Brass ? High End Brass like Lapua VS average Brands?

[JesterGrin_1]

I have been wondering why would people purchase such high cost brass such as Lapua , Nosler or even Double Tap that is made by Star Line VS say Remington or Winchester or Federal Brass

Is there a real benefit between the higher cost brass VS average brass?

[oneokie]

Not sure, but I think the QC is much better on the high end brass. Have not heard of any failures with Lapua brass.

[Mike Kerr]

I have wondered the same thing myself. I accept that some Mfr may have a higher standard or quality control process than others but does that translate to a measurably more accurate round. Granted there is a physical difference in Lapua brass compared to other brands but as to whether or not that translates to improved accuracy ? Don't know.

Probably means longer case life but I don't know that for sure. Maybe others can point out discernable differences which produce noteworthy results.

regards,

:-):-)

[midnight]

I had the same question when buying 6.5 Grendel brass. Hornady is $35/100 & Lapua is $112/100. It can't be that much better. I bought the Hornady. If I can't get it to shoot I'll look at the Lapua again. They used to say Norma drilled their flash holes instead of punching them, maybe Lapua does too. Anyway you can uniform and deburr the Hornady flash holes yourself. Have you priced Lapua 338 Lapua lately.

Bob

[JesterGrin_1]

It looks like others have the same questions as I do on Brass.

As I know that they must meet SAMMI Specs for a minimum.

So the only things I could think of is since they are all made of Brass then is there brass better or thicker in places like the Web? I hope someone can shed some light on this?

As others have mentioned here once we get our brass and clean the flash holes and uniform the primer pockets and re size the brass correctly how can the premium brass be that much better than the standard brass that is available from say Remington or Winchester.

Or is it since most of the prep work is pre done by the premium brass manufacturers that it alone adds to the huge price difference?

The premium companies do say that they weigh there brass into lots but to not say how close the weight is between the whole lot.

Midnight yes I have seen the price of 338 Lapua and darn glad I do not have one lol. If I was going to spend that much I would go back to the Ole 50 BMG. :) Even though I have looked at the 338 Edge :). But in the end felt for what I do a 35 Whelen should work just fine. :)

[DCM]

The quality and consistency of the necks, internal volume, flash holes, primer pockets, case life and weight is MUCH better on Lapua and Norma brass than with Fed,Win or Rem brass. If you want brass you can take out of the box and load to win a bench rest match buy Nosler it is even More consistent than Norma or Lapua. It boils down to how accurate you want to be, how much your time is worth and how many pieces of brass you want to cull.

The .338 Lapua cartridge brass has always been ridiculously priced and the cartridge will knock the snot out of you in a hunting weight rifle without a brake. No thanks.

[pmer]

When I used to shoot High Power I would buy Lapua brass for 308 win, 223 Rem and 6.5 - 284. My thinking made it OK to skip most of the case preperation and save time. But then again a box of Match Kings was cheaper back then too.

I wouldn't buy the spendy stuff for plinking and recreational shooting though except maybe if I did a lot PDog shooting at long range.

[JesterGrin_1]

I use my rifles to Hunt and or work up loads for a Hunt.

It has just been eating at me if it is really worth the extra cost in the end.

[nicholst55]

If I'm striving for ultimate accuracy, then I'll use premium brass. For PD shooting, plinking, or just general recreational shooting, I use Remchester brass. Premium brass is simply too expensive for something like prairie dog shooting, where you might go through 500 rounds a day.

[Reverend Recoil]

Lapua cases are used by many of the top shooters in high power rifle, Palma, and F-class competition. Its all about X's at 600 and 1000 yards with rifles that cost as much as a decent used car. The competiotion is tough. Major reginal Palma matches are decided by the X-count. Many long hot days of practice and small fortunes are spent for the slightest edge. Barrels are burned out and replaced once or twice a year. If these shooters think that a certain componet will add three X's to their score, that is what they will be shooting at the next match. The glory of winning at that level makes all worth while.

[leadhead]

I know that Norma brass is shall i say... Junk.
I can only get 2-3 loadings from it till it splits.
I'll stay with the cheaper brass. Come to think
of it, it's all pricy lately.
Denny

[Cowboy T]

Cheap brass for me. I don't go for 1" groups at 800 yards; I'm happy if Bambi falls to the M91/30. :-)

[KohlerK91]

I know that Norma brass is shall i say... Junk.
I can only get 2-3 loadings from it till it splits.
I'll stay with the cheaper brass. Come to think
of it, it's all pricy lately.
Denny

Check out the 308 win brass edurance test in the 2008 December Handloader Magazine NORMA beat them all including Lapua with 24 reloads before signs of failure!!!!!!!!!! Its pretty good stuff second place was R-P then Lapua(15reloads) ,winchester(13 Reload), federal Nosler fail at 7 reloads.........

Each case was FULL LENGHT SIZED after each shot

[badbob454]

inexpensive cheap rifle brass shoots better than i can hold the rifle still , 300 cases of the inexpensive , or 100 hi dollar brass its a no brainer for me starline, winchester, r&p ,lc all good enuff

[btroj]

Depends upon the gun and the application. No real BR shooter would be caught dead using cheap brass.
For off the shelf rifles commonly available brass is fine. For a precision built custom rifle the top shelf brass is worth the money. You get better construction, more concentricity, drilled rather than punched flash holes. These things all make a difference in some shooting sports, none in others.
This is an example of a time where the needs of one shooting sport don't always translate to all the others. For the precision shooting sports the extra cost is worth it, for a normal hunting rifle I would never spend the money.

[220swiftfn]

I have been wondering why would people purchase such high cost brass such as Lapua , Nosler or even Double Tap that is made by Star Line VS say Remington or Winchester or Federal Brass

Is there a real benefit between the higher cost brass VS average brass?

Some buy it just to say they have it, some buy it because they actually use the potential of the brass...(I know a few of these, and they STILL go through all the prep and sorting, but their reloads are pretty much clones when they're done...)

BTW, check the prices, last time I looked, Starline was cheaper than Winchester and Remington (for pistol brass anyways.....) Esp. ordering direct....


Dan

[JesterGrin_1]

Yes I know about Starline but they do not carry the rifle brass that I was looking for. Well they do make it but it is proprietary to the companies they produce it for. I know I called and asked today.

[zomby woof]

I bought Lapua and Norma brass for my 6.5X55 Swede. This is the only high priced brass I've ever bought. The Lapua brass was very consistent in weight. The Norma was not. I've only shot the Lapua. It's my Perry brass. It shoots very well. I get the best groups from it, by how much I'm not sure.

I talked with the Lapua rep at Perry last year, he said they punch their flash holes. They just keep their tooling sharp.

[1hole]

"Is there a real benefit between the higher cost brass VS average brass?"

Sure. And if we and our rifles are capabile of sub .5" groups we will probably see it. Otherwise we are kidding ourselves, like Obama's "stimulus" and 'jobs' plans - just costs a lot of money for no visible benefit.

[myfriendis410]

I certainly have found a difference between the "Big 3" and the "premium" brass. I use Nosler Custom in my .300 w.m. and it shows on paper.

You should look at the stuff Winchester is producing: irregular, off-center flashholes that you can't do anything about, the floor of the primer pocket is concave, not flat, etc. Of all of the production "Big 3" stuff out there the Federal is the most uniform IMO. I do use that in my 7mm r.m. and it shoots quite well. I've never tried Nosler Custom in that gun simply because the Federal does so well.

[Baja_Traveler]

When I started loading my Swede for Military Bolt Silhouette, I sprung for 100 6.5x55 Lapua cases. The problem with the 6.5x55 brass not made in Europe is that it is all formed from '06 cases, which is close - but just not big enough in diameter, so you end up with a bulge just ahead of the case head. I figure that shooting cast loads in Lapua cases, those 100 will last me many years...

[Stork]

Is premium brass worth it? All depends on the accuracy potential of your rifle.

If your rifle will shoot under 1/2", yes.

You'll find the consistency is "normally" better with Lapua and Norma. That isn't to say Win, Fed, Rem, Hor, Nos, PMC can't make consistent brass. Occasionally they will make lots that meet or exceed Lapua & Norma. It's just not the norm.

the last 2 rifles I had made were chambered around a no turn neck with Lapua brass.

FWIW
Stork

[scb]

I have been wondering why would people purchase such high cost brass such as Lapua , Nosler or even Double Tap that is made by Star Line VS say Remington or Winchester or Federal Brass

Is there a real benefit between the higher cost brass VS average brass?

I had Hart barrel a M700 in 260 Remington so I figured I'd get some good brass to go with it. I bought 100 rounds of Nosler brass. It is without a doubt the best brass I've ever had. The lengths were all +/- .001 as is the case neck wall thickness. The flash holes were all deburred and all the cases weighed with in .1 of a grain. The rifle is more than capable of shooting sub-moa groups.

[JesterGrin_1]

Well I thought I would get some Nosler Brass for my 35 Whelen for special hunting loads is all. I currently have some Remington 35 Whelen brass as well as some converted Remington .270 and 30-06 brass. So overall I am covered for regular brass.

I was just not sure if it would be worth the cost of admission.

[OlManDow]

Weigh ten Lapua cases and note the variation. Weigh ten Winchester cases and note the variation. You will know the answer. That weight variation equates to a difference in internal volume, and consequently to a variation in velocity. At 100 yards, the velocity difference won't much affect group size, but a long range it affects the elevation noticeably.

I actually ran chronograph tests on an M72 30'06 Match load in Winchester cases culled for being way too light, and in cases culled for being way to heavy. The difference in velocity was significant; enough to require several clicks of elevation on my M1 Garand to compensate at 600 yards.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My take on this is you have to go with the brass that is "appropriate" for your gun and your purposes.

If you are a bench rest shooter then Lapua is the best there is .

For my Garand all my .30-06s and Ruger GS77 .308 I use once fired Federal brass. I have 1600 once fired .30-06's and about 400 .308's

In my .308 RGS77 I just shot a 7/8" group with once fired brass and Recycled 147gr bullets so I think that is good enough for that .

For my pistols, I use strictly Winchester for my .40S&W because I buy Winchester factory ammo, and I have seen problems with other brands. They are also the most common by far.

For my .45ACP Glock 21 I use whatever is laying on the range! the .45 ACP cartridge is a relatively low pressure cartridge and I load them on the low end anyway, so any brass is fine.

For my .44 Specials I use some old Winchester cases I've had for 30 years along with some brand new Starline. For the .44 Magnum I use some 30 year old Winchester cases, and if I buy new ones they will be Starline. For straitwall Pistol and Rifle cases I don't think you can beat Starline,and their prices are cheaper than the big names. (goto track of the wolf)

Then I come to my 6.5 Swede which is a target rifle. I have 200 rounds of PMC factory ammo I will shoot then I will reload those until the are used up. Then if I actually can shoot the gun worth a hoot, I will probably buy some Lupua, If I "can't" shoot it that well,,, then it will get whatever is most available and priced right.

I think you have to weigh your type of usage, your expectations, and your abilities against the guns you shoot to determine what level of components and tooling you are buying.

It is pointless to load top drawer components for a gun that is never going to be more accurate than a slingshot. Buy the same token if you can get quite good results in a accurate gun with generic components and those results suit your needs, why look farther. But if you are looking for the ultimate in accuracy for top drawer equipment then basically you have to spend the bucks because everything has to be perfect..

I have a good friend who is one of the top Bench Rest shooters in CA. He actually cleans his 6mm BR cases in a dish with lemishine and a Q-tip! And they are as new at every loading. They are also made by Lapua, and his bullets are Bergers...

Another friend has speed shop here in town. Over his front door is a sign that says "Speed costs money ,,,How fast do you want to go?" That pretty much sums it up.

Randy

[Old Caster]

Standard manufacturer brass can be made as good as the expensive brands however there will be a lot of culls because they aren't all straight and the internal size willl vary making more culls. After culling for problems or variations, they have to have the primer pocket uniformed, the necks turned and then trimmed for length. Turning necks or installing old primers in new cases so they can be filled with water and weighed is not my idea of a fun day so I buy Lapua for guns that it will matter in but still measure necks though there is almost never one that needs the neck trimmed and never one for internal capacity so I never check that. I generally aneal the neck every 5 shots and they last a real long time. For guns it doesn't matter in, it is a waste of money.

[Moonman]

I only load Handguns and I always use Starline Brass.

[EdS]

Just a note to everyone who “knows” that military brass has less internal volume because it is heavier than commercial brass. I once filled 20 each, military LC, and commercial RP, Winchester, and Federal .223 cases with AA 2230 powder, chosen because it flows like water. I weighed the filled cases, the powder that they held and the cases after emptying. The amount of powder that the military LC held had a very low extreme spread and fell near the middle of the average weights of the commercial cases. The weight variation of the brass cases can be due to difference in alloy or even the dimensions of the case head and extraction groove. It's what the case holds that counts. -Ed

[Justinsaneok]

My friend has a Savage .338 lapua He needed to drive out every hornady brass he put in it. Got Lapua brass and never had another problem. The hornady brass was to soft and stuck like chuck in the chamber.

[Frank46]

Back when Weideners was carrying the IMI Israeli brass a lot of the local high power shooters used to swear by it. We'd get 308, 30-06 and 223 in 500 round heavy plastic bags. Never had
a problem with it. Think I still have some IMI 7.62x39 floating around here. Rem brass for the most part for me has been good. Except for some cases that did not have the extraction groove fully machined. From what I remember the groove was too big and had problems closing the bolt. Federal at that time was considered too soft for the M1A shooters and they preferred the lake city match stuff when you could get it. The M72 30-06 match brass and ammo shot very well in my sako 75 in 30-06. Was a snug fit and gave no problems. Most shooters back then did not use winchester brass for much of anything. Lotta 30-30 cases were picked up by yours truely during that time. When RichBug was selling brass I got one of the big boxes of 30-30 brass and have used it and the WW power point in a couple winchesters and found it worked great for me. Frank

[adrians]

the last "high $" brass i got was Norma in 8x57j (not js) and it had kind of a coppery tinge too it.
i am a remchester guy usually but for my older rifles i buy norma ,don't know why! just do and i find it's a little more maluable and i get more reloads before it fails and splits,
annealing helps .:evil::popcorn::evil:

[frankenfab]

+1 on the IMI from Widener's. I bought a whole bunch of .357. .44, and .50AE when they used to sell it. They used to have a lot of once-fired stuff, too. I got 2000 rds. of .454 brass cheap! And some .480 Ruger back then for my buddy.

[garandsrus]

I still have 750 or so pieces of new IMI 30-06 brass in the 500 count plastic bags. I bought it from eBay dor something like $25/bag about 10 years ago. I bought 3 bags and use it as my match brass. They seem to be very good cases that hold up well.

John

[BD]

The two instances where I've found it worthwhile to spend more on brass are the 6.5x55, and the .270 WBY. In both cases the generally available American made brass does not have the correct head diameter resulting in smaller case volume, and in the case of the 6.5x55 this results in an odd bulge in the side of the cases just forward of the case head.
BD

[Sonnypie]

Oh, um, uhh, I don't buy brass.
I have more than enough as it is.
And almost all of it is loaded. ;-) Works betterer that way. :lol:

[9.3X62AL]

Both the 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser and the 9.3 x 62 Mauser use a case head diameter of .480", rather than the generic 30-06 case head diameter of .473". With RCBS shellholders, the #3 for the '06 family won't fit the proper 6.5 or 9.3 rims--gotta use #2. How much difference that makes over the life of a casing I don't know, but it is there and it's discernable.

[Rokkit Syinss]

When I started loading my Swede for Military Bolt Silhouette, I sprung for 100 6.5x55 Lapua cases. The problem with the 6.5x55 brass not made in Europe is that it is all formed from '06 cases, which is close - but just not big enough in diameter, so you end up with a bulge just ahead of the case head. I figure that shooting cast loads in Lapua cases, those 100 will last me many years...

Try Prvi Partizan for the 6.5x55, works great and cheaper than Lapua brass.

[Char-Gar]

It you are shooting for the gold or on a once in a lifetime high dollar hunt, then high end brass makes sense. Otherwise, go with the lower priced stuff.

[shotstring]

Should have bought Lapua in quantity on sale and a few years ago like I did. ;o)
Now I shoot Lapua brass for the price people pay now for the cheap stuff.

Actually, if cheaper brass works, I will use it. The old IMI stuff from the 80's was great and even the six dollar a box IMI 308 loaded ammo would shoot sub minute of angle in a good gun. Give that any day unless I'm shooting competition.
In 458 caliber, I'm stuck with either Hornady or Winchester and I don't think either is too great. As for handgun brass - doesn't make enough difference to spend for accuracy but it does for reliability, and that is pretty much gun and load dependent.

[roysha]

There is an old adage which states, "If you think it helps, it does". I am a firm believer in this philosophy. So if you think spending $2.00 or more, apiece for brass makes you a better shooter, then by all means do so. In 50+ years of shooting, my experience indicates that the case is the lowest member on the totem pole in regard to assembling accurate loads.

Admittedly, the less expensive cases require more prep than perhaps the "premium" cases but since I usually do those kind of things while being dumbed down watching the inane BS on TV, I don't find the prep to be an undue burden.

Case in point is a rifle I built many years ago. It is a 22-308 with a 1-9 twist Shilen Select Match SS barrel. I shoot the Sierra 69 grain bullet and have occasionally kept the 5 shots under 1/4" at 100 yards. Unfortunately, it requires the gods be smiling, or looking the other way or something, because I am really not that good of a shot most of the time. Oh yeah, the brass is RA 70 military brass! Having paid big bucks for premium brass would have been a waste since I cannot do any better.

No, the premium brass would not have allowed me to shoot the small groups more often because when things are going my way, they do, and when not, they don't.

[shovel80]

Sometimes you havn't got a choice! ..Like with 45-120 Brass...And sometimes like with .38 Super +P....Starline Brass is Cheaper than Your Name Brand Factory stuff like Remington/Winchester/Federal!..When you buy it 500 at a time!


Terry

[jwmprock]

Less case prep with the high priced stuff, but I love all the trimming, turning, uniforming, etc. If I were shooting matches and high volumes, I'd go for the good stuff but for my varmint cartridges I can get .25" groups repeatedly with my Shilen barelled tight neck .223AI, 22/250AI and 25/06AI. I end up scrapping about 10% because they are way off on weight or have visible flaws, but that's still a lot cheaper than Lapua.