smelting / casting

[quiknot]

i undersatnd the reasoning for smelting outside...the fumes and odor from fluxing...but my question is, once smelting is completed and ingots are made....is it ok to cast indoors where it might be alittle warmer in this cold state of Wisconsin?...is the fumes ordor bad for the "loved one " to endure?

[carpetman]

quiknot--I suspect most all of us cast indoors. Yes,there is some smoke while casting,but not nearly as much as the smoke from smelting. While casting if you are using a flux that ignites(most do)once ignited it will only put out the smoke of maybe a candle. This is not something you want to do in your living room for example--most of us do use the garage,basement or some such. In my books,smelting is strictly an outdoor deal.

[Dale53]

To keep the record straight, I am now casting in my utility barn (heated and cooled with a dedicated casting area. However, I cast bullets inside my house for many years. You DO need ventilation. A small window fan set on "low" will give you adequate ventilation.

The ideal set-up in the basement is to get a discarded range vent hood and vent to the chimney (if practical) or through an outside window. You can easily replace one pane of glass with a piece of aluminum with a hole in it for the vent pipe to exit outdoors. The hood catches the smoke from fluxing and all harmful vapors are drawn away from the user.

You can contact local remodeling contractors. They will often sell you a used hood for a nominal sum or even give you one as they normally have to haul the old ones to the local dump.

Another way that works quite well is to run a flexible clothes dryer vent pipe directly from the pot (you can fasten it horizontially to the pot with one of the top screws [RCBS POT] ) to a canister (homemade from a 2 lb coffee can with fan inside) then have the exhaust pipe exit the house through a window or a hole through the house. The inline fan provides quite enough flow to pull the smoke and fumes directly from the pot to outside.

In fact, I know a commercial bullet caster that used this method (a flex pipe) from each of his automatic casting machines.

When I had my utility barn built, I had the carpenter build in a fabricated overhead hood that covers the casting area. The "fan" is a discarded furnace blower driven by a 1/3 horse motor. This is overkill and frankly overwhelms the air conditioner. This spring I will add a flex pipe with inline fan to my pot to reduce the airflow but still get the job done.

I do all of my smelting outside on the driveway. Wheelweights can be QUITE dirty, smelly, and smoky. You do NOT want to smelt indoors. Plus the fumes from the turkey cooker are toxic and best done out of doors.

THE NRA Casting Handbook (alas, now out of print) has a picture of E.H. Harris with a bale rigged up to his electric pot that allowed him to carry outdoors for fluxing. I am sure that it worked but I prefer a positive vented exhaust system rather than carrying a pot full of molten lead through the house (as clumsy as I can be this conjures of all sorts of bad pictures:confused:).

I hope that these random thoughts have been of help.

Dale53

[truckjohn]

Based on our lead safety training at work...

NO. Try not to do it in the house.

Problems in the house:
1. Soft floors suck up lead dust and hold it forever
2. People eat all over the house
3. Ventilation typically blows dust all over the house.
4. Ventilation not really setup to pull out smoke.
5. Kids and pets don't watch what goes in the mouth.

But.... since I know I am going to do it anyway...... Honestly, running up my own blood lead is not going to kill me.... but I certainly don't want to do it to my wife or kids -- as Kids are most at risk to the effects of lead.

RULE #1. DO NOT DO IT IN THE KITCHEN. Your family and friends prepare food and eat in the kitchen. The hot dust floats up, then settles back down onto your food, flat surfaces, and any open containers.

RULE #2. Cleanliness is next to Godliness. Studies at work show Lead contact is 95% through eating it. Breathing it is far less. You say "But I don't eat lead"....
think Lead Oxide dust.... very fine, like talc. it settles down over everything.
A. Wash your hands and face before you smoke, dip, drink, or eat a snack/meal.
B. Wash your hands and face before you leave the casting area.
C. Wear gloves so you don't chew your fingernails, pick your nose, etc.
D. Wash your casting clothes separate from your other laundry. Keep them separate in a plastic garbage bag until you are ready to wash them.

Good Idea #3. Do it somewhere with a hard floor -- Lead and lead oxide dust is HEAVY. It hits the floor quickly. Hard floors make it easy to clean up. If you have carpet -- it will be in the carpet forever.... and your shoes will track it all over the house forever. Leave your casting shoes in your casting area -- like the garage.

Good Idea #4. Buy a cheap Shop Vac that takes bags and buy the $25.00 HEPA filter. Don't use it for anything else but lead/shop clean up. DON'T USE THE HOUSE VACUUM...... it will blow Lead dust all over the house every time it is used. Vacuum off your clothes before you go back to your living areas. (honestly, sounds crazy, it actually helps quite a bit)

Good Idea #5. Make some "Floor Sweeping Compound" out of a pail of sawdust and enough kerosene or used motor oil to make it a wee bit clumpy (NOT WET.) The "Floor Sweep" sticks to the lead dust, and keeps it from coming back up off the floor. Sweep it up and use it as "Flux" for wheel weight smelting when you are done with it.

Good Idea #6. Make sure you have good ventilation. A 2nd hand kitchen hood that sucks fumes and dust out is definately a good idea.

Good Idea #7. Have a place you can wash up before you go back into the house. Soap and water are your friends when it comes to dealing with lead. De-Lead Soap is your better friend for dealing with lead.

Good Idea #8. Make sure the kids and spouse wash up too before they go back in the house.

Thanks

John

[cbrick]

Excerpt from the Article, Safe Handling of Lead, by Glen E. Fryxell

As a Ph.D. chemist involved in the environmental chemistry of heavy metals and heavy metal toxicology, perhaps I can add a few helpful comments here. First off, you are right to be concerned about your children. Lead is considerably more dangerous to kids than it is to adults. A healthy 200 lb man can carry a lead burden (with no symptoms) that would cause severe mental retardation in a 5-year old. This is because one of the main effects that lead has is on the developmental biochemistry of the brain and spine. Once you've grown up, lead can't enter that particular pathway anymore. There are still other toxicity mechanisms to be concerned about, but the neurological development of children is easily the most serious.

The entire article:

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellSafeHandlingLead.htm

Rick

[MT Gianni]

You also need to know about disclosure when you go to sell the house. As anal as OSHA is, when lead levels get to a certain point you may have to disclose to any potential buyer the fact that lead was melted in the house and agree to any clean up cost before the sale. All my smelting is done outside and all casting in a garage or shop that is unattached. Gianni.

[454PB]

I cast indoors, and I smoke a pipe. I wouldn't do either one around kids.

[wildkatt]

A friend has been casting for about 40 years without venting. Now at 89 he has
neuropathy in his feet and lower legs. Of course, he has always smoked of chewed so who knows which caused the problem. I cast outside (moderate weather most of the year in Alabama) but still I use a fan rig to blow the fumes away. I fastened to 2 pieces of 1 by 8 about 14" long into a "L" shaped bracket. In the verticle part I sawed a hole the diameter of a tuna can. I cut the bottom from a tuna can and slipped the can into the hole so that the can was flush on the inside of the "L". Next I screwed a "muffin" fan (salvage from a discarded computer) on the inside of the vertical of the "L" concentric with the hole. I used a salvaged lamp cord to supply 115vac to the fan. I sit my casting pot on the horizontal part of the "L" just below the fan. The fan sucks air over the top of the casting pot and blow the fumes away. If one were casting inside, a dryer vent hose could slipped over the petruding part of the tuna can and fastened to a dryer through wall fixture. Lead causes brain damage and lots of other things you don't want. It is insidious so you know you are being irreversable harmed before you notice.

Wildkatt

[BigSlick]

This is a very timely post for me, I'm just getting ready to set up casting in my garage.

My thought was to use a six inch inline fan with a 200 or 300 CFM rating attached to a piece of duct vented to the outside, sitting the intake a few inches directly above the pots.

This being the case, how much tangible risk is there of lead dust getting on the floor of the garage ?

I always wash up thoroughly afterward when I load, smelt or cast. I don't eat or drink while doing any of the above.

I've read horror stories about lead exposure and many accounts of those who believe it's over-hyped. I know lot's of people have loaded/cast etc for eons with no appreciable change in blood levels. I'm happy for 'em, but that ain't me.

I've read most of the lawyer speak disclaimers of those who sell lead use related products, but does anyone know of a tangible source of practical information on limiting lead exposure ?

How would we measure the lead levels in our casting/loading areas ? How would anyone know if their preventive measures are ineffective, or overkill ?

I know this topic comes up regularly on loading forums and certainly casting discussions, but does anyone know of an actual way to determine effectiveness of preventive measures ? Since, often when one realizes lead prevention hasn't been effective, the damage has already been done.

Not questioning anyone's own experience or opinion, just looking for something to read that can apply to me.

How do the people on manufacturing plants measure lead levels in the work environment ?

If any of you work in a battery plant or the like, can you share a little insight with us ?

Thanks

'Slick
________
CHEAP AIRSOFT PISTOL METAL ALLOY SHELL (http://airsoft-shop.info/p/airsoft-pistol-metal-alloy-shell/)

[piwo]

i undersatnd the reasoning for smelting outside...the fumes and odor from fluxing...but my question is, once smelting is completed and ingots are made....is it ok to cast indoors where it might be alittle warmer in this cold state of Wisconsin?...is the fumes ordor bad for the "loved one " to endure?

Quicknot - I opened a thread awhile back asking similar question, and there were numerous suggestions. If you go to http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=11156&page=3
I have a picture on that page (3) with what I whiped up. Works well. It's cold here as well and I stay warm... that's all I care... you can pretty much see how it all fits in... cold air sealed out, fan pushes fumes out... anyway.. read the thread.. you might learn something about sewing machines as well!

[Sundogg1911]

I cast in my utility building aka. "the Bullet Barn". I use a range hood to vent the stink outside. The smell is from dirt and impurities. If you cast bullets at 800 or 850, your safe. (relitivly speaking) you are casting under the flash point of lead and most of what is in the air is impuritys etc. I use all precautions. (don't smoke, eat drink etc. while casting without washing my hands. Also, don't leave your coffee close to the pot. I keep my coffee, pepesi, tea, etc on the other side of the room. If you think your range hood is pulling everything out, toss in some wax or something that smokes and watch it circle the room. just use common sense.

[Goatlips]

A friend has been casting for about 40 years without venting. Now at 89 he has
neuropathy in his feet and lower legs. Of course, he has always smoked of chewed so who knows which caused the problem.
Wildkatt

Wildkatt, 89? I'm gonna start smoking again! :drinks:

Goatlips

[454PB]

Wildkatt, 89? I'm gonna start smoking again! :drinks:

Goatlips

Yeah, I know a lot of people that lived the mormon life and didn't live anywhere close to 89.

Someday all these clean livin' people are going to be laying in nursing homes dying of nothing:roll: