C&R license

[JohnH]

Is this really worth getting?

[waksupi]

I've had mine for 4-5 years now, maybe longer.
It's nice to be able to buy the neat milsurps from Shotgun News, at the advertised price. And having them delivered directly to you, with no middleman, or markup. This includes rifles, pistols, and shotguns, some rather exotic items that are on the C&R list.
Better yet, is the discount you get from various suppliers. Just my purchases from Brownell's, more than make up for the cost of the license in six months time.
They are cheap to get, and a pleasure to be able to use.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I'll swear to everything Waksupi said. I would like to add that over nearly six years I have found all the ATF people I have dealt with to be polite, helpful, and non-intrusive. Real help on the law is only a phone call away.

[Herb in Pa]

It's a real benefit for the discounts available from various suppliers. The only downside (?) is that it's way too easy to pick up the phone or hit the various websites for firearms that arrive on your doorstep just like the good old pre '68 days.

[Wayne Smith]

I concur. The discounts alone make it worth it. Of course, that means you're spending more too, most likely. Midway, Graff's, and Brownells all give dealer pricing, and I'm sure there's many more. Being able to buy off the auction sites is also very handy, except for the budget! For me, everything's a project, so it's not only the firearm, but the dies, the brass, the bullet molds, etc. You see, for me the dealer pricing is the best part.

I also concur on the quality of the BATF people. They had to come out to interview me for my ammo manufacturer's license, and were very nice.

[woody1]

Is this really worth getting?
Like they said, YUP!
Regards, Woody

[Shepherd2]

I concur with the previous posters. The savings on my first order to Brownells, after I got my C&R, paid for my license. The downside is that you need to learn self control. It's so easy to pick up the phone and have that milsurp you saw in Shotgun News delivered to your door.

[grumble]

I've had a C&R for several years, and use it quite a bit.

I filled out the first application just before the Bush-Gore election, and held on to the paperwork until it was clear that Bush won the election, then sent it in. I think I'll do the same after my current license expires to make sure I'm not a licensee if a gun-unfriendly administration comes into power.

The law is written such that any FFL holder can be subject to warantless searches, and criminal penalties may apply if errors are found in recordkeeping. So, yeah, a C&R is a great thing to have, but if the BATFE decides to do some heavy-handed enforcement at the political discretion of a new administration, holding the license could easily become a liability.

At $30 for three years, it's an unbeatable deal, so long as the political climate isn't against us. I'm sure that you can imagine as well as I can what an anti gun news media would have to say about us collectors amassing "high powered sniper rifles" and numerous handguns that could be disbursed to the "violent criminal element" without the need for a NICS check.

[Wayne Smith]

Just remember, if you buy a firearm with your C&R it is collectable and not subject to change. If you make any changes such that it cannot be returned to original condition it is no longer C&R eligable. Simply write in your record "No longer C&R eligible" in the area for identifying the person to whom you sell it.

My Chileano 1895 Mauser, completely changed, is so identified in my record.

[Bear4570]

Worth every dime, sorry I did not do it years ago...

[Ken O]

I'm interested in this, how do you apply? They dont require you to record or register your non C&R type firearms do they?

[Rrusse11]

I'm interested in this, how do you apply? They dont require you to record or register your non C&R type firearms do they?

Ken,

http://www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm

You need form 7CR.

Cheers,
R*2

[BLTsandwedge1]

Many thanks R*2.....that was easy to order the form. Now I wonder how the good ol' state of California will enter the picture........

Regards........

[Scrounger]

Many thanks R*2.....that was easy to order the form. Now I wonder how the good ol' state of California will enter the picture........

Regards........

I don't think California recognizes the C&R License; If you don't have the regular 01 FFL (There are 1 or 2 others they OK) AND the California license from DOJ, then you are simply an unlicensed person. Which isn't to say some C&R holders and wholesalers WON'T ship to you, but if the state finds out, you're in deep dodo. By the way, one of the C&R form requirements is that you send a letter to your county sheriff informing him you are applying for the license. It might be a good idea to call him first and discuss the legal issues the state laws bring into play. Good luck.

[BLTsandwedge1]

I don't think California recognizes the C&R License; If you don't have the regular 01 FFL (There are 1 or 2 others they OK) AND the California license from DOJ, then you are simply an unlicensed person. Which isn't to say some C&R holders and wholesalers WON'T ship to you, but if the state finds out, you're in deep dodo. By the way, one of the C&R form requirements is that you send a letter to your county sheriff informing him you are applying for the license. It might be a good idea to call him first and discuss the legal issues the state laws bring into play. Good luck.


Lawdy Lawdy how I love this state! No such thing as personal liberties, $2.60 for a gallon of gas, 1 shooting range within 50 miles. If I had to buy my house again in the same neighborhood there's no way in hell I could do it; I can't add on to my house either- I don't have enough water credits. (the municipality may auction a few water credits- a credit equals a toilet or a sink or a shower- you need 3 credits to add a full bathroom- expected auction price? Twenty-thousand dollars per credit).

Bitchin' over, 5 years and counting.......

[NVcurmudgeon]

FWIW, I had a C&R license in Livermore, CA from 1999 to 2004. I was required to notify the Livermore Chief of Police of my intention. He approved me and was surprised to be asked. While living in CA, I bought two milsurp rifles and two milsurp pistols on my C&R All were delivered to my house. I had to sign for the pistols, but the rifles were left on the porch. When I moved to Nevada, transferring my C&R to new "licensed premises" in this state took only a phone call to ATFE. Again, ATFE has always been helpful, polite and non-intrusive in my experience.

[NVcurmudgeon]

BLTsandwedge, I love THIS state, having enjoyed about as much of CA as I can stand. This weekend there is a big CAS shoot in Fernley, 40 miles from here. It is advertised on the radio, with advertising "paid for by the Lyon County room tax." Also, at Mustang, just east of sparks, there is a class III weapons shoot. The public is encouraged to rent the AK, M-16, Thompson, etc. of their choice and shoot. This event is advertised on the radio also, with particular attention to pointing out that the venue is "a Feinstein-free zone."

Be comforted with the knowledge that when you've had enough, you can sell out for enough to buy a better house in a decent state. My wife is in ladies room Heaven. We have 2 1/2 baths, up from one, with unlimited well water.
We do have to pay the power company to keep our pump running, and they don't accept credits, neither water credits nor Heinlein space credits.

[BLTsandwedge1]

BLTsandwedge, I love THIS state, having enjoyed about as much of CA as I can stand. This weekend there is a big CAS shoot in Fernley, 40 miles from here. It is advertised on the radio, with advertising "paid for by the Lyon County room tax." Also, at Mustang, just east of sparks, there is a class III weapons shoot. The public is encouraged to rent the AK, M-16, Thompson, etc. of their choice and shoot. This event is advertised on the radio also, with particular attention to pointing out that the venue is "a Feinstein-free zone."

Be comforted with the knowledge that when you've had enough, you can sell out for enough to buy a better house in a decent state. My wife is in ladies room Heaven. We have 2 1/2 baths, up from one, with unlimited well water.
We do have to pay the power company to keep our pump running, and they don't accept credits, neither water credits nor Heinlein space credits.

Sure....go ahead and rub it in.... :) My only positive comment is that the 17 mile strip of beach that my resort sits on attracts some of the most "healthy" looking women on the planet........

[C1PNR]

BLTsandwedge1,

Just took a look at my CA C&R "Bound Book" and note I bought two C&R rifles in July, 2004. Delivered to my door by UPS and/or USPS. I left in December and am not aware of any changes in State law as regards C&R rules prior to my leaving.

As we all know, anything is possible with that "crew" we have (pardon me, of the two of us, it's now only YOU who have) in Sacramento. ;-)

That said, I haven't seen anything in "The Firing Line" about any new "anti gun" legislation being passed. I did maintain my membership in the CRPA. Even if I'm gone now, I can still help a little bit.

The only local regulation type problem I can think of just now is the requirement for an "approved by the State" safe for long arms, or a proveably new (within the last 30 days) gun lock for each newly purchased long arm. Oh yeah, the gun lock has to be one "approved" by the State, not just any old gun lock.

Good luck battling your new addiction to old long arms![smilie=l:

[Scrounger]

BLTsandwedge1,

Just took a look at my CA C&R "Bound Book" and note I bought two C&R rifles in July, 2004. Delivered to my door by UPS and/or USPS. I left in December and am not aware of any changes in State law as regards C&R rules prior to my leaving.

As we all know, anything is possible with that "crew" we have (pardon me, of the two of us, it's now only YOU who have) in Sacramento. ;-)

That said, I haven't seen anything in "The Firing Line" about any new "anti gun" legislation being passed. I did maintain my membership in the CRPA. Even if I'm gone now, I can still help a little bit.

The only local regulation type problem I can think of just now is the requirement for an "approved by the State" safe for long arms, or a proveably new (within the last 30 days) gun lock for each newly purchased long arm. Oh yeah, the gun lock has to be one "approved" by the State, not just any old gun lock.

Good luck battling your new addiction to old long arms![smilie=l:

I'm a life member of CRPA also, so I get their newsletter every month. OK, give DOJ a call if you don't believe me. The fact that dealers in other states will ship to you, and UPS delivers them, and even if a sheriff doesn't know about it, that doesn't mean it's legal. I'm not trying to stop you, but we all know of dealers, law enforcement, and even ATF agents that mis-understand the law. And ignorance of the law is not a viable defense if you get caught by DOJ. The only way to be sure is to call them and make sure it's legal. I'll understand if you don't want to. Check the links below:
http://www.centuryarms.com/Century/pages/policies.htm
http://64.82.96.51/cal-ffl.htm
http://calguns.net/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/332609466/m/53110135521/r/21910975521
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/firearm_requirements.html

Please note these 'opinions' are from people like us and have no bearing in law. I would ask DOJ to be sure.

[Scrounger]

Well, maybe I'm wrong... In reading some of the references I sent you, and trying to make sense of the actual laws on the DOJ website, It appears you can receive directly C&R rifles, as long as they are at least 50 years old (this part is a California modification). But you cannot directly receive C&R pistols, they must go through an 01 dealer. So, enjoy.

[waksupi]

The BATF people have been great on the phone, and direct me to the St' Paul office, if the local one can't answer it. Totally inobtrusive on C&R collectors.

[drinks]

BLT;
You should investigate the gulf coast, way more healthy women, way more hunting and fishing and way less anti gun laws.
Don

[kenjuudo]

Dammit guys, all this talk has got me interested. There is just too much common sense on this board!

I found this link, might be of intrest....

http://p223.ezboard.com/fcurioandrelicfirearmsforumfrm23

jim

[grumble]

I hate to nitpick, but isn't the BATFE part of the Dept of Treasury?

[Herb in Pa]

From the ATF website.............

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is a law enforcement agency within the U.S. Department of Justice. Its unique responsibilities include protecting the public and reducing violent crime. ATF enforces the Federal laws and regulations relating to alcohol and tobacco diversion, firearms, explosives, and arson.

[grumble]

Well, sunovagun. I need to pay more attention to the letterhead when I get the ATF letters!

http://www.atf.treas.gov/about/atfhistory.htm

"Effective January 24, 2003, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) was transferred under the Homeland Security bill to the Department of Justice. The law enforcement functions of ATF under the Department of the Treasury were transferred to the Department of Justice. The tax and trade functions of ATF will remain in the Treasury Department with the new Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau.

In addition, the agency's name was changed to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to reflect it new mission in the Department of Justice. "

[BLTsandwedge1]

BLT;
You should investigate the gulf coast, way more healthy women, way more hunting and fishing and way less anti gun laws.
Don


Actually I'm looking at the Carolinas- I work with resorts for a living. There's quite a bit of money to be made in CA- I can do my time here and move on.

Fellas, thanks very much for your help! I'll update you all as this rolls out.......


.....Regards.....

[carpetman]

BLTSandwedge---We are in similar situation---I will work as a last resort.

[BLTsandwedge1]

BLTSandwedge---We are in similar situation---I will work as a last resort.

My work is literally the last resort- headed west that is.......

[wills]

Sure....go ahead and rub it in.... :) My only positive comment is that the 17 mile strip of beach that my resort sits on attracts some of the most "healthy" looking women on the planet........

Sounds like a dog chasin' cars.

[Ken O]

I recieved my C&R today. How do you get the discounts that the prior posts say you get from Midway etc? The info I got today says a packet will be sent later, will there be some adds or info it it? Thanks, Ken

[waksupi]

Ken, first off, do NOT sign the original license. Make copies of it, and sign these in ink. Then send copies to the various vendors. Make sure you send one to Brownells, and Dennis Kroh is a good one to send off to. Just go through Shotgun News, and anyone you think you may do business with in the future, you can send a copy to, and ask them to keep it on file.

[C1PNR]

I'll add to what waksupi said by telling you to sign those photocopies in BLUE ink. Some vendors don't accept black as it "may" be just a photocopy of the original signed license. I suppose it could be that the BATFE Inspectors make that call.

There is a whole raft of information available at: http://p223.ezboard.com/fcurioandrelicfirearmsforumfrm23

I think there is a list of dealers, and even a sample letter to send to the dealers.

BTW, you'll soon need Nomex gloves to handle your credit card(s).[smilie=l:

[Ken O]

Thanks Guys, I made copies and didnt sign anything yet. C1PNR I cant get that link to work. Ken

[Bigscot]

What is the average turn around time for a C&R license? Is it weeks, months or years?

BS

[Scrounger]

What is the average turn around time for a C&R license? Is it weeks, months or years?

BS

Got mine about a year ago. Time from application to receiving the license, exactly 30 days.

[Willbird]

Make sure you send the citizenship cert. WITH it, GG jackson sent mine back 120 days later telling me I forgot the citizenship paper, on which YOU certify that you are in fact a citizen by saying so *sigh*

Bill

[Shepherd2]

I never received the citizenship certification form with my application packet and never saw any mention of it so I filled out and sent back the forms I received. The BATFE is supposed to process your application in 60 days. That may be working days. After about 90 days I called and a helpful lady located my file and told me the citizenship form was missing and she would send me one. They are supposed to send the application back if incomplete but they still had mine. It took about 10 days for me to receive the form. In the meantime I located a copy on my own and sent it in. I had my license within 2 weeks of mailing the form.

From what I understand from some reading posts on other boards the district office that does your background check is usually the cause of the holdup.

[Bigscot]

I don't recall anything about a citizenship form. I have another form and will doulble check to see if it is on it. I just filled out the form. There was 2 parts. One for the BATFE and one to the local "Chief Law Enforcement Official". I sent one to the BATFE with a $30.00 check and the other part to the CLEO. It has only been about week or so since I sent it in. I was talking to a co-worker about this today and was just curious as to how long it normally took. It looks like if don't hear anything after a month or so I might have to make a call to the BATFE. Thanks for the info.

BS

[NVcurmudgeon]

I sent off my renewal (second renewal, I've had the C&R for almost six years.)
Must be one more piece of the Patriot Act, they never had it before.

[Willbird]

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/cnrfaq/index.asp

here, I found this.

2/3/05
Q: I just got a new F7CR packet. The Certification of Compliance forms were still included in the packet. Even though the new F7CR has part of the CofC in it, do I still need to send in the separate CofC form as well?

A: If you have the new form 7CR the certification of compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B) is not necessary. Please disregard the form.

{NOTE: the “new” form 7CR begin asked about is marked at the bottom “revised Nov 2004

[Bigscot]

The extra form I have is the 7CR form revised May 2005. There are 3 pages to be filled out. No citizenship certification form. I hope I got everything and got it right.

BS

[waksupi]

If you have any questions about wheter you have all the proper forms, go to the BATFE site. Call up your local office, and ask them. They may not always have answers about firearms at thier fingertips, but they are fast on the draw when it comes to paperwork. The ones I have talked to here in Montana, and the regional office in Minneapolis/St. Paul were very friendly and helpful.

[C1PNR]

Thanks Guys, I made copies and didnt sign anything yet. C1PNR I cant get that link to work. KenI don't know what to tell you. I just clicked on it and it took me right there.

Do a google search for "Curio and Relics" without the quotes. Hopefully it'll get you there.

[Ricochet]

I don't know what to tell you. I just clicked on it and it took me right there.

Do a google search for "Curio and Relics" without the quotes. Hopefully it'll get you there.Using the quotes makes the search more specific. Otherwise you'll get every page that has each of those words somewhere on it. The ATF term is "curios or relics."

[grumble]

Using the quotes makes the search more specific. Otherwise you'll get every page that has each of those words somewhere on it. The ATF term is "curios or relics."

Oops! The license says, "Collector of Curios and Relics."

[Ricochet]

You're right, they're not consistent with their terminology.

They took the application forms offline, too.

[Bigscot]

I decided to get my C&R license after reading this thread and seeing how easy it was. I sent an email for the forms the last week of July. I received the forms the next Monday, the first week of August. That same week I sent off the forms to the BATFE and the CLEO. Well less than 2 weeks later, I come home today (Monday) and the license was in the mail. How about that for Gubment service. I am impressed. My only question now is...WHAT SHOULD I GET?

BS

[Willbird]

I would get the Gold Plated Lorcin ATF commemoritive.

THAT isn't on the list, but if you get bored sometime read the list, there are lots of ATF commemoritives on there.


Bill

[8mmshooter]

If I were you I wouldn't get a C&R license.....makes the rifle and handgun collecting a bad habit......If I buy one with the license everyone knows that you get a special break from SOG or Century if you buy 2 rifles or sometimes five at a time.....so I don't buy just one so I can save money........really honey that's why I have three of the K-31's and mutiples of other really great rifles.....my little woman knows how I save all that money on the stuff I need to feed these rifles as well.......everyone knows we have to have multiple molds for the same caliber.........really honey I really mean it....8mmshooter

[McLintock]

I dabble a little in collecting Ruger Single Actions, gave up on Winchesters and Colts years ago as too expensive, and recently got a C&R License for the occasional piece I might find that I can afford, particularly out of state. Had a FFL for almost 30 years but gave it up in '98 for a lot of reasons. Just after I got the C&R early this year, I was in Albuquerque, New Mexico and saw two collectable Ruger Single Sixes at prices I could afford. One was a flatgate which is obtainable under C&R guidelines, and the other was just 2 years newer, but I had to have it imported. Cost me about $45 more just for the shipping and FFL fee I had to pay at home; saved more than the cost of the license fee right there on the first purchase. Comes in handy at times.
McLintock