Lyman 358477

[Ben]

My copy of the 358477 that I sold recently had an extremely narrow and shallow crimp ring.

If you didn't have your 38 / 357 cases all cut perfectly to the same length ( and few of us do ), there were problems with having a decent and consistent crimp.

I have many other 38 / 357 molds that offer a wider and deeper front crimp groove which I prefer.

Did a have a " fluke ", or are all 477's like this one that I had.

Ben

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/358477%20FS/003.jpg

Here is the 446', look at the difference in the crimp ring offered on this one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/357446/PICT0005.jpg

[357 Voodoo]

Ben I have 3 of the 358477 and all have a bigger crimp ring than what you have pictured. I have an old Ideal single a newer Lyman single and a Lyman double. Each one is almost exactly the same. One of these days I'm gonna send one of my singles to Buckshot for a hollow point.

[Ben]

That mold always gave me " fits " when it came to crimping into that
narrow , shallow, crimp ring.

[higgins]

I have a 358477 single cavity that was probably made in the 60s that looks to have a crimp groove as shallow as yours. I don't have any bullets on hand cast from it to look at, but my newer 477 double cavity made in the 90s has a larger crimp groove than the older one. When I first got my DC mould I started casting with both molds in rotation looking to boost production. Only when I was finished and started looking through the bullet pile for culls did I realize the design had changed in the 30 or so year interim between when the two were made.

[9.3X62AL]

My present Lyman #358477 (late 70s) has a larger crimp groove than Ben's photo shows, but nowhere near as large as his #358446.

[Larry Gibson]

Not sure what ben means by;

If you didn't have your 38 / 357 cases all cut perfectly to the same length ( and few of us do ), there were problems with having a decent and consistent crimp.


It's the OAL of the case that governs the consistency of the crimp. However if he means scraping lead when crimping because the crimp groove is small then he's probably right IF you crimp/seat in one operation. Many of us crimp/seat in seperate operations and have no trouble with the smaller crimp groove in the 358477 or the Lee TL bullets. That is even with varied OALs, within reason of course.:drinks:

I've been using the 358477 and Lee TL 158s for many years loading them on a Dillon SDB which crimps seperately and have no problems. I recently used my RCBS dies on the single stage Pacific press to load some .38s with 358477 for the 2400 powder test. I simply used R_P cases, instead of mixed head stamps, and had no problems seating and crimping in one operation. However, as Ben mentions that doesn't always give good results with mixed lots of cases that are not trimed (I abhor triming pistol cases:( ) Same with Lee's TL bullets if you crimp in one of the grooves which I usually do (the top or 2nd one).

Larry Gibson

[Ben]

Larry,

How many people have 38 spec. cases that are ALL the same length ? A lot of shooters pick up 38 Spec. brass where ever they can. Few trim each case to the same exact length before they attempt to load it.

My point was ---- If you didn't take the time to trim all the brass, it was difficult to crimp ( roll crimp ) the end of the case mouth into the narrow, shallow crimp ring of my particular bullet .

I load 1,000 38 specials at a time, if a mold ( because of its design ) forces me to trim all 1,000 pieces of brass, maybe I don't need that mold.

Larry.....You say........" I abhor triming pistol cases ."

I'm with you on that statement.

[theperfessor]

IMHO most if not all Lee designs have too small crimp grooves.

My 4 cavity 358477 (year of make not known) has a much larger crimp groove than yours. Lyman sure has taken some shape/size liberties with their designs over the years haven't they?

[Ben]

theperfessor

Lyman sure has taken some shape/size liberties with their designs over the years haven't they?

Boy haven't they. You open a Lyman box, you never know what you're about to see ? ? ?

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,

How many people have 38 spec. cases that are ALL the same length ? A lot of shooters pick up 38 Spec. brass where ever they can. Few trim each case to the same exact length before they attempt to load it.

My point was ---- If you didn't take the time to trim all the brass, it was difficult to crimp ( roll crimp ) the end of the case mouth into the narrow, shallow crimp ring of my particular bullet .

I load 1,000 38 specials at a time, if a mold ( because of its design ) forces me to trim all 1,000 pieces of brass, maybe I don't need that mold.

You say........" I abhor triming pistol cases ."

I'm with you on that statement.

Ben

Didn't think I was disagreeing with you.....I thought I reitterated your point.

My point was/is; If you crimp the case in a 4th operation or use a single lot of cases if crimp/seating in one operation then you shouldn't have difficulties with crimping in a 358477 or Lee TL bullet. I've thousands of .38 specials of all sorts of makes also and I do not trim them to the same length. I load those thousands of different cases on a Dillon SDB using a 358477 with a narreow crimp groove such as yours without any problems whatso ever. I also load Lee's 158 TL SWC without crimping problems with multiple length cases. Stage 4 of the SDB roll crimps BTW.

When you and I and whoever else use such cases of various lengths (within reason as mentioned) we must understand that the crimp, especially a roll crimp, is not "consistent" given the same crimping die setting regardles of whether we crimp when seating or not.

The "466" has a larger crimp groove as does a 358429 and several other designs. I've no problem with them being used as they are all good cast bullets. But then so is the 358477. The larger crimp grooves of such are certainly more forgiving if seating/crimping in one operation and would probably serve better if ones cases were really of larger different lengths. Apparently my assorted 38 SPL cases (gathered over 40 years) are not of significant different length as I do not trim and I have no problems roll crimping in the 359477 crimp groove......maybe I'm just lucky, eh?

:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[Bret4207]

Ben, I have my 4 cav 477 right here in front of me and if anything, mine looks even a trifle smaller than yours! I have to say I never noticed it before and it's never really been a problem crimping. But if I ever get that progressive in the box set up, it might be an issue.'

You could always get a cannulare (sp) tool and add a step to the process!

[Ben]

Bret4207 :

You could always get a cannulare (sp) tool and add a step to the process!

Probably not for me, I sold that mold. Just seemed to be too much trouble for me.

Ben

[MtGun44]

I have three 358477 molds and they all have a pretty small crimp groove, IIRC. Never had any
issues. Far from home now so can't actually look at my molds to compare, what I said is
from memory.

Bill