Winchester 1892 strength?

[Watermelon Wine]

G'day all!

I've been raising kids instead of hell for the last few years but have just bought my first new rifle in about three years so I'm on the hunt for good info and learning again!

New rifle is a Winchester 1892 in 32-20 that I thought was a bargain at $245.

Serial # is 29,014 which puts it's year of manufacture in 1893!?!!?!?!

What sort of strength can I expect from the action?

Can I shoot it?

Should I duct-tape it to a tree and pull the trigger with a string?

I "WAS" thinking of making a hot load for it in case I ever ran into some wild pigs but now that I've found the year of manufacture I'm thinking plinker loads only.

Am I on the right track? Any thoughts? Prior experience?

Regards and thanks!

Watermelon Wine

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'm not the final word on 1892s but I have had some experience with them and own three old ones.

I think that the ones made prior to 1896 were not the modern steel. After that they were made with nickle alloyed into the steel I believe and are much stronger.

I'd be loathe to proceed with anything other than black powder loads until the gun is checked out properly. I think if it is to be your main or only hunting arm, you should be able to clean it up and resell it at a profit and buy a more modern gun.

I have a 92 in 32/20 and it is a nice gun, but mine was made in 1927, so I can shoot smokeless loads ok.

It would be a shame to blow the old girl up, especially with you hanging onto it and especially with $245 tied up in it.

[KirkD]

The average age of my old Winchesters that I shoot is about 110 years old. I'm sure your old 1892 is safe to shoot, but just to make sure, Make sure the bore is free of obstructions and that there are no visible problems and that the rifle still has both locking lugs, one on either side of the bolt. The Model 1892 action is massively over designed for the 32-20. The action will not fail. If anything is going to fail, it is the chamber from a double charge of powder. I know of one 32-20 that has a bulged chamber but the action is just fine. The fellow still shoots it safely but has to shoot plinking loads only, otherwise, the brass case takes on the bulged shape of the chamber and is hard to extract.

I would stick with published loads and stay away from maximum published loads. Mid range published loads should be fine. Shoot nothing but smokeless in all my old Winchesters. However, for my 32-20's, I enjoy shooting them at original black powder velocities ... Around 1,200 fps. I've taken a lot of small game at that velocity with a 90 grain or a 115 grain bullet. The 32-20, because of it's almost non-existent recoil, is a great gun for enjoyable shooting or for introducing kids to shooting.

[Watermelon Wine]

Thank you Four-Fingers!

Would the pistol load data from ADI's website: http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/pistol.asp
(Lead 115grain, 2.5 grains TRAILBOSS (max) 705FPS 15,300 CUP) be significantly above blackpowder pressure levels?

[Watermelon Wine]

Hi Kirk,

Is there a site that lists pressure generated by blackpowder loads?

Four-Fingers mentioned a date of around 1896 as the time at which steel technology went ahead a bit of a leap.. Are any of your '92's made before then?

Would the steel in a modern barrel offer additional safety margin in the chamber area? I'm expecting to spend a bit of time/money on this thing... but I enjoy the tinkering...

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thank you Four-Fingers!

Would the pistol load data from ADI's website: http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/pistol.asp
(Lead 115grain, 2.5 grains TRAILBOSS (max) 705FPS 15,300 CUP) be significantly above blackpowder pressure levels?

I would have thought that that was a bit slow for hunting ammo (and I don't know about there, but here Trailboss comes in a biggggggggggggg keg here, 1.5Kg/4Lbs, if you don't like it, it will take you a long time to get rid of it, try and borrow a cupful off a mate).

KirkD is right, the rifle is well overengineered for the cartridge and it should be alright, I'd still like to pull it apart and check out the locking lugs and lug ways, etc. When the lever is closed you can see the top of the two lugs at the rear of the action. Hold the lever closed and check the lugs out and try and wiggle them, they ahould be a good snug fit.

I bought an excellent 120Gn mould off Willbird a few years ago. I would keep the velocity down to 1200fps as Kirkd suggests, maybe increase boolit weight a bit to compensate. Study the reloading info and avoid high pressure loads. No sense pushing the envelope.

[John Taylor]

The biggest problem you will run into on your 92 with hot loads will be the oversized firing pin and blowing primers. Late 92s have a smaller diameter pin. All modern 32-20 ammo is supposed to be loaded to BP pressures but not every one obeys the rules. I have found that Buffalo Bore ammo is loaded very hot. SAMMI specs are 16,000 PSI for this round. Might be best to stay away from the fast burning powders when reloading to help prevent a double charge. For example, a standard load of 3 grains of Bullseye is in the book but it would be very easy to put 6 or more in the case and cause some real damage. Might look at using 4227.

[Four Fingers of Death]

That Trail Boss load would be a great plinking load with reject boolits!

[Dean D.]

In my 1939 edition of Phil Sharpes "Complete Guide To Handloading" Mr. Sharpes states that older (pre smokeless) rifles and all pistols should be loaded under 15,000 psi. His data for post -smokeless rifles goes up to 30,000 psi.

If it were my rifle I would be more than comfortable shooting 4.5gr of Unique behind a 115gr boolit provided the rifle is in good shape as Mick stated. YMMV.

Ya gotta love those old model 92 32-20's! Mine was built in 1912.

[KirkD]

Hi Kirk .. Are any of your '92's made before then?

Would the steel in a modern barrel offer additional safety margin in the chamber area? I'm expecting to spend a bit of time/money on this thing... but I enjoy the tinkering...

None of the 92's I've owned were made before 1896 but I've owned and shot quite a few Models 1873, 1876 and 1886's that were. The 1873's and '76's have a lot weaker action than the 1892's.

Another thing to remember is that Winchester, itself, was producing smokeless 32-20 ammunition for the Models 1873 and 1892 by 1896, according to a copy of a catalogue I have. Modern factory ammunition is pretty anemic and will be plenty safe in your original 1892. I chronographed Winchester's modern factory 32-20 loads at a little less than 1,200 fps.

Ken Waters' book Pet Loads lists a few dozen smokeless loads for the 32-20 that are safe for the Model 1892 as well as the weaker Model 1873.

New Model 92 steel will be stronger, but unless you are looking for some very hot loads, you will not need that.

[405]

Would the steel in a modern barrel offer additional safety margin in the chamber area? I'm expecting to spend a bit of time/money on this thing... but I enjoy the tinkering...

Short answer- Yes, a modern barrel would add some strength.... to a degree. Still the receiver and receiver ring would be of the older, weaker metal. But generally, the 92 action is a very strong one as others have said.

I have a Colt SAA (1st gen, early smokeless), original Win 73 and original Win 92 all in 32-20. I pay attention to pressures in all older originals no matter the caliber. I do stick to low pressure, low vel cast loads with smokeless.... trying to never exceed blackpowder ballistics.

My best loads in this type of 32-20 are:

for the Colt- 2.2 gr Trailboss/100 gr PB cast.
for the Win 73- 11.5 Rel7/115 Lym GC cast.
for the Win 92- 6 gr 2400/115 Lym GC cast

[Watermelon Wine]

Thank you everybody!

It sounds like I went off a bit half-cocked with this last purchase, I had heard fantastic things about the 1892 action and have just sold a '94 winchester (30-30) that I had for 10-15 years and couldn't fault.

The other ole' plugger I have is a 44 mag that shoots factory loads at 1740fps (Like a rainbow!) So unfortunately, with what I've learned here I won't be trying to push the 2000fps barrier with modern propellants so I can have a real 'Varminter' 32-20!!!

I love the cartridge though and Dad had one as a boy and still has an early lee reloader set for it.

With regards to trailboss in the BIG kegs, fortunately I already have a whole heap that I'm having trouble get rid of in the 44 and 22 K hornet, so it will be good if I can find a load accurate enough to plink with in this new thing...

Because I will eventually want to multi-task it though, I'll probably end up doing as four-fingers originally said and clean it up and try to swap it for a slightly younger model... Hey! that reminds me! My wife's not getting any younger! (Joke!) (...sorry darling... yes darling...)

[Dean D.]

Don't get discouraged, you may just be pleasantly surprised how well that fine old gun shoots. I know mine is a tack driver out to 100 yards even with the light loads. No, it will never shoot as fast and flat as my .220 Swift, but I never expected it to. Any time I want an extremely accurate iron sight rifle that doesn't beat me up in the process I reach for the 32-20. :grin:

[Four Fingers of Death]

Tiny bit off topic, but seeing you mentioned it, what are your trailboss loads in the K Hornet? I have a Martini Cadet in that chambering.

[trooperdan]

I came to the forum today to ask about safe loads for my 1912 model 1892 in .25-20! Most of my doubts have been handled by the replies here. Anyone know what serial number range indicates a "smokeless" rated gun?

I plan to shoot mainly cast boolits from my old girl but I had on hand some Speer 75 grain condoms and loaded 15 with 3.5 grs WW231. Does that sound like a safe load in my turn of the century Winnie? I actually have two of about the same vintage, one has apparently been rebarreled with a Winchester barrel.. but the caliber of .32WCF is crossed out and has .25-20 stamped above! Not sure how a .32 WCF bore became a .25 but a .25 it is!

[Watermelon Wine]

Hi all! Thanks for all the help!

Special thanks to Dean D, 15,000psi gives me a figure I can work with/to.

Four fingers of death,

My k hornet is a martini as well! Pretty close to my favorite gun too!
As for loads, my load book is out at Dad's farm so I won't guess here but I put trail boss under a 40 grain bulk 22mag (dirty-j-word) bullet and reduced the load 'til it was doing about 1100fps and it shot 3/4" at 75 yards, but then I just had a 22 so I might as well use the 22! My pet load is 11.8~11.9 grains of AR2205 under the same projectile which averages 2830fps and groups 3/4" at 100 yards.
I've got some 36 grain barnes varmint grenades coming soon and I'd love to try to touch the magic 3000 barrier! (Might need the 33 grainers...)

Trooper Dan, With regard to action strength, FFOD mentioned that the steel got a bit better around the 1896 mark, you have your date already but I found serial number / year of manufacture information that may be helpful to others at: http://www.savage99.com/winchester1892_dates.htm

Cheers! WMW

[Four Fingers of Death]

I can't rememeber if I was told 1896 or that the turn of the century serial numbers were 96,000. Looks like it is pretty irrelevant for the 25/20 and the 32/20.

[Watermelon Wine]

This is slightly off topic too but I've just gone and bought a Howa 1500 in .243W (heavy/blue) which should fix me for a 'multi-tasker', which takes the 'pressure' off the 32-20 to perform beyond it's capabilities!

How fast can .243 boolits go?

[Four Fingers of Death]

Those Howas are hard to resist at those prices! Top performers as well. I need a 243, I have a 243 mould and a sizing die downstairs! Can't let them go to waste.