Cast bullet penetration in steel

[BAGTIC]

I am looking for some information about how well cast bullets, especially hard cast, penetrate steel. Everything from sheet metal to light mild plate.

Has anyone come across anything? Would appreciate a link, etc.

[geargnasher]

My .30-06 and 45/90 will both shoot clean through 1/4" mild steel plate if hit at 90 degrees with wheel-weight boolits, on the SECOND hit in the same spot. If you want to penetrate steel you'll need a hard core. If you don't want to penetrate it (as in silhouette targets), make the target out of boiler plate or hardened steel. Better yet, buy professionally made and tested ones for not much more than you can make them, and they are laser cut and have no welds to monkey with the temper of the steel.

Gear

[lwknight]

The problen with penetrating steel with cast is that high velocity is required to penetrate steel over 1/4" thick. 3000 fps will penetrate 1/2" mild steel even with soft lead but thats out of normal cast range.

If you are in a war , forget the cast ammo and go pro with AP ammo. Cast shooters generally do not like to destroy the back stops. There is a reason that copper jackets were invented.
Sorta like airplanes vs boats.

[waksupi]

The Bator Heavy out of my .358 Win. punches holes at 200 yards in 5/8" steel. 2100 fps territory starting out. It did twice anyway, until the guy who owned the target commented on it. We were both surprised. He wouldn't let me try again.

[303Guy]

I remember shooting steel plate with a 180gr cast 303 Brit boolit. It punched right through when it hit nose first but made a boolit shaped impression when it hit side on. That was before re-barreling that gun.;-) The plate was 8mm mild steel if I remember correctly. I found by limited testing that lead would penetrate steel as well as j-words at high velocity.

Maybe I should do some comparisons in my 'test tube'. I won't use the same gun as I don't like putting j's down the bores of most of my rifles.

[44man]

My revolvers punch nasty holes in my target stand at 100 yards. It is stout square tubing. I will get some pictures when it stops raining.

[x101airborne]

My revolvers punch nasty holes in my target stand at 100 yards. It is stout square tubing. I will get some pictures when it stops raining.

Hey, can ya maybe send us some rain?:kidding:

My 44 and my 357 will punch through 2x2x3/16 angle iron from nearly any angle at 100 yards easily and with regularity.

[44man]

Hey, can ya maybe send us some rain?:kidding:

My 44 and my 357 will punch through 2x2x3/16 angle iron from nearly any angle at 100 yards easily and with regularity.
I wish! It has rained all week.

[beagle]

As has been mentioned, the velocity is the thing. 7mm Mags do particullarily well on steel with jacketed bullets.

We once ran a test on a railroad plate.

The .300 Win Mag with a 180 SP pockmarked it heavily but failed to penetrate at 100 yards.

The .223 with FMJ also pockmarked it heavily but failed to penetrate.

My .223 cast stuff at 2400 FPS barely dimpled it but some .223 cast loaded to 2700 FPS made a fair dimple.

On the handgun side we once had the opportunity to shoot up an old Studebaker on the police range with .38 Specials in a .357 Python. This was shooting straight into the side of the vehicle.

A 148 grain wad penetrated the outside metal.

A 357446 loaded over 3.5 grains of Bullseye penetrated both sides of the door.

Some Air Force FMJ 200 grain ammo which was pretty warm penetrated both doors.

If you're looking for armor piercing qualities, cast is not the way to go./beagle


A 357446 loaded over 3.5 grains of Bullseye penetrated the whole door .

Some Air Force FMJ

[selmerfan]

When I get out shooting on Monday I'll let you know how my AR500 plates stand up to jacketed from a .260 Remington and cast from the .308 Win. They better splash and take the paint off and nothing else for what those plates cost!

[aussie460mag]

I have found that i can get just as much penetration if not more than 300XTPmag
(shown in photo 12mm plate shot from 25 meters) using a water dropped wheel weights out of my S&W 460mag.
The cast boolits seem to burrow further into the steel.

[superior]

The problen with penetrating steel with cast is that high velocity is required to penetrate steel over 1/4" thick. 3000 fps will penetrate 1/2" mild steel even with soft lead but thats out of normal cast range.

If you are in a war , forget the cast ammo and go pro with AP ammo. Cast shooters generally do not like to destroy the back stops. There is a reason that copper jackets were invented.
Sorta like airplanes vs boats.

I may be mistaken, but I believe jacketed ammo in war is preferred for higher velocity / ballistic performance, as well as cleanliness of the ammo.
My 45-70 with 405 grain pb cb's at 1400fps. has blown half-dollar sized holes through heavy truck wheels (20000 gvw) placed end to end at 50 yards. My 303Brit shooting small 160gr gaschecked boolits will shoot through one end of those wheels at 1900fps.. I was and still am amazed at what lead will do. On the other hand, I've had fmj's and soft-point jacketed ammo fail miserably trying similar shots. Bottom line: Do NOT underestimate the penetration cabability of cast boolits.

[Az Rick]

beagle, Never shoot a Studebaker!! That statement brought a tear, one of my first cars was a '64 Commander, with the "hill holder" clutch, three on the tree, they just don't make 'em like that anymore, "probably a good thing".

[fecmech]

When I get out shooting on Monday I'll let you know how my AR500 plates stand up to jacketed from a .260 Remington and cast from the .308 Win. They better splash and take the paint off and nothing else for what those plates cost!

Had my 1/4" AR500 plate shot with a .243 with an 85 gr Jacketed bullet@3100fps and it left just the vary slightest hint of a dent. Not so much visable as feelable. Had my 3/8" AR500 plate shot with some guys AR 6.5@ 50 yds and all it did was take off the paint. If it's 3/8" or thicker I think you will be happy.

[JIMinPHX]

A 150 grain 13bhn boolit @ 2300fps will go through 1/4" hot roll steel at 90 degrees. A 50-grain 13bnh boolit @ 2,000fps will take a divot out of hot roll steel at a 45 degree angle. Below 1,800fps, very little damage is done to steel by lead boolits.

[ilcop22]

It's a simple matter of physics. Steel is harder than lead. As some have mentioned, you can get some penetration out of mild or thin steel, but if you're looking for AP, lead is a very poor choice.

[hydraulic]

I probably won't need any AP bullets, because I don't think I'll be in a war in the near future. I don't have a "Scout" rifle, either, because I don't do much scouting behind enemy lines.

[high standard 40]

With lead bullets, velocity is the determining factor in steel penetration. About 1800fps is the threshold for damage to mild steel. The more you go above that speed, the greater the penetration will be. Below that speed, very little effect except on thinner steel. Bullet hardness has some effect but not as much as velocity.

[waksupi]

I do believe high sectional density is the answer.

[Topper]

Half inch steel plate swing target shoot with 45-70 360gr air cooled wheel weight alloy.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/Topper_1950/45-70_360.jpg
I will shoot at 100yds from now on [smilie=b:

[fryboy]

quenched ww's 158 grain .358 swc thru a t/c 10" 357 barrel , loaded in 38 special cases a ding in 1/4" steel @ 30 yards , loaded in a mag case almost penetrated ( left a hole that looks like a punch out that almost didnt get punched thru ) same boolit in a 14" 357 herret barrel left a nice hole showing as stated above velocity is key , not sure what the steel was from so i doubt that it's hardened

[jwhite]

My .348 will drive a 220gr LFN @ 2200 right through 1/4" plate like it is butter when cast out of water dropped wheel weights. Looks like the holes were punched out on hydraulic press. I think sectional density has quite a bit of effect on how the boolits penetrate steel.

JW

[high standard 40]

I see some responses here point to sectional density and it can be a factor but velocity is the main ingredient. An example is in order. Let's take a piece of 1/2" thick mild steel for a target and two firearms to test with vastly different sectional density. A 22 Hornet with a 45 grain bullet at 2400 fps vs a 45-70 with a 405 grain bullet at 1500 fps. The 22 Hornet will do far more damage to the plate at 50 yards even though it has far less sectional density. Now if you could crank that 405 grain bullet up to 2400 fps, the results would be very impressive.

[subsonic]

It depends on the steel - but velocity is the major factor, with kinetic energy and frontal area also figuring in - frontal area is related to material hardness and time - which is related to velocity.

[scb]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1365060&postcount=12
Done with a paper patched 280 some odd grain boolit loaded with the same powder charge as my jacketed stuff.

[303Guy]

Curious how the steel fractured at the rear. I've had plugs being punched out and the beginnings of the plug being punched out with the fracture lines running as would be expected of a plug.

Stil, there can be no doubt that a hard cored bullet, i.e. hardened steel, would penetrate far more efficiently as it won't deform and increase the area it acts on and won't consume energy in deformation. That's why cast penetrates better at high velocity when the energy level is very high and time is short. But cast will penetrate just as well a soft nose j-word