I use wads punched from 1/32" plastic
It is a lot of fun and pretty accurate too.
BTW, lube is Lars carnauba red, melted dipped and pushed thru a Lee die.

Jack

[lunicy]

I use them with 12gr of unique behind then in a bfr. Real nice shooting.

[freedom475]

Yes sir, I can see no reason to shoot a 4" gun at 1500fps with a 450gr. Kieth just for fun...

The notion that I bought a 500 so I have to POUND myself all day just cause I can, doesn't make any sense.[smilie=s:

Load her up around 850-1000fps with Trail Boss, Blackhorn 209, or Unique and enjoy it!...At these speed it is easier to shoot than a hot 44 mag and still more poweful. The 450gr cast will still shoot through anything walking, even at these speeds.

I went one step further, adding to my 4" 500 enjoyment, and I got a new muzzle break without the holes. Now I can shoot without the huge muzzle blast, and my favorite..-lead and powder spray to the face ,..and no more deafining blast to my ear(yeah I wear plugs, but plugs and muffs are still not enought to keep your hearing un-damaged with this beast and its fire breathing compensator....lol

I love my 4" 500...I love my horse to...but it doesn't mean I want to stand behind it and let it kick me in the face for fun:Fire::drinks:

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Well,
I had better luck with this gun with slighlty reduced loads.
still using AA#4100 I tried 25 gr. and 26.5 gr.

Yesterday at the range with these loads, I was able to hit the target.
and the 25 gr. I was able to get 4" groups at 50' offhand.
still a handfull, but much more managable.
I also had a 41 Mag along, that I just picked up at the local gunstore.
a 3" S&W 657. I had one years ago that I got cheap at an auction,
then someone wanted it more than I did. I regreted that sale til yesterday.
this new to me 657 has an awesome trigger...must have had some work
done to it. Nice feeling finger groove stocks...and was accurate with my
196 gr WC (Accurate Molds) hand loads (7 gr. of red dot)
Jon

[Gunslinger1911]

Freedom475, if you don't mind my asking, where did you find a "blank" muzzle break ???

I trolled around the 'net in the past but couldn't find one.

I have a JR500 without the break that is so much nicer to shoot !! If I can find a non-ported break, I might be able to enjoy the 4" more.

[wellfedirishman]

JonB, for reduced loads, I used 13 gr of Trailboss with the Lee 440 gr bullet with excellent results (2" at 25 yards with open sights in a S&W 500 6.5" barrel). Approx 860-890 fps per my chrony. Very pleasant to shoot.

[Gunslinger1911]

Oh, JonB, did you ever figure out what brand those grips are ? Very nice !!!

[Jbar4Ranch]

And when folks give you a dumb look and ask you why you didn't go with the .460 [smilie=b:, remember this: "The .460 is for people who can't handle the .500!" :guntootsmiley:

I have a 4"er and an 8 3/8"er, and killed an elk with the longer one four years ago. :)

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Oh, JonB, did you ever figure out what brand those grips are ? Very nice !!!

I'm 99% sure they are custom made by Herrett...custom for someone with mitts a smig bigger than mine :(
Jon

[saz]

If the recoil is beating you up, give SR-4759 a try. I have not tried it with my lee 440 yet, but I use it with my 550gr mold and it is VERY accurate. You will not be producing all the velocity as the other powders but will have a very good case fill as it is a bulky powder. John ross wrote a very good article on powder choices for the 500 you should read on his site.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'm 99% sure they are custom made by Herrett...custom for someone with mitts a smig bigger than mine :(
Jon

Well, I thought I'd bring this thread back up,
I took the 500 out again yesterday and then again today.
mostly to try the other muzzle insert with less holes and
the hogue rubber S&W factory grips...AND YAWZA...those suck.
I much prefer the wooden grips,
I've decided that being seemingly Oversize is a very good thing
to disperse the felt recoil...the insert change didn't seem to
change much.

I also needed to empty some brass so I can load up
some recently cast PB NOE RN boolits from the
John Ross GB mold I just got :) 400 gr. and 500 gr. :)
Jon

[freedom475]

Yeah, the rubber grips just give the gun a running start at your hand...wood is the only way to go.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/38694f3dca5bf3c62.jpg

[olafhardt]

I shoot the Lee modern minie reversed over 6.4 grains of Unique out of my Handy rifle. I bought this gun to make a large caliber, heavy bullet, quiet stump knocker. It works. Reversing and seating the Minie flush takes up a lot of the excess space. I load one at a time with a dipper to prevent multicharging, although a double load is in spec It wouldn't fit my purpose.