Boolit sticks in seater die & GC sticks in case

[Jal5]

Occasionally reloading the 270 Win using my boolits I will get one of the boolits stuck in the seater die and it pulls out of the case. Now the case is primed, loaded but the GC is stuck in there as well blocking removal of the powder. Anyone else have this problem and what did you do to correct it? May only happen once in loading 50 cases but it is a nuisance. I think the die gets crud in it from the lube which causes the boolit to stick.

Joe

[obssd1958]

Hi Joe!
I recently had to pull a bunch of boolits from someone else's reloads (270 Win, no less!). They were all gas checked , and every one of those gas checks stuck in the case! I pushed them through, dumped the powder, then grabbed them with a pair of tweezers and pulled them out. Kind of a pain in the keister, but it worked!

Hope this helps, and good luck!

Don

[bruce drake]

Yep, sounds like a lubed up seating die to me. take it apart and scrub it out and that die will work ok again until you gum it up. Recommendation is to do an inspection of the seating die every couple of hundred loaded bullets. Gummed up dies will also change your OAL as well.
Don hit it on the head on how to remover gaschecks from the necks of bullets after pulling the lead out. Tweezer or fine needle noses (I use the needlenose pliers) will clear the case's neck.

Bruce

[onondaga]

You can clean a lube clogged seating die with spraying vast amounts of WD40 and a little brushing, but your gas check problem may be altogether unrelated to the seating die.

Cast Boolits are sized about +.002" over bore groove diameter and are usually too big for standard neck expander bells to do the job for cast boolits. You should expect cocking, jamming, tipping and pulling off of gas checks when your necks are too small for cast boolits and gas checks. This is normal with an incorrect setup giving you undersize case necks and/or poor/no flairing of case mouths.

Options to correct this are collet neck sizing and back bumping the die setting to allow a larger neck size to accommodate your cast boolit . You can also use a Lyman "M" die to expand and flair neck and case mouth in one operation after sizing with a regular FL sizing die or a after a neck sizing die that was left adjusted to the jacketed bullet sizing setting.

The sizing discrepancy with the wrong type or incorrectly adjusted sizing die will lead to the problem you describe with cast boolits. You could size your boolits smaller too but then they will shoot all over the place.

Additionally if your case necks are that small it is likely that the neck is swaging the size of your boolits down and creates accuracy problems associated with undersize boolits--examples: fliers from gas jet cut boolits, tumbling in the flight undersize boolits, leading of the bore.

If you have problem like that or want prevent them, get your duckies in a row!




Gary

[canyon-ghost]

I get the cheap Rem Oil from Walmart, spay the inside of the die full, then clean it out with Q-tips. If you clean it say, every 25 rounds, you make it through the loading session.

The Q-tips let me unscrew the die and just clean it out without changing any settings.

[Jal5]

Gary
I am sizing the boolits to .280 and the bore is .278
The cases are expanded with the Lee Universal Expander die.
No bore leading, tumbling, etc. with these.
When I took the time over the weekend to really keep the seater die clean the problem went away. Must have been gummed up pretty good.

Joe

[onondaga]

Glad you worked that out! Now lets hope your gas checks aren't pulling off when you fire. Sometimes case mouth flair is sufficient and sometimes not. Your boolits are nicely sized.

My .308 Sako separated checks upon firing till I started using a collet neck size die back bumped for a larger neck ID. Unfortunately it spit several gas checks at my chronograph before I switched dies. The damage to the chrono was aesthetic and it functions fine but it really looks sad!

Gary

[7of7]

I use hornady dies, I remove the retainer, and the seater drops out of the die housing.. otherwise, if it gets really gummed up, it will pull the seater out of the housing..
I really like the hornady dies.. I get less finger pinches with them...

[swheeler]

Glad you worked that out! Now lets hope your gas checks aren't pulling off when you fire. Sometimes case mouth flair is sufficient and sometimes not. Your boolits are nicely sized.

My .308 Sako separated checks upon firing till I started using a collet neck size die back bumped for a larger neck ID. Unfortunately it spit several gas checks at my chronograph before I switched dies. The damage to the chrono was aesthetic and it functions fine but it really looks sad!

Gary

I don't understand how this could happen with 20, 30 or 40,000 psi pushing the gas check onto the base of the bullet as it exits the case neck upon firing.

[onondaga]

swheeler: "I don't understand how this could happen with 20, 30 or 40,000 psi pushing the gas check onto the base of the bullet as it exits the case neck upon firing. "

The boolit exits the case neck at very much lower pressures before the pressure builds up with many powders. H4895 is like that and has the soft start with pressure that is a benefit for cast boolit shooting.

I hope you don't want pictures! I finally got graphics, printed a new label and glued it to the front panel of my Chronograph so it looks better now. It was battered from gas checks.

A larger size neck inside diameter completely resolved the problem. I used a backed off setting of my Lee collet neck sizing die. Later I changed to a shortened .303 Brit mandrel for the same die and that has worked fine also with my oversize .311" boolits in my .308 Win. Sako rifle.

The old setup just pinched the checks off the boolits before they were up to pressure and speed. I guess the checks just followed the boolits down the barrel. What ever they did, the checks sure hit my chronograph, and the problem went away with a change to a larger Neck Inside diameter..


Gary

[swheeler]

swheeler: "I don't understand how this could happen with 20, 30 or 40,000 psi pushing the gas check onto the base of the bullet as it exits the case neck upon firing. "

The boolit exits the case neck at very much lower pressures before the pressure builds up with many powders. H4895 is like that and has the soft start with pressure that is a benefit for cast boolit shooting.

I hope you don't want pictures! I finally got graphics, printed a new label and glued it to the front panel of my Chronograph so it looks better now. It was battered from gas checks.

A larger size neck inside diameter completely resolved the problem. I used a backed off setting of my Lee collet neck sizing die. Later I changed to a shortened .303 Brit mandrel for the same die and that has worked fine also with my oversize .311" boolits in my .308 Win. Sako rifle.

The old setup just pinched the checks off the boolits before they were up to pressure and speed. I guess the checks just followed the boolits down the barrel. What ever they did, the checks sure hit my chronograph, and the problem went away with a change to a larger Neck Inside diameter..


Gary

I don't believe with 1000 psi applied against the gas check you can have enough case neck tension to pull the gas check off. Now I know gas checks can and do come off at and after muzzle exit, but believe that is from a gas check that did not fit the bullet shank to start with, or a non crimping type. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle, pressure from behind is relieved and a loose check can be spun off. I have read that there is concern of loosing a gas check when the base of the bullet/gas check is seated below the neck/shoulder junction, maybe that was your problem. I just don't believe that there can be enough neck tension to "pull" a gas check of the base of a bullet when they are both being pushed to same velocity from behind/the gas check is where the pressure is being applied.

[onondaga]

It could be they came off at the muzzle, I don't know. They sure hit the Chrono! The boolits are a flat nose GC 150 gr from a honed oversize mold and sized .311" A FL size die left me with small necks and boolits bulged the necks a lot and checks were flung upon firing. Neck sizing with normal directions was the same with bulging necks and flinging checks. The backed off collet neck sizing die and later the larger mandrel both have worked to eliminate bulged necks and check flinging.

The checks are standard Hornady .30 Cal , They fit tight and crimp solid on my boolits.

It has been my opinion that the tight fit on the checks in the case neck set up some kind of problem that a larger neck size took care of. It could be that gas jetted around the bullet/check and pushed the boolit into chamber throat where the checks were pulled off by the rifling

The problem resolved with the die change and the Sako has always been my most accurate 30 Cal...even when the gas checks were flying off and hitting the chronograph..

My boolits are sized .0036" over groove diameter for this early 60's vintage model L57 Sako Sporter Rifle. I only got a chrono about 20 years ago, it could have been spitting checks for a lot of years. I have used a wide variety of cast boolits in that rifle for a lot of years.

The whole exercise was to try larger boolits and squeeze more accuracy out of an already good shooting rifle. The good news is that it did work once I worked the die modification out!

Gary

Gary

[swheeler]

It could be they came off at the muzzle, I don't know. They sure hit the Chrono! The boolits are a flat nose GC 150 gr from a honed oversize mold and sized .311" A FL size die left me with small necks and boolits bulged the necks a lot and checks were flung upon firing. Neck sizing with normal directions was the same with bulging necks and flinging checks. The backed off collet neck sizing die and later the larger mandrel both have worked to eliminate bulged necks and check flinging.

The checks are standard Hornady .30 Cal , They fit tight and crimp solid on my boolits.

It has been my opinion that the tight fit on the checks in the case neck set up some kind of problem that a larger neck size took care of. It could be that gas jetted around the bullet/check and pushed the boolit into chamber throat where the checks were pulled off by the rifling

The problem resolved with the die change and the Sako has always been my most accurate 30 Cal...even when the gas checks were flying off and hitting the chronograph..

My boolits are sized .0036" over groove diameter for this early 60's vintage model L57 Sako Sporter Rifle. I only got a chrono about 20 years ago, it could have been spitting checks for a lot of years. I have used a wide variety of cast boolits in that rifle for a lot of years.

The whole exercise was to try larger boolits and squeeze more accuracy out of an already good shooting rifle. The good news is that it did work once I worked the die modification out!

Gary

Gary

Who knows Gary. I can't see inside the chamber on firing, but it doesn't take much pressure to expand the neck on a casing.

[Jal5]

An interesting discussion on the GC coming off at firing. How would one know that it is happening without of course seeing the marks on the chrono? That could be an expensive way to test the theory.

Joe

[onondaga]

The gas checks that flew off just left little smack marks slightly denting the aluminum of my chrono.

Gas checks coming off is not something new and has been discussed on the board here before. There is no consensus. I think most would agree it is annoying if you know it is happening. I have seen no conclusive report that checks flying off subtracts any accuracy. The gas check's job is done at the muzzle is one interesting argument I have read.

Hornady and Lyman argued back and forth about that for years. Now they are all made at the same plant and the Hornady checks are cheaper. How that reflects on an answer is beyond me. They are just gas checks. They let me have a bit more velocity and help accuracy....That is why I use them. I never get leading anyway, I don't use them for that.

Gary

[Jal5]

Thanks Gary I always appreciate your reasoned answers.
My daughter and family live in Rochester I believe that is near you?
Joe

[onondaga]

Rochester is about an hour east of me and they get more snow!

Gary

[Jal5]

They sure do get the snow! I thought I recognized your town as I pass by on my way to Rochester. I will be up there sometime during the holidays maybe, but definitely in Feb. for my grandson's 1st birthday.
Joe