9mm cases to .308 jackets

[Mountain Prepper]

As Brian mentioned before you must soften this brass, I heated them to orange with a torch and then started the process.

Not wanting to wait for a set of dies, I ordered some Lee sizing dies in .356-.323-308 and had the local guy make a few punches just for kicks and grins.

The un-mangled case a 9mm sized and primer punched out - I thought that removing the primer may possibly make this easier - it does not make anything easier.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308jacket_9case.jpg

The next photo is down to .356

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308jacket_356_midstep.jpg

.323

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308jacket_323_midstep.jpg

Now .308

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308_jacket_from_9.jpg

It is funny how the stamping on the case head shrinks and just gets smaller...

I found out that .308 is not small enough for my die set, so I just happened to have another trim die that is .305 and that works, I called Lee and they will make a sizing die in .305 if you wish... about twice the regular price at 30-35 bucks plus shipping.

After each sizing the cases get hard again - if you want to work them with out breaking your press you will have to soften them each step...

Then the proof of concept - the .308 bullets.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308_from_9_LTHPCTFB8S.jpg

The above is 8s flat base HP lead tip almost closed, I used a lead tipper die.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308_from_9_LTHPFB8S.jpg

The above is 8s flat base HP lead tip open.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308_from_9_LTHPFB5S.jpg

5s profile with lead tip.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308_from_9_HPFB5S.jpg

5s with the lead up to the top of the jacket edge.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308_from_9_-base.jpg

The base of the formed bullets - on some a bit of lead squirted out the small hole.

[Mountain Prepper]

A jacket trimmed on the lathe...

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/305_from_9_trimmed.jpg

[NoZombies]

Nice work, those look good!

I look forward to hearing how they shoot

[BT Sniper]

What weights did you come out at? 150ish? 160 grains max?

Looks good

BT

[Utah Shooter]

Nice work, those look good!

I look forward to hearing how they shoot

Yeah I am curious as well. You actually got the rim out of it too? That is cool.

[LeadHound]

Ok so you used a standard bullet sizer die to form the case?

I take it they go primer end first? So you need longer punch?

So then you just need the point forming die to complete the bullet?

Interesting

[Mountain Prepper]

Ok so you used a standard bullet sizer die to form the case?


Yes, three dies actually, the brass hardens up after just one pass into the next smaller die.


I take it they go primer end first? So you need longer punch?

Yes, much longer, I guess the length depends on your press...


So then you just need the point forming die to complete the bullet?

I am not sure, I guess that depends on if a .308 dia. jacket would fit into the point forming die, and if the lead would form.

In this case I used a hollow point punch in the core seating die.


Interesting

Yep, I think we are on to something...

I just wish that it did not require re-softining every die...

It is a work out let me tell you... I formed about 150 ready to test...

I am working on turning the base off in the lathe and then size down, I hope that proves much better, so far I have busted off the ends several times.

[Mountain Prepper]

Yeah I am curious as well. You actually got the rim out of it too? That is cool.

Just the one so far, just to see if I could.

[Mountain Prepper]

What weights did you come out at? 150ish? 160 grains max?

Looks good

BT

164.6 heaviest of the batch (I put it on the digital scale).

148.4 for the even tip hollow point, and 159.7 for the closed lead tip.

Without cutting for length, looks to work best at 150 (ish) to 165 (ish) with a lead tip.

I want to figure out how to lathe off the rim and load for both rim and no rim jackets.

More to come, I will not be able to shoot them until after next week, I got a new Savage rifle that is striking light and we are working on it...

[LeadHound]

So the "point" no the bullets pictured above was done with a core setting die and a hollow point puch....

I will admit things are done differantly now then the old school lil of this and that way I saw Uncle Bill do it. Of course most of what he made was half jacket cup + lead + pressure = done
even his 22lr jackets bacically 2 steps derim a funky pliers looking thing slid in core and run thru pointer die now there 4 or 5 dies.

I would thing your idea of sizeing down cases could open up many options for jackets in all sizes. Now I need to look at just options to get the point I want.

I thank you for this Idea and all the fun it will be to convince the wife it is needed...lol

[Mountain Prepper]

So the "point" no the bullets pictured above was done with a core setting die and a hollow point puch....

I will admit things are done differantly now then the old school lil of this and that way I saw Uncle Bill do it. Of course most of what he made was half jacket cup + lead + pressure = done
even his 22lr jackets bacically 2 steps derim a funky pliers looking thing slid in core and run thru pointer die now there 4 or 5 dies.

It has changed, and there were additions by Ted Smith, the Corbin brothers, CH4D, Hearters, and a host of others, the multi-die sets are the Ted Smith/Corbin branch and the Core seat and point form two die sets are now from CH4D and our own BT Sniper.


I would thing your idea of sizeing down cases could open up many options for jackets in all sizes. Now I need to look at just options to get the point I want.

The idea is not mine, I am just adding to what others here have done and some of what Corbin has in his books - I would bet that this started a long time ago.


I thank you for this Idea and all the fun it will be to convince the wife it is needed...lol


In my house that would read: "FAT CHANCE fat boy” - good luck.

[Mountain Prepper]

Additional questions would be:

Is there a way to make a die that could take it down to size (about .305 to .306) in one step?

Is there a way to make this work without all of the heat treatments to soften the brass?

Is it necessary or desirable to remove the rim to get rid of the excessive brass at the tail?

[MIBULLETS]

I think removing the rim will help make the sizing a whole lot easier, but having that thick base is a plus when it comes to a hunting bullet, especially if it is bonded.

Nice work!

[nicholst55]

Now that looks doable, without breaking the bank. A small lathe to remove the case head might prove very useful, though I'm not certain it would be absolutely necessary.

[Mountain Prepper]

News, good, bad or ugly...

I worked out our problems with the new rifle and now it is working without problems.

So with the new rifle and loads I have worked up for a similar .308 with swaged bullets using Corbin jackets (got them in the 90’s and they are J4 jackets).

Here is the 171 grain with Varget powder (load way under maximum) military cases magnum primer and using lee factory crimp.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308_171gr_savage.jpg

This actually measures .518 center to center, this load was not intended for this rifle and I have not had the chance to do anything else yet.

Now the larger target with the 163 grain lead tip using the 9mm cases, the green circle is the aim point and the blue are the three rounds. Load is the same Varget load as the above, as a starting point.

This gets ugly...


:shock:


:shock:


:shock:


http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308_163gr_9jacket.jpg

I think the bases not expanding and not square is the problem, later I shot a 155 batch of factory bullets and the groups were similar to the 171, clearly the problem is with the brass bullets and I guess it is the base of the bullet, I have to bring it down to fit into the dies. When I get back next week I will start loading with some jackets with lathe squared bases.

[BT Sniper]

Well it can only get better. Not to worry, I'm sure we will get the 9mm-308s shooting good soon. I'll have time by the end of the year to test some.

Thanks for posting results, look foward to updates.

BT

[nicholst55]

At least they appear to have hit the target point-on, rather than sideways...

[Mountain Prepper]

At least they appear to have hit the target point-on, rather than sideways...

They are flying nose forward, I think they are taking a wobble on exit from gas jets because of the tail and that I think that if we put a square edge and eliminate inconsistencies this should tighten up quite a bit.

I have to work on a project away from home this week so I will not be able to do any more until I get back. Working sure puts a crimp on all the fun... :-(

[BT Sniper]

I'm sure you will be able to easily cut that group size in half or better. Heck go for under 1 MOA. Might seem like a stretch with the initial results but I have been suprised more then once shooting brass bullets. I have had big changes in group size from a %5 (or less) change in powder charge. They defentaly seemed to have a sweet spot, atlesast for the 176 grain 308s I ahve shoot our of my 300WinMags.

Keep at it and good shooting. I hope to have some results to post of my own soon with these bullets.

BT

[Mountain Prepper]

Well it can only get better. Not to worry, I'm sure we will get the 9mm-308s shooting good soon. I'll have time by the end of the year to test some.

Thanks for posting results, look foward to updates.

BT

I have a five gallon bucket of 9mm brass to work with, I can mangle up as much as needed.

There are answers - I agree, just will take some work.

Now that 5.7 stuff - now that seems like less problems.

[Mountain Prepper]

I'm sure you will be able to easily cut that group size in half or better. Heck go for under 1 MOA. Might seem like a stretch with the initial results but I have been suprised more then once shooting brass bullets. I have had big changes in group size from a %5 (or less) change in powder charge. They defentaly seemed to have a sweet spot, atlesast for the 176 grain 308s I ahve shoot our of my 300WinMags.

Keep at it and good shooting. I hope to have some results to post of my own soon with these bullets.

BT

I agree there is potential, I do not see why .5 moa is out of the range of reality, just some work, just working loads up takes time.

Oh and yes that was 100 yards from the bench.

[BT Sniper]

Yep the 5.7 is easy compaired to using 9mm. Makes great 170-180 grain bullets without triming the case and have proven accurate atleast for me. Challenge is to find some cheap.

I must say I like the look of the potential the 308-9mm bullet has with the thick base, thicker case walls, etc. The 5.7 expandes very easily at 300 WM FPS, possibly a bit much, maybe at the 308 velosities it would be ideal?

BT

[Wayne Smith]

Speaking as a complete and tota novice at this, why stop at .30"? .284, .270. .265, .257 should all be possible, no? Given all the annealing I'd do them in batches, but it should be possible I would think.

[BT Sniper]

I've taken the 5.7x28 down to .250. Taking a 9mm piece of brass smaller then 30 cal????? well eventually you will be trying to compress a rather thick piece of brass at the base of that. Not saying it can't be done but........ all up to those who wish to give it a try.

BT

[Mountain Prepper]

Speaking as a complete and tota novice at this, why stop at .30"? .284, .270. .265, .257 should all be possible, no? Given all the annealing I'd do them in batches, but it should be possible I would think.

BT is correct the inside of the base on the 9mm starts to get thick, it is actually a bit of a problem with standard cores I use for .308.

Would it work, I think yes, very well, but you would have to adjust for the changes.

I was thinking when making them that 9mm would make a great jacket for 8mm (7.92).

I wonder if a die could be produced that would square off the base.

[7of7]

Dave Corbin gave me an instruction sheet on this very same subject. His sets he uses a boat tail typ punch to get the base to a smaller diameter, then uses the draw dies to draw the case down to the 30 cal range.. He did say that it wouldn't work well with the manual press, but the hydro press would have no problem at all doing it..
I figure 32 cal would work well for this, but would be more for something like a 3/4 jacket..
I love 25acp's... they work without any additional work.. just anneal, flare the mouth a bit, and swage away.. I do a seperate core seating.... The work best for 110 grain bullets for my 30 carbine.. at least that is what is planned.. I have made a few, but haven't gotten to the range..

[R.Ph. 380]

I wonder, would t be possible to use an end mill, like the WFT trimmer, to just shave the brass off that comprises the rim of the 9 mm. Then you would be almost exactly reproducing what we are doing with the 22lr. Might be possible to get to .308 in one pass, or at most 2, that way.

Bill

[mroliver77]

I wonder, would t be possible to use an end mill, like the WFT trimmer, to just shave the brass off that comprises the rim of the 9 mm. Then you would be almost exactly reproducing what we are doing with the 22lr. Might be possible to get to .308 in one pass, or at most 2, that way.

Bill

I did some like that in my lathe. End mill in tail stock. It cut like butter.

[Cane_man]

^^^ i have done the same, a 4 fluted end mill takes it off alright but it took a little work with my little Chicom lathe...

[torker]

Here"s how I did mine. It worked quite well once I figured out on how to keep the chatter away. Thanks to Reload who is a member here.8735187352

Here I was trimming off 40 S&W to make into 44 cal.

[Cane_man]

nice solution torker, i like that... i may have to get a block of AL and try that...

could it be done with a drill press?

[Cane_man]

Speaking as a complete and tota novice at this, why stop at .30"? .284, .270. .265, .257 should all be possible, no? Given all the annealing I'd do them in batches, but it should be possible I would think.

it can be done, i took the 9mm down to 0.280 for 7mm here in this thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?210129-Making-30-Cal-Dies&p=2449582&viewfull=1#post2449582

[dkmulford]

Here"s how I did mine. It worked quite well once I figured out on how to keep the chatter away. Thanks to Reload who is a member here.8735187352

Nice setup.

[torker]

Nice setup.

Since this pic was taken and some advice, I learned that sizing and decapping the brass first made cutting easier. I've added a coolant system. At first the cutter would enter the brass without any issue, until the flute would hit the steel in the primer and would disrupt the cut. There's where the chatter began. 1/2 endmill DOC .50 RPM 400 IPM 6 cuts like butter on my machine.
I do not use the vise for this set up. I clamp directly to the table for more rigidity.