Newby Help - Marlin 1894 CB 44

[Finsterino]

Hi Guys, I just took the plunge, and am getting very frustrated with this bullet / carbine combo. Nothing I have done can stop the keyholing at even 30 ft or so.

Mould: Using the Lee 240 gr SWC , diameter .430 , tumble lube bullet. Alox lube.

Barrel is 20". 1:38" twist. Slugs out at .4305". Shoots store-bought lead and jacketed just fine. No feeding problems either, with any bullet type.

Alloy is: Wheel weights, fluxed, water quenched. Bullets look great, and weight is within a couple of grains.

I have tried light loads with Alliant Zip, warm loads with 18 gr AA #9. I have beagled the boolits, then resized down to .432". Thankfully, I can load a few and test them in my front yard, so I have run a bunch of tests this week - THEY ALL KEYHOLE!

And I tried a couple of the loads in my SW revolver last night, and they seemed to be fine.

So, I may have to buy a different Lyman mold, or one of the more expensive ones. But what can I try with this mould to get some success?? [smilie=b:

TIA
Dave

[Gtek]

Is that slug chamber forward one inch and backed out or all the way through the pipe? General rule = Slug +.002 ", and lose the water drop. Try the clean straight WW first, and then try a batch WW/Stick-on 50/50 and under 1600fps. I am a Javelina pan lube fan, but pick your poison. Mic a fired case mouth just for fun. Ain't it fun! Be Safe- Gtek

[Finsterino]

GTEK, thanks for the info. Let me answer questions: slug was full barrel; I first tried air quenched - that did not stabilize; fired cases are .457 nominal - what does that tell you? Where do you shoot? I have spent some time at the Port Malabar Club.

Today I had an inspiration, realizing that the store bought boolits are kinda short, while these lee's are kinda long (.74"). So I thought I would look up the bullet stabilization data. Beause every knows that a longer bullet needs a faster twist to keep it stable.

Lo and behold, the calc I used said these bullets need to move out at 1900 fps thru this 1:38" barrel. Fast!

So I loaded a few long (to keep pressure down) with 23 gr of W296. Quickload said I was approaching the velocity, while within reasonable/high pressures.

Viola! No keyholing! Went back and worked down to 22 grains at SAMMI length. Should be about 1600 fps. Need to find my chrony. Just shot half dozen of them: perfect round holes, and maybe a 4-5 MOA group. Cool Beans - I am on a roll!

[PacMan]

I dont thik that the bullet is to long to stablize. I shoot 265 and 280 gr bullets in my 1894 at 1600 to 1800 fps without issue.
One thing that may be the problem is i have yet to see a 1894 in 44mag that shot really well with anything less than a .433 bullet. I have only worked with three but they all prefered the larger bullet.

[Leadforbrains]

I dont thik that the bullet is to long to stablize. I shoot 265 and 280 gr bullets in my 1894 at 1600 to 1800 fps without issue.
One thing that may be the problem is i have yet to see a 1894 in 44mag that shot really well with anything less than a .433 bullet. I have only worked with three but they all prefered the larger bullet.

My same experience also. I got better accuracy sizing at .433
My favorite load is a Lyman devastator that weighs 267 grains, lubed with BAC lube, sized at .433, over 17.5 grains of 2400. That being said each rifle can be some what different.

[izzyjoe]

i use the Lee 310gr, and i was having trouble if i used Unique at low speeds. so i used H110 and speed them quite a bit, but they stablized.

[TCFAN]

My marlin cowboy also like .433 or even .434 boolits for the best accuracy.Doesn't matter what boolit from the Lee 200RFN to the 265 RD it wants them fat..........Terry

[Gtek]

Fisterino- I have been shooting at Malabar since the early seventies, dirt road and no gate. A fired case tells you what chamber size is so as not to exceed dimension (loaded O.D.) causing feeding issues and taking pressure out of bounds. Like the others have said, you should not be having a problem with the (long) bullet. Just so you think about it, sometimes creating airgaps with some powders cause extreme pressure spikes or flashovers. Please research all loads before you stuff. You are sticking your nose over a controlled explosion (supposed to be) @ 30K+ PSI. BULLET FIT IS KING! Just for giggles- I am leary about giving load data out but cast some up at .4325"-.433" and try a little 4227 @ 20 and 22gr's. Please confirm in Hodgdon manual (GOOD HABIT)! Be Safe-Gtek

[Finsterino]

GTEK, ya had me goin there for a minute. If you had said you shot at Malabar when it was at the end of Troutman (by Harris) you would have to be considered an Old Fart! Now, when I joined up, we did have a gate, but only the initial 40 acres. That was a long slow ride going down bumpy Malabar Road, wasn't it!

Some more info: first inch of throat slugs out at .4314" max, slightly larger than the barrel slug.

So maybe a 432 boolit is in order.

From the inside out (check my math):
432 boolit + 022 case walls = .454" which is 2 mil less than the fired neck size of .456"

Velocities: it seems that most everyone agrees that I need to keep the velocity up (to get it stabilized in flight). I guess I should find a shorter/lighter bullet for my girl scout plinking loads.

Dave

[Gtek]

Fisterino- I have been told knocking on door of old fart. I have been hearing at Doc's "NOW YOU ARE AT THAT AGE" what the Hell does that mean? I started down there with Dad, the orig 40 with barbed wire string that was never pulled across entrance. Dad was at Harris twenty four years, Eau Gallie boy since 61'. I think I would shoot for a .433", and yes at 20-22 gr's you get big bang but I am a thumper fan. Sounds like you need a 39A added to collection. A firearm for every mood, so many guns, so little time. Gtek

[Finsterino]

Things are looking good now. Based on some water trough tests (showing minimal obturation), I added a mess of lead to the mix. SG is 11.26; so that is something like 98% lead?

Also used Lee Alox, hoping for a better seal than with my paraffin BW mix.

Only shot 5 yesterday at 70 yards, but this target works out to be 4+ MOA. Barrel is nice and clean, too!

Hope to load a bigger batch today and stay in a similar sized group.