1903A3 30.06 powders

[perimedik]

Greetings folks,

I did a search of the forum and found some data suggestions.
I am looking to load for the 30.06 (Remington 1903A3 2 grove barrel)

trimmed brass and resized once fired through this rifle at 2.48"
Using Lee C309-150F (lubed, swaged and gas checked - weigh out at around 164/165 grains) BHN is 13.4 water quenched

I loaded a dummy round and chambers well at 3.05" So, what sould the COL be?

what powders are you using?
Starting/max loads so I can work them up accordingly?

I have IMR 3031, IMR 4064, IMR 4895
Also some BLC2 and H335 (looking at some bulk WC powder soon)

Thoughts, help?
I know get the Lyman Cast manual. I haven't had the chance...

[RU shooter]

Greetings folks,


I loaded a dummy round and chambers well at 3.05" So, what sould the COL be?

what powders are you using?
Starting/max loads so I can work them up accordingly?

I have IMR 3031, IMR 4064, IMR 4895
Also some BLC2 and H335 (looking at some bulk WC powder soon)

Thoughts, help?
I know get the Lyman Cast manual. I haven't had the chance... As for your OAL your rifle will tell you that , seat the bullet so the front band starts to just engage the rifling when you close the bolt.

I use mainly 2400 for my loads but I have no real need for higher vel. 16-20 grs work well for me for 200 yd target work with bullets in the 150-185 gr range.

I have used some 4895 but I personally didnt get the accuracy I needed or got with 2400.Others though have used it with excellent results.


Tim

[462]

Look into Unique, my '03-A3 loves it.

[skeet1]

I also use Unique in my 03-A3 with the Lee .312-185 sized .311.

Ken

[SharpsShooter]

2400


ss

[Ben]

perimedik

Let me also get in line to praise 2400.
Can you see why I like 2400 ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0003-28.jpg

[Char-Gar]

Another 2400 user here.

[perimedik]

OK, Looks like I need to buy some 2400.
Although I may need newer stock - I have sealed Hercules 2400
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/Powders/Powder004.jpg

Thanks
Right now I'm looking to punch paper at 100 yards. Iron Sights.

[Ben]

Use it ! ! !

[perimedik]

:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twis ted:

Use it ! ! !

[MtGun44]

yes - 16gr of 2400 is one of those 'mystical' loads that just seems to work very, very
well in many different calibers with many different cast boolits. Add 10 gr or a bit more of
Unique and you have a really good chance at a wonderful plinker load.

I have not personally used it much, but many swear by 13 gr of Red Dot, too.

Bill

[Char-Gar]

Shoot that old 2400, you can't sell it for more than you can buy the newer stuff. It is the cheaptest 2400 you will ever have.

I shoot the same load (311284/16/2400) from two 03A3s and four Krags and it does well in all of them. Sizing needs to be adjusted to the individual rifle.

[RU shooter]

As others have said as myself 2400 just plain works well ,Dont fear a little experimentation with it start around 15 grs and work up to maybe 20 grs. I found that 15.5, 17.5 and 19.0 grs are my sweet spots with the lee 185 bullet,everything in between shoots acceptable but those three just stack 10 rds in little groups .

[94Doug]

2400 here too....some unique light boolit loads.


Doug

[perimedik]

What is the minimum/maximums? I want to work it up not just plug and play...thanks

[MtGun44]

Just start with 16 gr 2400. That is NOT a max, you can definitely go to 17 or 18. I have
never needed to fiddle much with this one, usually 16 or 17 shoots great and I quit
fiddling. Similar with 10gr Unique, 12 is definitely safe. I never move far from 16 or 10, or
needed to.

Bill

[RU shooter]

What is the minimum/maximums? I want to work it up not just plug and play...thanksLyman has listed for the 150 gr 311440 Max is 31.0 :shock: ! Thats just crazy though.

[Ben]

At one time ( not much anymore ), I was shooting 11.5 grs. of Alliant Unique in the 06' with cast bullets from 160 grs. - 200 grs.

Amazingly accurate at 50 yards.

Ben

[perimedik]

does this 2400 need filler?
I am doing more reading here on reduced loads...

or is that powder (no filler) fine?

[MtGun44]

No filler required with the 16 gr 2400 or 10 gr Unique loads, one of the great attactions
of these two loads. They work very, very well in a wide range of cartridges and have
done so for many decades for many shooters. For any of the 'normal' military cartridges
of the 1890 through 1940 time frame, these two loads have proven time and time again
to work for a wide range of cast boolit wts. Of course, small capacity cartidges need to
be considered separately - no .30 Carbine, or 7.62x39 and I'd consider the 6.5 Carcano
and similar small enough to back off a touch. But the .30-40 Krag, 7.7Jap, 8x57, 7x57,
.30-06, 7.62x54R and all the similar ones will love these mild, accurate loads. Try a bit on either
side (~15 -18 or ~9 -12 or so) and see what your individual gun and boolit wt and design
finds optimum. These are two good "neighborhoods" for mild loads.

Bill

[WineMan]

In my 1903A3 the 16 gr Al 2400 and the 170 gr Fattest 30 (Loverin one) which drops at 0.318" (Mosin fodder) and pushed through a LEE 0.314 die makes one hole at 50 yards if I can hold steady enough. It also knocks down Rams at 200 meters (pistol/cast size).

Wineman

[cobbmtmac]

Perimedik,

Just another vote of confidence ...Re... 16grs of 2400. I have Spfd ..06's, Mod 54 Win 06's, 30-40 Krags & 308 Win. and this is my load.

A very kind Gentleman on this Board said to me about 7 years ago, "Mac, 16 grains of 2400 and never look back". It has been my load for these rifles every since. Besides producing MOA in each of these rifle every now and then, it just makes life simple.

My 2 cents worth,

[perimedik]

thjanks for all the help guys

[perimedik]

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/100_4452.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/100_4451.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/100_4532.jpg

worked a small batch
I did notice the bullet seater left a very fine cut in the bullet. We'll see how they shoot.
I'll make some adjustments on the next batch

[roverboy]

Perimedik, what brand mold is that? Love the flat point.

[94Doug]

My only concern, and maybe it's the photo itself, but some of the gas checks don't look like they seated quite square, like the two outside ones. It could be my vision too.


Doug

[perimedik]

Perimedik, what brand mold is that? Love the flat point.
LEE C-309-150F bought it for 30-30 however I still need an Lyman M die (Ordered) to use it on that brass.


My only concern, and maybe it's the photo itself, but some of the gas checks don't look like they seated quite square, like the two outside ones. It could be my vision too.
Doug

That pic was before being run through the Lee resizing die with the gas Checks on. They crimp on with the die. here is an after resize pic of the bases.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/100_4453-1.jpg

[94Doug]

Should be good to go. I think you should get great results!!


Doug

[Ben]

perimedik,

If you choose to shoot that bullet a lot in the future, you may want to get you a 2nd seating stem and put some JB weld inside the seating stem, take a bullet and grease the nose good, put the parts together in a vice and put slight compression on the 2 parts, let it set for 24 hrs.

Remove everything , clean up any surplus on the end of the seating stem and those ugly marks on the nose of your bullet would be " History ".

While you're waiting on your M Die , you can look in your tool box and find one of these tapered punches .( see photo below )

A couple of soft taps on the mouth of the case with one of these and your cast bullet will start in the seating die just fine. I used one for many years before buying a Lyman M - Die ( Which was a VERY good purchase )

I like enough flare for 3/4 - 7/8 of the height of the gas check to fit into the neck of the case.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/9713330_orig.jpg

[perimedik]

While you're waiting on your M Die , you can look in your tool box and find one of these tapered punches .( see photo below )
A couple of soft taps on the mouth of the case with one of these and your cast bullet will start in the seating die just fine.
I have a few in the shop and tried it, works fine. Thanks.

[Ben]

That will buy you some time until the M die arrives.

Ben

[mroliver77]

Keep us updated on your results. Check for leading in the barrel. Most of my 30-06 I size .310 or .311. I know some use the Lee .309 with good results but it never worked well for me.
With that light of boolit it would be no problem to go up a couple grains if needed. Like others I shoot the 311284 over 16gr 2400. Boolits weighs 210+gr.
Jay

[bootsnthejeep]

I just paddled out on this wave myself, finally got to shoot some cast bullets out of my sporterized A3. Nothing to hoot and holler about, still getting things dialed in, but 2400 is showing promise. Haven't tried unique tho, but it's on my list.

I was telling another reloading friend about the 16 grains of 2400 "magic number", he'd never heard of it before. He flipped open a reloading manual and noted that "The minimum load in here is 19 and it goes up to 24! 16 can't be right, that's not fast enough."

To which I regurgitated a now-favored saying I picked up here: "Well, you're car will DO 100 mph, but you don't need to drive it that fast ALL the time!"

I was very pleased with the light 2400 loads, I only worked up to 18 grains. Still much better than that old milsurp M2 ball ammo that was beating the snot out of me on the bench.

The very thought of guys in canvas uniforms, shooting full-tilt-boogie milsurp ammo, with a STEEL buttplate makes my head hurt. I've got a 1" thick limbsaver on it and it only helps somewhat. I start flinching em off the paper after one box. Let alone hitting a man sized target at 200 meters with rounds cracking over my head.

Days of wooden ships and iron men, I guess.

Sorry. That went on a bit of a tangent. My mind wanders.

[perimedik]

Went to the range today,
got off 10 rounds of 30/30 (scoped rifle) 10 round of 30.06 (Iron Sights) and my phone rings.

My son is sick and vomiting at school. Packed up and left, couldn't wait for the cease fire to collect my targets - I did notice both cartridges shot lower than my point of aim and group were fairly tight. So I guess I'll have to wait until my next day off.

I will say though the light loads were a pleasure to shoot. Like bootsnthejeep said, way different than the CMP M2 Ball stuff I am used to shooting out of the 03A3. Almost felt like I was shooting an airsoft gun

[Mark Daiute]

Perimedik,

Just another vote of confidence ...Re... 16grs of 2400. I have Spfd ..06's, Mod 54 Win 06's, 30-40 Krags & 308 Win. and this is my load.

A very kind Gentleman on this Board said to me about 7 years ago, "Mac, 16 grains of 2400 and never look back". It has been my load for these rifles every since. Besides producing MOA in each of these rifle every now and then, it just makes life simple.

My 2 cents worth,

I saw this last night and decided to head the call.In my Krags I've had mediocre results with both my 311284's and my 2400 powder. Last night I loaded some up with this prescription and had a chance to test them in my backyard range. The 1" groups 2of my Krags produced tell me that this will equate to good groups at 200 yards when I get the chance to go to the range. Sorry to hi-jack the thread but THANK YOU!

[tomon]

28to 29 grains of IMR4895 over most any gas checked 170-190 Cast bullet. I use 28.3 grains behind a Saeco 307 sized .310 in a Rock Island 03, and it shoots 100-7x's all day long.

[Char-Gar]

I just paddled out on this wave myself, finally got to shoot some cast bullets out of my sporterized A3. Nothing to hoot and holler about, still getting things dialed in, but 2400 is showing promise. Haven't tried unique tho, but it's on my list.

I was telling another reloading friend about the 16 grains of 2400 "magic number", he'd never heard of it before. He flipped open a reloading manual and noted that "The minimum load in here is 19 and it goes up to 24! 16 can't be right, that's not fast enough."

To which I regurgitated a now-favored saying I picked up here: "Well, you're car will DO 100 mph, but you don't need to drive it that fast ALL the time!"

I was very pleased with the light 2400 loads, I only worked up to 18 grains. Still much better than that old milsurp M2 ball ammo that was beating the snot out of me on the bench.

The very thought of guys in canvas uniforms, shooting full-tilt-boogie milsurp ammo, with a STEEL buttplate makes my head hurt. I've got a 1" thick limbsaver on it and it only helps somewhat. I start flinching em off the paper after one box. Let alone hitting a man sized target at 200 meters with rounds cracking over my head.


Days of wooden ships and iron men, I guess.

Sorry. That went on a bit of a tangent. My mind wanders.


Lots of data in loading books comes from pressure and velocity readings and not groups on the target. If they were selecting their load values from shooting at targets, much of the data would be different.

2400 is a great cast bullet powder, but try and use too much of it to push bullets much above 1.8K fps and accuracy will go south.

[perimedik]

best two groups of the 30/30 cast bullet strings (4 shots each) the top tighter group was 18 grains, the lower wider group was 18.5 grains of IMR 4198. Even though the POA was the same. 50 yards
I had a couple of rounds that didn't chamber well, they were tight when I placed them in battery and the bolt wouldn't close on them. Closser look showed the bullet was not as nicely formed as the others (some got by during inspection sizing lubing) I had a few other targets however these were the loads that worked best so far.
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/100_4596.jpg


1903A3 - 16 grains of Hercules 2400 -50 yards
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/100_4593.jpg

All in all not bad. I am happy with the results. Now that I have a load figured out. Make some more and practice with them they should get better...

Oh and the target stand I made met it's fate at the hand of 5.56 green tip ammo of doom...
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/IMG00745.jpg

[perimedik]

That will buy you some time until the M die arrives.

Ben

Oh and the M Die is here Yippeeee!

[Ben]

When you're adjusting the M die for your 1st time, go real slow with adjusting the center adjusting screw downward. If you go too fast, you'll ruin a case.

Ben

[ilcop22]

Does the 16 grain 2400 load work as a hunting load, as well? Right now I'm backing 35 grains of 4895 into my 03a3... Getting the same results with less powder is, of course, the ultimate reloading goal.

[RU shooter]

Does the 16 grain 2400 load work as a hunting load, as well? Right now I'm backing 35 grains of 4895 into my 03a3... Getting the same results with less powder is, of course, the ultimate reloading goal. Yes it will kill a deer but If it were me I would go with a little higher vel. that load is only going 1500-1600 fps depending on the bullet.

[leadman]

I use a PVC pipe target frame also, but I did not glue mine together so I can replace a piece that takes a hit. I usually have extra pieces with me.

I have a Remington 2 groove barrel that did not start to perofrm well until I hit 19grs of 2400. The bore is a little large so I shoot .311" boolits.

Looke like your gun is doing well. I like not getting beat up also by my gun.

[Char-Gar]

If a man knows how to shoot a rifle and hunt deer, 16/2400 under a bullet with a decent meplat will do just fine. Don't shoot past 150 yards, under a 100 would be better.

[Ben]

Someone on this forum recently made the comment that 16 of 2400 wasn't adequate for deer in the 06' with a cast bullet. Once I read his comment,.............I really didn't need to read anymore. Ummmmm ? ?

Your're exactly right , with the correct meplat and / or HP design the above is a deadly load ! !

This load in the link below is within 75 fps of the specs you've described, look at what it did to a white-tailed deer .......................


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=44927

Ben

[Char-Gar]

Ben...Lots of folks shoot more with their mouths/fingers than they do with their rifles.

[Ben]

Char-Gar

I think the " key " to all this is what you've said so well :

If a man knows how to shoot a rifle and hunt deer

[P.K.]

Char-Gar

I think the " key " to all this is what you've said so well :

If a man knows how to shoot a rifle and hunt deer

"Chuckle" Me thinks anyone who thinks the 16/2400 formula as a non-starter for deer has never shot the black either. FWIW shot placement is a whole lot more important to me than velocity any day.

[SSGOldfart]

Hummmmmm I killed three last year with 2400 (the last of the 2400 I had)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!worked great for me

[Ben]

Hummmmmm I killed three last year with 2400 (the last of the 2400 I had)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!worked great for me


Ummm,? ? ? Maybe those 3 deer just didn't understand the reloading theories that are so pervasive on the velocity required to be a " good killer ". They knew no better than to simply fall over dead on the spot ? ?

Had they of been of the more intelligent variety, it would have taken over 3,000 fps to kill them................

[chboats]

My uncles kept the freezer full of deer meat with a 22LR. They claim to have never lost a deer. If a 40gr bullet at 1200fps will do it (in the right hands) what is the problem with a 170gr boolit at 1400fps (in the right hands)

Carl

[Redpoint]

At our club most everyone shoots 11 grains of Unique and a 190 grain bullet out of their 1903's or other 30-06's. We shoot silhouette matches every Sunday, so were not as concerned with punching holes that touch each other in paper. Our targets are the standard size BPC animals. 200 yds chickens, 300 yds pigs, 400 yds Turkeys and 500 yds Rams. You would be amazed how accurate a light load can be at distance.... Well I guess accurate is a relative term depending on what your trying to do.

[Larry Gibson]

Redpoint

You're shooting full size rams at 500 yards and knocking them over with that load?

Larry Gibson

[405]

If a man knows how to shoot a rifle and hunt deer, 16/2400 under a bullet with a decent meplat will do just fine. Don't shoot past 150 yards, under a 100 would be better. and "Ben...Lots of folks shoot more with their mouths/fingers than they do with their rifles."

Both statements- so true!

Could add more but it could get flamy and I don't want a time-out or get sent to the forum wood shed. :shock:

[WineMan]

With 11 grains of Unique at 500 yards all I can say is wow! I was happy to see Rams go down with 42 of IMR 4350. Of course a M1903 with its ladder sight to 2,600 yards would be better than the 800 yard sight on my M1903A3. A .300 BC bullet at 1,300 fps is something like 75 MOA drop at 550 yards. I need to learn more of how to do this!

Wineman

[SSGOldfart]

and "Ben...Lots of folks shoot more with their mouths/fingers than they do with their rifles."

Both statements- so true!

Could add more but it could get flamy and I don't want a time-out or get sent to the forum wood shed. :shock::kidding::kidding::kidding::kidding:

same here but I guess I'll just keep loading these light loads until something better comes down the pike??????????????????????????????????????[smilie=b:;)