Really peeved at Lee Precision

[x101airborne]

Perhaps I am wearing my sensitivities out on my sleeve this morning, But I am peeved off at Lee Precision.

I recently purchased a Lee push Through Sizer supposed to be of .451 diamater. Well, it is sizing boolits to .4485. So I called Lee and the sarcastic tech on the other end of the phone scoffed at me when I asked for a shipping label to send the item back. I did not ask for an address label, I asked for a pre-paid shipping label to send the item back. Well, after some rather unappreciated comments and sonversational undertones from the tech, lets say we agree to disagree that they should pay the shipping for me to return thier *** pi$$ poor quality control parts.

If I am just being overly sensitive, it would not be the first time, but I really feel that it is not my responsibility to pay for these items to be returned. And I know that I could remedy this myself, but if I wanted to make the part myself, I would have made the whole dang thing myself. I have asked RCBS, Dillon precision, and Hornady for a pre-paid label and they were always happy to either re-emburse my shipping or send a label. Why does a large company like Lee "Precision" have such poor customer service and more so.... such poor quality control? So many stories of poor molds, defective handels, under or over sized sizers and other **** products I just dont think I am buying any more Lee products.

:takinWiz:
Lee

[woody1]

Lee prob'ly works on a smaller profit margin than Dillon and RCBS but I don't think I'd let it go where you are now. They've a Satisfaction Guaranteed warranty and I'd push it on up the line. Do it with e-mail and it won't cost ya a dime. Regards, Woody

[Colorado4wheel]

Whenever I ordered a Lee push through die I always ordered 3. Size I wanted and then two sizes up. Then returned the ones that didn't work. They never sized right for me. I order from Midway because they make returns easy.

[John Boy]

I have plenty of the Lee resizing dies and nearly everyone is 0.001 smaller than the stated size. So when I want a custom plug, I just order one that is 0.001 larger in diameter

[jonk]

I'm very surprised. They've always done good by me with satisfaction and warranty stuff.

[Ben]

It is a shame that we've come to a point in America where you order something, when it arrives, YOU have to work on it and modify it to make it work right.

I'm sorry to say that I'm seeing more and more of this as the day goes by. Is quality control so expensive for these companies that they can't afford it. Or is it a matter of work ethic and pride in their products that they make ?

Ben

[white eagle]

It seem as though the #'s f parts in the parts basket
at the end of the shift is what counts
never slow down for out of spec. parts
I was a q/c in a large local die cast plant
I once shut down an entire line for .0005 out of spec.
boy did I hear an ear full from the line foreman bout what its going to take
for that .0005 needless to say took them 12 hrs to adjust the dies and machine

[geargnasher]

Not making an excuse for Lee, but you can hone it to size boolits of your particular mould and alloy to any size you want in less time than that phone call would have taken, and for less sandpaper than the cost of a postage stamp. When you pay $15 for a tool that costs much more elsewhere, it's not worth getting the blood pressure up over .0025" when it's so easy to fix. I'm in the habit of buying two or three of the same size at a time so I CAN make slight changes as necessary to fit different guns. Your expectations may vary.

BTW, I've had much better luck with Lee dies being the right size than I have had with LYMAN dies.

Gear

[Recluse]

I haven't bought anything from Lee since the Obama scare wiped everyone's shelves out, so the Lee stuff I have is older and made before the rush to production took place.

That said, my sizing dies are spot on as are the molds (2-cavity) and there's only been one piece of Lee equipment that I couldn't live with and tossed in the trash.

But what I've been hearing for the past year or better is not encouraging at all. I was going through that with Lyman, and that was before the Obama scare and before people were buying everything they could for fear it would be outlawed.

As far as pre-paid shipping or being reimbursed for shipping costs? I've never had RCBS or Lyman or Hornady give me pre-paid shipping or reimburse me. Never. I've always shipped the broken part back to them on my dime.

I do have a suggestion that would eliminate 99% of all the sloppy QC that is happening with Lyman and Lee and (some) others:

Companies SHOULD offer pre-paid shipping and each manufactured part should be stamped with a number identifying the QC inspector who let the bad product/production run slip through and into the general distribution pile.

The shipping charges to return the product would be taken out of the QC inspector's paycheck.

:coffee:

[Wally]

I haven't bought anything from Lee since the Obama scare wiped everyone's shelves out, so the Lee stuff I have is older and made before the rush to production took place.

That said, my sizing dies are spot on as are the molds (2-cavity) and there's only been one piece of Lee equipment that I couldn't live with and tossed in the trash.

But what I've been hearing for the past year or better is not encouraging at all. I was going through that with Lyman, and that was before the Obama scare and before people were buying everything they could for fear it would be outlawed.

As far as pre-paid shipping or being reimbursed for shipping costs? I've never had RCBS or Lyman or Hornady give me pre-paid shipping or reimburse me. Never. I've always shipped the broken part back to them on my dime.

I do have a suggestion that would eliminate 99% of all the sloppy QC that is happening with Lyman and Lee and (some) others:

Companies SHOULD offer pre-paid shipping and each manufactured part should be stamped with a number identifying the QC inspector who let the bad product/production run slip through and into the general distribution pile.

The shipping charges to return the product would be taken out of the QC inspector's paycheck.

:coffee:

Good idea...however it seems they just "Spot Check" their production and the customer does the final QC. Imagine how many buyers don't bother to do anything...many abhor having to return anything. It is a PITA to do so and shipping is not cheap and you have to write a letter!

[leadhead]

Yea, That inspector at Lyman, Cathy T would have
to rob a bank to pay back all the mistakes she's
made.
Denny

[geargnasher]

Yea, That inspector at Lyman, Cathy T would have
to rob a bank to pay back all the mistakes she's
made.
Denny

BINGO! I did some checking, and Cathy T has checked every single mould I or my friends own that was made since 2001 (or 2, don't remember exactly), and it was Mary something before that for a few years. Cathy T must be blind in one eye and 20-200 in the other.

Gear

[462]

x101airborne,
I would send a very civil e-mail to Mr. Lee, explaining the facts, your disappointment with his product, what it will take to keep you as a satisfied Lee customer, and if Lee is unwilling to meet my expectations they will forever loose me as a customer.

A few years ago, I had a disappointing experience with Graf & Sons -- a trivial $5 dispute -- and they haven't, nor will they ever, see any more of my business.

Casting and reloading customers are an extremely small percentage of the buying public. But, if we stick to our quality control and customer service expectations, the industry will take heed. There was a recent thread about Lee introducing a new hand primer, due to our dissatisfaction with their XR model. If they don't hear from us, they will assume that we are happy.

By the way, Midway reimbursed my shipping cost to return two defective Lee moulds, but RCBS wanted me to return a broken item on my dime.

[Wally]

BINGO! I did some checking, and Cathy T has checked every single mould I or my friends own that was made since 2001 (or 2, don't remember exactly), and it was Mary something before that for a few years. Cathy T must be blind in one eye and 20-200 in the other.

Gear


Maybe the CEO's daughter?...sounds like a pre-depression bank examiner...

[woody1]

Just a question. Can't alloy differences account for a few thousanths due to different springback of the boolits? At least it wasn't too big. Regards, Woody

[edler7]

... Cathy T must be blind in one eye and 20-200 in the other.


Sometimes ADA workplace laws can go a little too far. I think her sister works QC for some of the optics companies.

[onondaga]

Too bad that happened to you. I wish i worked for Lee and I would apologize to you.

I called Lee tech with a similar beef but I paid the shipping. Since then I have learned to hone out sizers and it is very easy to get just what I want in size with my boolits and my alloy.

During the conversation with the Lee tech I was told that different alloys size differently in the Lee sizer dies and that the dies are designed to get the best results with the widest variety of alloys. I kinda buy that and understand that.

Waiting for a die that you expect to work perfectly for you so you can get started on a project is exciting but disappointments are certainly upsetting.

I hope you don't break it off with Lee.

I always plan on at least polishing the Lee sizers to a better shine inside so they will run smoother-- they are a very inexpensive sizing die and I can accept that I likely will need to work them a bit.

Gary

[Me not you]

The shipping charges to return the product would be taken out of the QC inspector's paycheck.

:coffee:[/QUOTE]

Better to take them out of the production manager's pay as well. He would then no longer be fighting QC.

[Bwana]

"It is a shame that we've come to a point in America where you order something, when it arrives, YOU have to work on it and modify it to make it work right."

I can remember that this applied to almost every 1911 you might buy. Not so now. Things are a lot better now. That's one reason a disappointment stands out. I'll take todays products anyday.

[Wally]

Had a Lee .38 Cal 105 SWC DC bullet mold. I could see a sizeable gap through it with the blocks tightly closed. Cast bullets would "fin" on me so I returned it. The brand new replacement has a gap as well, albeit it is much smaller. What angers me is they sent some papers with it alluding to my not lubricating the mold properly and this caused a block mis-match. IOW they almost came out and told me it was "user's error"... Cost me $5.40 to ship it to them . I won't spend another $5.40 to send it back. Guess I'll have to lubricate it and hope for the best

[Judan_454]

Ive always had pretty good luck with Lee products over the years. In fact most of my dies and reloading presses and bullet casting equipment are Lee. I have casted many of thousands of bullets and loaded high quailty rounds on there equipment for a reasonable price. I guess if the custmer service is a little lax I understand.
Its kind of like the Mac vs PC debate you pay 1000 dollors for a I MAC and you pay 500 dollars for a PC. You call tech support for the 500 dollar PC you get someone in India you can't understand. You call tech support for the MAC there customer support is wonderful. The tech support is all built into the price of the product you are paying for. So its up to the customer to make that desision if Lee products suck then market place will sort that out, the good company will prosper and the and the bad company will fail.
Just my two cents. :drinks:

[geargnasher]

During the conversation with the Lee tech I was told that different alloys size differently in the Lee sizer dies and that the dies are designed to get the best results with the widest variety of alloys. I kinda buy that and understand that.

Gary

This is very true, and all the companies that make boolit sizer dies have their own ways of determining the "average" alloy that will be used, and there can be a couple or three thousandths difference in the result due to springback, as Woody1 mentioned. Linotype will come out a LOT larger than pure lead will, this is one of the reasons it's so important to use "dead soft" pure lead for barrel slugs, WW alloy or similar will show the groove diameter to be larger than it actually is.

Gear

[Space Cadet]

You fellows don't kow how lucky ya got it. Things could be worse. Have ya been taking Chinese lessons lately?

[BoolitSchuuter]

I understand different alloys having different final diameters having been cast in the same mould. I don't understand different alloys having different diameters after being run thru the same size die.

[Ben]

I don't understand different alloys having different diameters after being run thru the same size die.

Hardness or the lack of it and spring back .
___________________________________________

From a quote by 9.3X62AL06-06-2008, 10:20 AM

Generally, the harder a lead alloy is--the more "spring-back" it will retain after sizing. Unalloyed lead seems to be a "dead metal" when sized, but you can pick up ~.0002" of diameter at each step by using WW--Taracorp--Linotype alloys in that order.

[Edward429451]

I use Lee dippers and they never give me any trouble.:mrgreen:

You guys make it sound pretty easy to open up a die a little. What grit?

[Char-Gar]

I don't think you are over sensitive to this issue. Folks who make bad products and then make the customer pay for any portion of the cost to replace it are some form of thief in my opinion. It that to harsh?

I have not had a good experience with Lee products. About half the time, the product is out of spec or needs some kind of fixing to get it to work correctly. Therefore, I shy away from their products. They will replace the product and rather quickly, but no offer to reimburse the postage or much else.

There are companies, like Ruger who will send you a pre-paid mailer when you return a product for factory guarantee service. This is the way all companies should do business. They should at least send a product voucher for the amount of postage.

[Wally]

I recall I had a Lee Loader in the 7mm Rem Mag...every so many cases that I resized, a case would get its' neck slightly mis-formed (1/10 of the case neck edge would receive a roll crimp). I called Lee and was told to send the sizer die body back...they sent me a new one--a 7mm Rem Mag case would not fit into the neck piece of the die--as it was too small. I called again...had to convince them they I not have to send back the second one they sent me another one. What I found to be "goofy" was---why didn't they check it before they sent it to me?

[williamwaco]

I have plenty of the Lee resizing dies and nearly everyone is 0.001 smaller than the stated size. So when I want a custom plug, I just order one that is 0.001 larger in diameter



I don't have them all but I do have six of them and every one of mine sizes one half thousandths (0.0005) less than the stated diameter.

[uscra112]

With something like a push-through sizer, it would be a trivial expense to check them with a go/no-go plug gage, but that's no the Lee way, I guess.

My ex-wife ordered clothing on-line constantly, and every seller paid for return shipping, BTW.

Good thing for me, as she returned more than she kept!

[joesig]

I use Lee dippers and they never give me any trouble.:mrgreen:

You guys make it sound pretty easy to open up a die a little. What grit?

I like the dippers too.

All of my Lee dies seemed rough internally. I tried to open one up by rolling it in valve grinding compound. That was a bit aggressive.

The last die I did was 320/400/600 grit. wet/dry paper wrapped on a 1/4 steel rod and rolled back and forth on my thigh on an old pair of jeans (productive TV time). I tried to open the die up .002 but not enough time was spent with the 320. It is MUCH nicer to use this way and you don't need to lube before sizing.

[HammerMTB]

I've had run-ins with Lee tech before too.
I don't take that their product is worthless. for the most part, they make stuff that I like to use. I think they skimp on training for customer service. I've spent a significant amount of time in my career learning how to deal with unhappy customers, and it still can be tough.
The Lee tech I talked to (Pat) said I needed to take it up with the seller. It was a Midway sale, and tho it was a while back, I was better off talking to their customer service dept (they knew how to handle a customer) than to waste my time with Lee.
I just remember if it is Lee, either I need to Lee-ment it, or send it back to the point of sale.

[x101airborne]

I know you all get my point, but I am FED UP with thinking that an out of spec product is worthy of what I am asking for. Dag Nabit, I expect someone who sells cars to put proper brakes on the dang thing. Just like what ever the heck Remington is doing with some of their new rifles and shotguns. We have never seen the likes of the junk they have turned out in the last 5 years. I am tired of excuses and sorry-a$$ed customer service. I dont care about someone who is having a bad day and doesnt want to do their job that day. If you dont like it, learn to type and become a secretary or a mortician or something that. (No offense to current secretaries or morticians, it is just an example.) Maybe I just dont want to be a cop today, so your burglary is just not getting processed like it should. How would you feel? Is it your fault? Would you complain? I am throwing a BS flag on the play.

[HammerMTB]

I know you all get my point, but I am FED UP with thinking that an out of spec product is worthy of what I am asking for. Dag Nabit, I expect someone who sells cars to put proper brakes on the dang thing. Just like what ever the heck Remington is doing with some of their new rifles and shotguns. We have never seen the likes of the junk they have turned out in the last 5 years. I am tired of excuses and sorry-a$$ed customer service. I dont care about someone who is having a bad day and doesnt want to do their job that day. If you dont like it, learn to type and become a secretary or a mortician or something that. (No offense to current secretaries or morticians, it is just an example.) Maybe I just dont want to be a cop today, so your burglary is just not getting processed like it should. How would you feel? Is it your fault? Would you complain? I am throwing a BS flag on the play.

I get your point. We'd like to fix it, you want to vent....
Go ahead! Vent some more! Get it all out, it's poison to keep it in!
Like lancin' a festerin' boil....

And


Maybe I just dont want to be a cop today, so your burglary is just not getting processed like it should.

I've had that happen to me before. It doesn't matter what the service or product, it seems these days you can get the short end of the sh!+ stick.
Smile! Tomorrow could be better! :roll:

[Heavy lead]

While I have some Lee reloading equipement, dies and a good cast iron single stage press, and Pro Auto disk powder measures, you can have there casting equipment, it is at best a 50/50 proposition, especially molds, especially the two cavity molds.
The push through's have always come small, easy to hone out. I don't use them much, but have a few around in case I need them.

[Bosshaug]

Arrrgh! I ordered a Lee mold from Graf & Sons this am....:x

[Heavy lead]

Arrrgh! I ordered a Lee mold from Graf & Sons this am....:x

It might be fine, I only have a couple of Lee's left, one is the new buckshot mold and it casts just fine, another is a 50 caliber two cavity 440 grain round flat, it casts a wonderful accurate boolit, but it is a *** to use, it won't close unless you turn it upside down and close it slow.
Casting 50 of those boolits will try the patients of a good man, which I am not.
I'll have to duplicate this thing with Mountain Molds on line drawings as I'm about sick of the BS.
I have had other good ones in the past, and also use nothing but Lee handles, of course JB Weld is needed with them before use, but they are cheap and work well.

[nhopper]

Some credit card companies have additional faulty product and consumer options you could explore. Usually it is for things purchased within a given distance of your home, but each one is different. If you paid with CC look over any "signature" options to see what remedy you have. Last resort is to dispute the charge after you have a paper trail of correspondance with manufacturer.

[ilcop22]

They also only spot check condoms... At least your sizing die won't cost you $200,000 in child rearing. :wink:

[cutter_spc]

They also only spot check condoms... At least your sizing die won't cost you $200,000 in child rearing.


Thats a good one :bigsmyl2:

[HeavyMetal]

I've had my run in's with Lee Tech service as well.

Case in Point was a single cavity 44 HP mold I bought from them. Cast great good fill out dropped right out of the mold...at .428 diameter.

Returned it and got the same mold back 3 weeks later simple note in box "casts to correct diameter".

Fired up the pot, played with alloy content all day, never made a boolit bigger than .428.

When I called to ask what they did to it I was told they cast with it and it made boolits at .431 diameter.

Since I was working an aerospace company at the time all my measuring devices had to be checked weekly, company policy not contract reqiured, and the inspector all ways said mine were within .0005 of dead on.

So you tell me who had the issue?

I still buy Lee products, at least those that look like they do the job, but I still get stuff with issues. Currently I have a 44 310 mold floating around here some place that Is to big in the base to accept a gas check.

Send it back, no way even if they paid for it! Why? because thier QC does not make mistakes and all Lee product is perfect!

Ask them they'll be very proud to tell you so!

So the mold sits until I feel like loping off the bottom of it and make it a plain base.

So I still buy thier stuff with the knowledge that 50% or more is "off" and I'll either fix it or chuck it depending on what it is.

Nothing wrong with the basic product they just don't seem to care about quality.

Now here's the kicker: if you look at the top of the page you'll see they are a vendor supporter and have thier Logo up there and all that.

Matter of fact the word is they have a guy or two viewing this site on a regular basis.

How is it they never speak up and defend the product, or better yet, how about standing up saying we are here how can we help with this product??

To Lee Precision: Here is your chance gentleman to put to bed all the ugly rumors of not caring, to defend yourself from charges of being "rude", and show us that you can actually admit you make mistakes and that you can get them fixed with a smile on your face and a pleasent tone in your voice!

[dromia]

Ikea is Swedish for Lee.

[x101airborne]

If lee really has someone viewing this site, they should be blushing with shame. SHAME!!!

My wife gave me some kind of flack about spending 150 bucks on a custom mold from one of our mold makers on this site. I had an issue and was IMMEDIATELY shipped a new mold and allowed to keep the old one. And got an apology. I would rather spend 150 on good customer service than spend 15 bucks and get the shaft.

As far as lee goes, where is my middle finger button?

[Char-Gar]

Sometime back, I posted here about some Brownell broken screw driver bits that I had found after almost 40 years. I sent them back, telling then when I had broken them and they replaced them with no questions. Now that is customer service.

A few days latter I got a call from Brownells, asking if they could use my post in their literature. Of course I said yes, and they said they had a web crawler program that told them anytime Brownells was mentioned, and they read that reference.

I guess Lee's web crawler either human or digital is broken. I suppose they don't give a hoot because there are so many Lee worshipers, who buy Lee as a knee jerk reaction, because of the lower cost. They seem to think, having to fix new reloading equipment is par for the course.

P.S...It does my soul good to read this thread. Over the years, I have had the Lee fans crawl all over me, for my negative remarks about Lee products in general. Nice to see I am not alone in this concern.

[Maximumbob54]

I have broken a set of mold handles, a pin in a depriming die, and have a bad melting pot. They are all from Lee. But you know what the problem was? ME. I admit it. I was not using it right, forcing something, or just generally being stubborn. Each time they offered to replace the broken part but each time I fess’ed up and admitted it was my fault and insisted to pay. If anything is at fault with Lee products on a regular it’s that they aren’t over built like some do. I have no doubt they rush some through the line that are lemons. But I also have no doubt that with just an ounce of stubborn a person can wreck just about anything. I have thought about polishing my push through dies or opening up a few of my molds but so far they all work just fine. I guess I’m lucky with Lee, but unlucky with women… I shouldn’t joke like that, she might see this and slap the smile off my face…!

[Colorado4wheel]

I have many thing that Lee makes. I am a strong supporter of their dies (Except the FCD for Pistol). I have bought two Lee CLASSIC turrets. I would consider their Classic Single stage if I needed one. I own two Lee Two Cavity Molds. Both cast fine but one is a PITA. First one was great so I gave them another chance. I have never owned a 6 cavity mold that worked for ME. So for me personally, Lee is very hit of miss. Misses are the LM, 6 cavity molds, bullet sizers, small tools they sell, probably more. With Lee you just need to know what your buying and whether you personally know how to make it work for your needs.

[Char-Gar]

I have broken a set of mold handles, a pin in a depriming die, and have a bad melting pot. They are all from Lee. But you know what the problem was? ME. I admit it. I was not using it right, forcing something, or just generally being stubborn. Each time they offered to replace the broken part but each time I fess’ed up and admitted it was my fault and insisted to pay. If anything is at fault with Lee products on a regular it’s that they aren’t over built like some do. I have no doubt they rush some through the line that are lemons. But I also have no doubt that with just an ounce of stubborn a person can wreck just about anything. I have thought about polishing my push through dies or opening up a few of my molds but so far they all work just fine. I guess I’m lucky with Lee, but unlucky with women… I shouldn’t joke like that, she might see this and slap the smile off my face…!

I have mold handles by Lyman, RCBS, Cramer, SAECO and Belding and none have broken. In fact I don't know how one would go about breaking mold handles. If you can break them, there is something wrong. Also how do you break a melting pot? You plug it in, turn up the heat, wait and start casting! I fail to see how these item can be broken apart from intentional abuse.

What you call "over built", I call well made. You have drunk the Lee Koolaid!

[Judan_454]

Originally Posted by Maximumbob54
I have broken a set of mold handles, a pin in a depriming die, and have a bad melting pot. They are all from Lee. But you know what the problem was? ME. I admit it. I was not using it right, forcing something, or just generally being stubborn. Each time they offered to replace the broken part but each time I fess’ed up and admitted it was my fault and insisted to pay. If anything is at fault with Lee products on a regular it’s that they aren’t over built like some do. I have no doubt they rush some through the line that are lemons. But I also have no doubt that with just an ounce of stubborn a person can wreck just about anything. I have thought about polishing my push through dies or opening up a few of my molds but so far they all work just fine. I guess I’m lucky with Lee, but unlucky with women… I shouldn’t joke like that, she might see this and slap the smile off my face…!

I can't believe this post is true,but the post is sure funny. I have 12 Lee molds and have not broke a handle yet. But I will also fess up that I had not bought a lee mold in a while,not because a would not buy one its just because I havent felt the need to buy a new mold yet. I guess there quality control had went way down sence I last purchase a Lee mold. I always thought Lee made a good product for a fair price,but maybe not. I guess I will have to buy something from Lee to find out if the products went down hill in the quality that much.

[Greg in va]

I once broke a lee O type press half in to, called them and asked what they would do about it, their reply was operator error.....I boxed it up with the die still in it, it was a lee die, and shipped it to them with a note saying if this was the best they could do they could keep the press the dies and the case that was still in the die and I would never buy anything from them again. Less than two weeks later I received in the mail a new press, a new full set of 30/06 dies and a box of new 30/06 brass with a note that said.......Thanks

[mpmarty]

That's why I deal with and use Dillon products. Every time I have called them to report a minor problem they have sent parts as needed to fix it at their dime and I never had to send them anything. No BS is a fact with Dillon.

[x101airborne]

That's why I deal with and use Dillon products. Every time I have called them to report a minor problem they have sent parts as needed to fix it at their dime and I never had to send them anything. No BS is a fact with Dillon.

AMEN!! I have called Dillon PRECISION several times with my hat in hand telling them that I SCREWED UP and did something stupid. They would not let me pay for the parts for any reason and insisted that they fix the problem on their dime. Their dies are what, like 60.00 or something? I would pay that many times over for a top notch product and a decent customer service department.

Dillon, if you are listening, customer service means more than anything.

[cosmoline one]

I use Lee products BUT when you contact them to fix something "its always your fault & not the product"s". That attitude pisses me off!I've been with them long enough to see them correct some of their products that I complained about & was told it was my fault!!
The XR primer is ****!BTW watch how fast they fix that one.

[cbrick]

Casting and reloading customers are an extremely small percentage of the buying public.

That's true as stated however, casting and reloading customers are 100% of the reloading tool and casting tool mfg's customers, reloaders and casters are the ONLY customers they have.

Had to go back and read this thread twice, WOW. These are the very things I've been saying about LEE for years and every time I dare mention such a thing I got jumped all over from every direction. Not once in my life have I bought any tool for the purpose of finding how much time and effort I would have to spend to force the tool to do what it is I paid good money for it to do, then hold my breath hoping it would keep doing it.

No LEE for me thanks, there are way too many quality tools out there even if you have to wait to get it while you save up the money.

Rick

[Doble Troble]

I've got a shelf full of Lee sizers, and they've all been on the money for the mutt metal I cast. I've got a shelf full of their molds and a couple have required some work on my part, but by making them work (following advice offered here) I've learned a lot about what makes a good mold. I've got a Loadmaster too, I do see why some people can't get them to work, because it does require understanding how each of the components operates and optimizing adjustments- this is unfortunately further than many are willing to go. If you can't spare the time to understand and make the small adjustments that these very fairly priced tools sometimes require, then should you really be making your own ammunition? Even with the best and most expensive tools it isn't hard for the hasty to get in trouble assembling cartridges - especially if you don't understand each and every factor involved or potentially involved.

[cbrick]

I've got a shelf full of Lee sizers, and they've all been on the money for the mutt metal I cast. I've got a shelf full of their molds and a couple have required some work on my part, but by making them work (following advice offered here) I've learned a lot about what makes a good mold. I've got a Loadmaster too, I do see why some people can't get them to work, because it does require understanding how each of the components operates and optimizing adjustments- this is unfortunately further than many are willing to go. If you can't spare the time to understand and make the small adjustments that these very fairly priced tools sometimes require, then should you really be making your own ammunition? Even with the best and most expensive tools it isn't hard for the hasty to get in trouble assembling cartridges - especially if you don't understand each and every factor involved or potentially involved.

I can think of several things to reply to your calling many of us stupid but it would certainly be trounced upon by the mods.

I do get a warm fuzzy feeling though knowing that you alone know how to reload and even more important, make adjustments, after all you use LEE crappolla.

Rick

[ku4hx]

Perhaps I am wearing my sensitivities out on my sleeve this morning, But I am peeved off at Lee Precision.

I recently purchased a Lee push Through Sizer supposed to be of .451 diamater. Well, it is sizing boolits to .4485. So I called Lee and the sarcastic tech on the other end of the phone scoffed at me when I asked for a shipping label to send the item back. I did not ask for an address label, I asked for a pre-paid shipping label to send the item back. Well, after some rather unappreciated comments and sonversational undertones from the tech, lets say we agree to disagree that they should pay the shipping for me to return thier *** pi$$ poor quality control parts.

If I am just being overly sensitive, it would not be the first time, but I really feel that it is not my responsibility to pay for these items to be returned. And I know that I could remedy this myself, but if I wanted to make the part myself, I would have made the whole dang thing myself. I have asked RCBS, Dillon precision, and Hornady for a pre-paid label and they were always happy to either re-emburse my shipping or send a label. Why does a large company like Lee "Precision" have such poor customer service and more so.... such poor quality control? So many stories of poor molds, defective handels, under or over sized sizers and other **** products I just dont think I am buying any more Lee products.

:takinWiz:
Lee

I swore off Lee five years ago for reasons eerily similar to yours. Guess I'm just being overly sensitive too.

[Moonie]

I use Lee products BUT when you contact them to fix something "its always your fault & not the product"s". That attitude pisses me off!I've been with them long enough to see them correct some of their products that I complained about & was told it was my fault!!
The XR primer is ****!BTW watch how fast they fix that one.

I do hope they don't fix it, I love mine, and yes I've owned several of the last generation over the last 20+ years, I prefer the XR.