Need Help on mauser carbine

[tadeus]

I just got a 7 x 57 small ring Mauser 98 carbine, manufactured by DWM Berlin. Has a 19" barrel. While the action is in excellent condition the barrel is very pitted (useless). Originally I was thinking in converting it into a sporter, but I like more the idea to restore it and made a Scout rifle out of it. (The original stock in near perfect condition)

Where can I find a barrel for it (new one)?
what contour would be correct so my gunsmith can duplicate the shape of the original one?

Should I stay whit the 7 x 57 configuration or search for another caliber?

Thanks in advance

[Uncle Grinch]

I like your idea of restoring it, especially with a nice stock. Last time I looked, Numrich had some 17 1/2" small ring Mauser barrels in stock, some with sights, in good condition. Give them a call.

[tadeus]

Thanks I´ll check with them

[tadeus]

UPPSSSSS, No luck with Numrich Barrels sold Out.

Any other suggestions??????????

[725]

I bought a very serviceable barrel for one at a gun show. Do use a barrel / action wrench to take it apart. Lots of Kroil.

[tadeus]

I bought a very serviceable barrel for one at a gun show. Do use a barrel / action wrench to take it apart. Lots of Kroil.

I´ll let that job to my gunsmith. I took the rifle apart, every single part, except for the barrel.

Any other suggestions????

[scrapcan]

I had heard sometime ago that ER Shaw may have done a run of military contour 7x57 and 8x57 barrels. You might give them a call.

Also give Hoosier Gunworks a shout. They may have what you need.

http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/catalog/barrels.html

[Uncle Grinch]

UPPSSSSS, No luck with Numrich Barrels sold Out.

Any other suggestions??????????


Wow... I just bought one last week. Maybe it was their last one!

Try http://www.sporterexpress.com/Barrels

[Multigunner]

I remember seeing German manufacture 19 inch 7mm carbine barrels offered for sale with the notation that these were barrels made as replacements for South American carbines, but these were for large ring Mauser actions.
This was in the late 90's and I think SARCO advertised these.

While one small ring Mauser clone (Serbian?) of the 98A short rifle used a small ring threaded for the same shank as the large ring, these were not considered to be a safe rifle, though the only problems I've heard of were when the action was rebarreled.

The Small Ring 98 actions are a breed apart, and there are variations in shank diameter.
If you can find a copy of the shop manual for rebarreling Mauser actions it gives the specs for the various small ring barrel shanks. Some are mid way between the small ring 93-96 barrel shanks, and others are longer or shorter at the shank.
I was given several hundred photo copied pages of one of these manual years ago, but I haven't been able to find these after several moves.

Some 93-96 barrels can be fitted to some small ring 98 actions with little work, other SR 98 actions require a specialized barrel shank that would require some custom turning and threading. TPI is the same with Whitworth thread pattern, so a larger diameter shank might be turned and thread chased to fit.

PS
Barrel contour is quite different for some of the short barreled Carbines. Some used a tapered barrel much like a sporter contour, others a stepped barrel. My Persian mauser had a barrel that had a shoulder similar to a bottle neck cartridge between rear sight base and stock band.

[JIMinPHX]

Small ring 98? I thought that the 98 was the large ring action. I also thought that 7mm was mostly for the small ring actions & the 98s were generally 8mm. I'm no Mauser expert, but I think that's the way that it usually is.

Midway has some semi-finished A&B small ring replacement barrels for around $100. The bores that I have seen in those have been excellent, but they were not military contour. Midway may also have others in the contour that you are looking for.

[bcp477]

You might also consider a commercial barrel BLANK, by whatever maker. Starting with a heavy blank, your gunsmith can turn it down to exactly copy the dimensions of the original, thread it correctly for your rifle.....and chamber and headspace it perfectly for your action (for best function and accuracy). Since you are having the work done by a smith anyway, may as well do the job right.

[TCLouis]

I just got a 7 x 57 small ring Mauser 98 carbine, manufactured by DWM Berlin. Has a 19" barrel. While the action is in excellent condition the barrel is very pitted (useless). Originally I was thinking in converting it into a sporter, but I like more the idea to restore it and made a Scout rifle out of it. (The original stock in near perfect condition)

Where can I find a barrel for it (new one)?
what contour would be correct so my gunsmith can duplicate the shape of the original one?

Should I stay whit the 7 x 57 configuration or search for another caliber?

Thanks in advance

IF you have a large ring rifle I have one of the 17.5" military 7X57 barrels in the white here someplace.

PM or email

[chboats]

tadeus - you might be supprised at how well that pitted barrel will shoot. I have an Argentine 7.65 mauser carbine that the barrel looks like 100 grit sand paper and is very washed out. I scrubbed it with 0000 steel wool and JB to get it cleaned up. The throat is washed out to .326.. The groove diameter at the muzzle is .316. I shoot Lyman 325470 boolits sized to .325. Had to thin the necks of the brass to .010 in order to chamber the round with that large of boolit. The gun shoots better than I can. With orginal sights I get 2 to 2.5 inches at 100 yds when I do my part.

You never know until you try it.

Carl

[bruce drake]

Small ring 98? I thought that the 98 was the large ring action. I also thought that 7mm was mostly for the small ring actions & the 98s were generally 8mm. I'm no Mauser expert, but I think that's the way that it usually is.

Midway has some semi-finished A&B small ring replacement barrels for around $100. The bores that I have seen in those have been excellent, but they were not military contour. Midway may also have others in the contour that you are looking for.

Model 98's started out as small ring and then progressed to the large ring midway through the first World War. Also a lot of the later Turk Mausers were built with small ring threading but large ring actions because the Turks had tons of small ring 8mm barrels in stock.

The A&B Barrels are good setups to get an action up and running again. Jim is right that they usually aren't military contour but a trip to your local machinist or gunsmith will fix that with some time on a lathe.

Bruce

[JIMinPHX]

Many different barrels can be found here - http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?tabid=8&categoryid=11551&categorystring=649***20766***9144***

For a genuine military barrel, I would call Sarco & see what they can offer - http://www.sarcoinc.com/

[MtGun44]

If you haven't actually cleaned that pitted barrel well (an electro-chemical cleaner is
best, like Foul Out) and trying it with 175 gr RN factory ammo like Federal, you may
be pleasantly surprised at how it works - but recrowing is often needed.

If you can get it to shoot the long 175 Jbullets, then you may be able to get a large
enough cast boolit to work,too.

That said, I have not seen your barrel and perhaps it is beyond salvaging, but I do have
a 95 Mauser with a messed up barrel that looks real bad but shoots really well, like about
1.5-2" at 100 with good jbullet loads and stock sights.

Bill

[Four Fingers of Death]

You could also get it rebored to 8x57. You can't get barrels rebored here anymore, but Ibelieve there are several people in the states that do it.

I'd clean it up as best I could and see how it performs. If no good, I'd sell it off and then buy one with a decent barrel.

I have danced around many, many times trying to get crappy barrels working. I can't be bothered anymore and hang out for ones with good bores. I'd only buy a rifle with a **** barrel if it had some intrinsic value to me, like being an old mate's rifle or had unusual wood or something like that.

Keep the stock and furniture if you restock it. You never know.

By th etime you buy a surplus barrel (if you can in fact buy one), get it fitted, get a stock, fit it, you could buy a decent new rifle and scope package or if you sold it cheap and use the money you were going to spend on it, a really mint milsup and I can assure the feeling a milsup rifle in mint condition is great (I am not concerned with external appreaances, within reason).

[Bret4207]

I 2nd Micks idea of reboring. That would make a nice 8mm or a 35x57.

[Multigunner]

The Model 98 Large Ring military action was a development of a sporting rifle action that came out in 1896.
The familar cock on opening bolt and larger firing pin shroud with plunger latch was the first step, though the sporter used a threaded cocking piece and firing pin rather than the lugged pin of the militay model.
The Large Ring receiver was originally intended to provide a stronger base for an interupted thread takedown barrel. The increased ring diameter and barrel shank allowed a thicker chamber wall, so it was retained as the somewhat higher pressure high velocity loadings were already in the works.

[adrians]

my turk K.kale 8x57 has the s/r thread deal but it's a l/r mauser ,,huh!! :twisted::coffeecom:evil:

[Dutchman]

I just got a 7 x 57 small ring Mauser 98 carbine, manufactured by DWM Berlin. Has a 19" barrel. While the action is in excellent condition the barrel is very pitted (useless). Originally I was thinking in converting it into a sporter, but I like more the idea to restore it and made a Scout rifle out of it. (The original stock in near perfect condition)

Where can I find a barrel for it (new one)?
what contour would be correct so my gunsmith can duplicate the shape of the original one?

Should I stay whit the 7 x 57 configuration or search for another caliber?

Thanks in advance

I'd like to see what the actual ring diameter is. I can't imagine a small ring 7mm DWM. It doesn't ring any bells (but my bell could be stuffed with birds nest...).

There are .308 WCF new barrels in military contour available from Brownell's.

How about pictures!! We need some cheap thrills.

Dutch

[looseprojectile]

Your small ring 98 Kar may be worth several times more as a collector piece than a shooter after you change the barrel.
I have a small ring Kar 98 that someone screwed a 30 caliber machine gun barrel in and chambered it to 30 06. Makes for a questionable strength target rifle.
I figure it is now worth a couple of hundred. If it was still full military it could be worth six to eight times that. Those little carbines have always been very collectable.

Life is good

[Four Fingers of Death]

There are brand new milsup Swedish 6.5x55 Barrels for sale in Australia at the moment. Will they fit?

[tadeus]

What I have (Finally discovered it by searching the INTERNET like a maniac teenager) is a Mexican 1902 or 1910 Mauser Small ring 7 x 57 Carbine. (the barrel is 17.5" not 19" as I say before)

I was thinking of re barreling in 6.5 x 55 mm, but not transforming it in to a sporter. Maybe some kind of scout rifle ( The stock is in very good shape, in fact I am refinishing it right now whit double boiled linseed oil, and its turning great).

Haven't tried the original barrel to look how it shoots.....

[MtGun44]

Some of these barrels require an amazing amount of cleaning before you can get them
to shoot. If you have access to an electrochemical cleaner, these are best, but often require
many sessions as the crud that they lift goops up the liquid fairly quickly and it must be
replaced. Don't give up on the original until you have truly cleaned it to bare steel (this can
take MANY sessions with liquids and bronze brushes) and tried some long 175 RN Hornady
bullets in reloads or Federal factory 175 rn. These long J bullets will often work when nothing
else will in this caliber. I think they have enough contact to still work in marginal rifling.

Bill

[tadeus]

I'd like to see what the actual ring diameter is. I can't imagine a small ring 7mm DWM. It doesn't ring any bells (but my bell could be stuffed with birds nest...).

There are .308 WCF new barrels in military contour available from Brownell's.

How about pictures!! We need some cheap thrills.

Dutch

Dutchman:

Here are the picshttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_138984e70c3f54864a.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2121)

[Dutchman]

Well, it certainly is a small ring 98 action most likely some breed of Kar98a carbine since the rear sight is a carbine configuration.


Dutch

[tadeus]

Well, it certainly is a small ring 98 action most likely some breed of Kar98a carbine since the rear sight is a carbine configuration.


Dutch

What kind of scope mount would fit in it to make it a scout rifle?????

I was thinking on this one:

http://www.opticstore.com/NcStar%20Compact%20Rifle%20Scopes.htm

[Multigunner]

Could this be a 96 or earlier receiver retrofitted with a K98 bolt?
I've seen this done once, a 95 Mauser fitted with a Czech 98 type bolt.

No telling how many variants there really are, since more Mausers were manufactured outside of Germany than inside, and several known modifications of standard Mauser types were done in third world aresenals.

PS
The short ladder rear sight makes this carbine particularly attractive.

Neatest 98 actioned Carbine I've seen was a very short barreled 7.65 Carbine with the short ladder sight. I know it was for a South American buyer, Peru or Paraguay. I think this Carbine had a 15 1/2 " barrel.

[tadeus]

Multigunner:

This particular carbine is Known as the Mexican model of 1902. Its German manufacture 100% (no arsenal rebuild), what I have learn from the internet in the past 2 weeks, since I bought it; is that the small ring action is like the 95, but incorporates the 98 type bolt whit the third lug.

[tadeus]

Would the Barrel from an Oviedo Mauser Action fit in mine???? A friend has the barrel and he is willing to gave it to me at no cost.

[Multigunner]

Multigunner:

This particular carbine is Known as the Mexican model of 1902. Its German manufacture 100% (no arsenal rebuild), what I have learn from the internet in the past 2 weeks, since I bought it; is that the small ring action is like the 95, but incorporates the 98 type bolt whit the third lug.

Cool!!!
A quick look around suggests that a near Identical carbine was manufactured in Austria when German sources couldn't supply enough to meet the need.

I can't say for certain that a 93 small ring barrel will fit, but its certainly worth looking into.
The thread pattern should be the same, but the length of the shank is not always the same with Mausers of the same shank diameter, either large ring or small ring.

I wish I knew where those pages were, they had the thread and shank length specs for just about every variation.

Mausers used the Whitworth Thread similar to that used by the Enfield and the Arisaka.
U S made replacement barrels usually used an American Standard V thread, which was close enough that it worked okay.

Whatever barrel you use I'd have the outside turned to match the original and mount that original ladder sight on it.

You never can tell about parts for these old war horses, there may be original replacement barrels squirreled away somewhere yet.

[Dutchman]

There is no scope mount that will fit on this particular carbine. It'll require a custom manufactured mount. The rear sight base is like the 1891 Argentine Mauser. The length of the rear sight base doesn't allow for much stability especially for scopes like I normally use the NcStar 2-7x32 steel tube handgun scope. Fairly heavy. There are some early Tasco 1" handgun scopes in 2x to 4x size. I have one that is 3x28 and quite light weight but no longer in production.

I couldn't make a mount without having this carbine in my hands. This type of rear sight base requires close tolerances in order to provide adequate anchoring. You just can't make a generic mount and hope it's machined close enough. I'm sure the recoil is fairly stout with this little guy. Whatever you come up with look into the older Tasco aluminum handgun scopes.

Being a Mexican military long arm helps explain the condition. I thought it was rather ragged. Very few firearms make it out of Mexico intact. They get used/abused to death.

This is the 1891 Argentine rifle with one of my former* mounts. Note how long the rear sight base is compared with your Mex carbine. That NcStar steel tube scope is heavy. The inertia under recoil is substantial with this weight scope which is why I suggest you avoid the NcStar handgun scopes for your application. I make all my mounts for the NcStar 2-7x32 handgun scope because it's the most economical and widely used for this type of application. But not for your Mex carbine. I also don't make a mount for the 91 Argentine for the same reason (or the 94 Swede carbine). The mount is so short it exacerbates recoil forces

*I say "former" because I'm not going to make any more of this particular design. Instead I came up with a lower design for the 91 rifle that will be one piece steel. How much lower? 1/4" to 5/16" or so. That makes a lot of difference with the military buttstock comb geometry.

http://images41.fotki.com/v209/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF1411yy-vi.jpg

This is the little Tasco 3x28 aluminum scope. It really is much smaller and way lighter weight than the NcStar scopes. This is the kind of scope you'd need to use for any "carbine" LER scope mount.

http://images20.fotki.com/v533/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF1381yy-vi.jpg

Here's my former 91 Argentine carbine. Rear sight looks the same. Notice the old grease in the rear sight. That old carbine was very nice, unrebuilt and still had storage grease in it. It was freshly imported from Argentina by JLD and I bought it from them. Ludwig Loewe.

http://images26.fotki.com/v941/photos/2/28344/157842/z6-vi.jpg

The Mexican 1902 carbine wasn't at all like the 1891 Argentine. The Mexican carbine was very much as the 1895 Chilean carbine and some versions of the 1893 Spanish. They were not full stocked like the 91 or 94 Swede carbines. The Mexican 1895 carbine was also of this alternate carbine style.
http://images23.fotki.com/v871/photos/2/28344/157842/z1-vi.jpg

[tadeus]

Thanks for the information guys.

So.....were I can find drawings to make a custom mount to put some pistol scope on it?????

The Oviedo Barrel should arrive next week, I´ll see if it fits.........if not I´ll have an interesting paper weight to impress my visitors.

[725]

tadeus,
If you end up leaving it as a 7mm, there is a group buy coming together for a 7mm Loverin design boolit that might might suit your rifle. I have a 7 x 57 that I'm hoping to use that boolit in. FYI

[junkbug]

Mexican carbines like that are few, and far between, and bring a premium to those who are looking for them.

You would be money ahead looking for a different rifle to cannabalize. There are lots of inexpensive VZ24 actions out there.

Its your rifle, but you may want to research what its worth, before you begin altering it.

I also have found that just because bores look bad, doesn't always mean they will shoot bad. If it were minr, I would want to shoot it just to see.

[shastaboat]

Gun Parts USA has 17.5" 7x57 barrels in good shape. Price is $48.60. If you contact them, they may cherrypick you one.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=1341960&filter=7x57+barrel&catid=0

[tadeus]

Gun Parts USA has 17.5" 7x57 barrels in good shape. Price is $48.60. If you contact them, they may cherrypick you one.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=1341960&filter=7x57+barrel&catid=0

I´ll Check with them right away.


One question: Isn't this barrel the same as the Oviedo???? If so, I´ll be getting one for free next week.

And yes, the idea is to put the rifle back on its trails as original as possible. I don´t want to cannibalize it. There is probably another Mauser (exactly as this one) coming soon. When it arrives I should make the decision of which one stays original (maybe both) or which one be sporterized (maybe).

[mroliver77]

I have a Peruvian Mauser. It is worth $500. + from what I see on the internet. If I mess with it I can make it into a $200 or less sporter very fast!

Even refinishing the stocks on some of these unique pieces can spoil the collector value. It looks like your carbine is a neat piece. I would do nothing but clean, oil and work on that bore until I had plenty of time to research it and see what parts are available. Many a fellow has looked back and asked "Why did I do that?".

tc louis (above post)said he has a 17.5" barrel also.
Jay

[tadeus]

The Oviedo Barrel arrived yesterday...........................it´s uglier than mine!!!!!!! I´ll try Numrich.