comparison of 150-grain .30/30 bullets (hunting)

[TasunkaWitko]

in a year or two, i'll be casting my own. until then, i'm finding it hard to decide between flat or blunt round-nose, remington, winchester, hornady, sierra, speer, you name it.....

until hornady sells their "leverevolution" bullet as a reloading component, i'm looking for a 150-grain .30/30 bullet that performs well on game. i suppose that they're all "pretty darn close," but has anyone used anything that really stood out?

[Bret4207]

RCBS 180FN. Oh! you mean a condum bullet as opposed to a boolit. 170 Gr Remington Core Lockt, or better a Winchester Silver Tip if you can find any. 150 should be about the same, but I like 170's better.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm not sure a premium bullet is required for deer hunting with a 30-30. The velocity range these bullets operate within lends itself to good controlled expansion with simple "cup-and-core" j-words. More than one writer has stated that you don't need more than 150 grains of lead in a 30 caliber to harvest a deer, and there is some validity to that belief.

Bret's recommendations are sound, and Nosler makes a 170 grain Partition as well. If a larger deer--or elk--or moose--or black bear might wander through your hunting area--the heavier 170's in a premium format might be on the agenda. The 30-30 is not the best device for these larger critters, but they will do the job if the hunter does his/hers. Finally--the 190 grain softpoints in the 303 Savage had a great reputation as a woods hunting cartridge before the world became enamored with belted magnums and burned throats in their hunting arms.

Every deer I've ever shot could have been taken with a 30-30, and 3 of them actually were (Sierra 150 flatnoses, FWIW). My next 30 caliber mold will be a Lyman #311041, which was purpose-designed for the 30-30, I believe.

[TasunkaWitko]

yep, there's no problem at all with the 150 grain bullet for deer. i've shot one with that weight bullet, my oldest son has shot two and my 3rd son shot his first deer with one this year. all dropped with one shot, all died just fine. ranges varied from 40 yards to around 200, and in all cases the bullets killed just fine.

these were with rem and win standard bullets. i really doubt that a premium bullet would be necessary to kill a deer, and i have no plans to hunt larger game with the .30/30. my question was more along the lines of comparing the various "standard" bullets. hornady, sierra, speer, rem, win and whatever federal is using these days - stuff like that. figured a comparison might show something interesting; but then again, i guess we're only talking about the ol' .30/30, right? (insert evil grin here)

[NickSS]

I have used Remington Core loke, Winchester Silver tips, Speer, Sierra and hornady bullets. They all shoot good in my rifles. As for killing power I do not remenber which bullets I used for what deer but I have killed 9 deer with a 30-30 over the years. The only one that I really remember was shot with a Winchester HP 150 gr slug that I found on the back shelf of a gun shop in Maine. That was the only time I ever saw that bullet and it was a real killer. I Shot a white tail buck with it at about 50 yards and it droped like it was electocuted on the spot. When I opened the deer up the lungs were homogenized and the bullet was completely fragmented. That slug would have made for a long chase if it hit a rib on entry as it expanded too well.

[carpetman]

I use 150 grain jacketed in .30 cal. This would be mostly 30-06 and .308. I have never taken a deer with a 30-30. Thinking back on the people I have hunted with,very few reload. I'd suspect that for most,fewer hunting partners reload than those that do. What do most non reloaders use? The cheaper stuff from Wal Mart. Premium bullets are pretty much used by reloaders. Who is apt to shoot more and practice more,a reloader or a non reloader? Do non reloaders get deer? I read all time that a .243 is marginal at best on deer and if used premium bullets MUST be used. Luckily,I only hunt ilitterate deer that have not read that. The cheaper Winchester bulk packed bullets work fine on them.

[9.3X62AL]

To re-hash my above text a little......I think the real key to the 30-30's long popularity is the blend of light recoil--light platform weight--sufficient accuracy for its venue--and the good match of late 19th Century bullet construction to the velocity range the bullets are propelled to. The system just plain works.

I would be interested in hearing how cast boolit loads using Lyman #311041 or similar flat-pointed designs perform on deer.

[versifier]

Sierra 150grFN. Does the job wonderfully. So does their 125grFNHP and it gives you an extra 50yds or so. You can get good .30cal cast FN's from Bullshop until you get set up to cast your own. Anything from soupcans through 180FNs will work with the .30-30. I'm partial to 150's myself. I find them more accurate (so far) and the flatter trajectory doesn't hurt.

[mtngunr]

The difference in drop between a JFP/ and a spitzer at 250yds when started with identical powder charges would be about 1.25", with the spitzer arriving about 125fps faster....Brian Pearce did a write up about such in the last Handloader or Rifle....what was real suprising was that the JFP's held tighter groups out past 100yds....so, don't look for me to be buying any wonder bullets for a .30-30....when you are looking at those great flat shooting stats for the wonder bullet, notice what the zero is and then check out the same trajectories for standard bullets when zeroed comparably...as for jacketed bullets, as others have said, the old standards work just fine, Silvertips, CoreLokts, Powerpoints, Speer HotCor at .30-30 velocities....and I wouldn't use anything heavier than 150 for deer as they don't provide enough resistance to 170's to get the expansion you want....maybe 170's closer in for larger critters like moose and elk....no, I am not touting the .30-30 as optimum for the latter, but enough have fallen to it and cleanly when used by careful shots and stalkers....even up to grizzly.....that's just history.....

[TasunkaWitko]

thanks for the replies so far, guys, they pretty much reinforce what i've seen for myself: the 150-grn bullet out of a .30/30 is just fine for deer. i've seen for myself that it works very well at least out to 200 yards. my feeling is that if the deer is farther out than 200 yards, then you can probably get closer.

with that in mind, it looks as though i can buy the corelokts and power points with just as much confidence as i could the hot-cores, pro-hunters and interlocks. i am a big fan of the old win silvertip, but they seem to be rather unavailable these days.

having said that, i eagerly await the hornady leverevolutions to come out as a component. these bulelts look like they just might change a few things considerably.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Don't forget the Barnes, they make a 30-30 bullet in 160 or 165 grain don't they? That should be a good unit.

[mtngunr]

having said that, i eagerly await the hornady leverevolutions to come out as a component. these bulelts look like they just might change a few things considerably.

I don't think so, Tim......not at standard .30-30 velocities, anyhow.....

[hydraulic]

I have a friend who operates a buffalo range on his ranch. Got a call from a guy who wanted to buy a buffalo for his dear old dad, 85, who always wanted to hunt buffalo. They drive up and stop at Walmart and buy a .30-30 and a box of shells and show up at the ranch. Rancher gets the old guy in the pickup and drives him up to a big bull, loads the rifle for him, the old gent sticks it out the window and the rancher looks over his shoulder and when he gets the rifle pointed in the direction of the bison, rancher says "shoot!". Bullet hits buffalo in the spine, drops dead. Everybody is happy. Dad and son go home and put the rifle in the closet, only shot once. Next week a customer shoots a bull with a .45-100 Shiloh through the lungs, FOUR TIMES, buffalo runs down to the farm pond, jumps in and dies in four feet of water. John Deere, log chains and hip boots.

[shooterman]

a story of interest. my friend wanted to go deer hunting with a 22/250 and made some ballistic gelatin from a recipe on the net. he made 2 blocks about 12 x12 and 16 in. deep. after shooting the first block with great satifaction, he asked if i would like to shoot the other. the only gun i had was my 30/30 with rcbs 150 gr cast fp cast from ww and 24 gr of 3031. the boolit penetrated completely and i could not recover the boolit. it also completely ripped the block in half. the impact was impressive. the block was approx 50 yards away. without the slightest hesitation, i harvested a nice blacktail the same year with the same load. both lungs and the heart and the buck fell over after about a 30 yard run.

[JDL]

To re-hash my above text a little......I think the real key to the 30-30's long popularity is the blend of light recoil--light platform weight--sufficient accuracy for its venue--and the good match of late 19th Century bullet construction to the velocity range the bullets are propelled to. The system just plain works.

I would be interested in hearing how cast boolit loads using Lyman #311041 or similar flat-pointed designs perform on deer.

Deputy Al, I have used the 31141 on deer and have found it to be quite ample with shot placement just behind the shoulder. Deer was about 50 yards away in classic broadside position and ran 40-50 yards before piling up. The lungs sustained damage 2"-2.5" in diameter and exit was 2". Velocity at the muzzle was running a little over 2000 fps and the alloy was 15 bhn. -JDL

[Forester]

I tried a wide variety of j-word bullets in my 30-30 and settled on the Hornady interlock 170gr FP. for whatever reason the heavier bullets seemed to shoot better from my gun than the lighter ones. If a 150gr would shoot for me in my gun, I wouldn't have any problem at all using it on deer.

I killed two deer this year within 15 minutes of each other with the little model 94 and the Hornady bullet over 36.5gr of Win 748. One shot was at about 70 yards, and the other about 40. Both shots went all the way through and neither deer ran more than 15 yards.

All that said, I am trying out a 31141 mould now and can't wait for next deer season to see how they do.:Fire:

FWIW, I must be the exception because Hornady's expensive LeverRevolution ammo wouldnt shoot anywhere near as well as cheap(for factory ammo) winchester silvertip or softpoint. In the 30-30 loads it is not all that much faster either.

[corvette8n]

Tas:
Midway has the two cavity Lee 309-150 fn gc for $18.69
I have the one cavity version of above.
I bought a Lee pot for $20.00 and a ladle for a few bucks.
A friend gave me some WW and I was in business.
I did buy 1000 gas checks for about $15.00. I use 8.0 gr of Unique
for a plinking load in all 4 of my lever guns.(Two Marlins 2 Win 94)
I havent loaded any full house loads for deer yet, but might try some next season. My son and future son in law both like to plink away at the range.
I hang two targets on one stand, one shoots at the left the other at the right,
so they have a little competition. They can shoot all day cause dad supplies the ammo.
BTW we shoot at the 50 yard range, pick up all our brass go home and start loading all over again.

:castmine:

[9.3X62AL]

JDL--thanks for the insights, sir. I was thinking of doing a little of the "Bruce B Softpointing" with the #311041 after it arrives, dunno how those noses would take to lube/sizer force, though.

[TasunkaWitko]

thaks for the replies -

i'm about halfway set up for cast and will be all the way set up ahead of schedule. i really just need to get a pot, a 150-grn mold (i've got a 113 and a 170) and a ladle, and i'll be in business. i do have about 40 lbs of lead, but need to find more!

one obstacle i am running into is this business of sizing the boolits. it seems to widely recommended that i size them rather than shoot them as cast. a buddy sent instructions and a slug for measuring the bore. unfortunately, these wetre lost in a series of moves. when i get the items listed above, i might be asking for assistance with this.

if anyone has an old lee production pot that they want to get rid of, let me know and maybe we can make a deal. i should have the mold in a month or two, depending on finances.

[Char-Gar]

When it comes to shooting deer with the 30-30 I don't think there is much difference between factory loads. Some folks swear by one, others by another and still more by something difference.

I have taken several deer with the 170 Silvertip with total satisfaction.

There might be some slight difference in bullets, but not enough to make the difference between a dead deer and one that is still running. Providing, of course, the bullet is placed into the right spot. No bullet will compensate for a poor hit.

[mtngunr]

Sizing and slugging is simple.....a greased lead fishing sinker can be driven down the bore, or a lead round ball slightly flattened with a hammer can be used, or a SOFT lead bullet.....sizing can be as simple as a $15 Lee sizing die which screws into your press with the bullets pan-lubed or even hand-lubed.....

[piwo]

in a year or two, i'll be casting my own. until then, i'm finding it hard to decide between flat or blunt round-nose, remington, winchester, hornady, sierra, speer, you name it.....

until hornady sells their "leverevolution" bullet as a reloading component, i'm looking for a 150-grain .30/30 bullet that performs well on game. i suppose that they're all "pretty darn close," but has anyone used anything that really stood out?

CrazyHorse,
Where are you located.

[9.3X62AL]

T W--

Which rifle(s) IN 30-30 caliber will you be casting boolits for? Marlin or Winchester or ? Microgroove or conventional rifling? My Winchester 94 has a .3095" throat and gets .310" boolits. Some folks use FAT boolits in Microgrooves, and get fine results--MG's can shoot cast boolits VERY WELL. E.G., I have a Marlin Model 62 in 30 Carbine that shoots Lee Soup Cans (113 round flat nose gas check) at .311" BETTER than it shoots jacketed bullets--and at similar velocities.

[Bret4207]

I think Chargar hit the nail on the head. Shot placement. A deer killed with a neck shot with a 32WCF is just as dead as the same shot made with a 325WSSMTacticalExtremeGildedTrophyBondedPartitionA FrameHotCorSafariExtremeDepletedUnobtainium bullet. My son took his first 3 deer with 1 heart shot each. He'd spent time shooting and stalked close. This was out of a 250 Savage. This year Sir Whines A Lot used Dad's 35 Whelen and a 30-30. Missed one with the 35 at what must have been 250+ yards. Nicked another with the 30-30 at 150 yards plus. I opined that if he'd practiced with the 35 or 30-30 or used his 250 Sav that he knew inside and out he'd have done better. But he insisted it was the low power scope on the 35 (K1.5) and the open sights on the 30-30. I told him he couldn't shoot worth a hoot and the "discussion" degraded from there.

I wandered a bit, but my point was the "heart shot" is great if the heart happens to lie where the shooter is aiming. Sonnyboy took heart shots when he'd have done better holding for a shoulder shot (yeah, we'd loose a little meat- but we'd not have a wounded deer) instead of the heart shot. Break the shoulders and your deer isn't going anywhere, ever. Yup, you might have to finish him off, but the coyotes ain't gonna get him either.

BTW- As long as my son's buddies tell him you gotta take a heart shot, my advice will fall on deaf ears. Pixxes me off big time. Plus, he leaves his/my brass in the woods. Poor genes from his mothers side of the tree I imagine.

[MT Gianni]

Bret, of the deer my son shot this year we lost some meat but his went down and didn't move. Mine were neck shot and lung shot, one went 40 yds one didn't. When the USAF turned him out with cuffs, beretta and anything else he wanted to carry doing his base checks, I told him if he had to shoot not to expect things to go down with a shoulder hit. They do learn and mature yet everyones curve is different. Gianni.

[TasunkaWitko]

CrazyHorse,
Where are you located.

hi, piwo -

i grew up in chinook, montana, which is in the north-central part of the state about 35 miles south of canada. after moving around a bit, i came back home and am glad to be here!:drinks:

[TasunkaWitko]

deputy al -

i'm shooting a newer (1999 or 2000?) marlin m336CS. wonderful rifle with good walnut and pretty darn good accuracy. it does of course have the microgroove rifling, but my understanding is that gas checks, proper sizing and a fairly-hard alloy will produce very good accuracy.

[TasunkaWitko]

bret -

if i may be bold enough to offer an opinion, i think your boy's intentions were in the right place. we all need a few years to gain experience in dealing with individual situations, and i am sure you know that as a rule, we tend to "let the training take over" in situations where we're lacking in said experience.

for instance, my own experience has told me that if a person waits a few moments before shooting, a deer will almost always sooner or later offer a wonderful, standing broadside shot. not every time, but enough that it is, to me, worth waiting for. there's always time for "plan B."

on the other hand, i know what you mean about stubborn sons. i've got four and two of them are teenagers. when it comes to most things, they simply don't want to listen to "the old man." i guess you and i simply aren't "cool" enough for our boys to take our advice seriously!

it must be a teenage thing. my third son, age 12, took his first deer this year just a few bare seconds after i got mine. we had spotted a group of muleys lying down on the side of a coulee and planned it out. since they were all lying down in the brush, i told him that i would attempt a head shot (not my first choice, but it was the only one offered and my confidence in my rifle was high). i told him that when the deer heard the shot, they would all stand up and look around for a moment. i told him to pick the biggest one in the group and put one in the boiler room. the plan unfolded exactly as we had intended and within seconds we each had deer from a little over 200 yards away. the rifle he was using? the marlin .30/30 mentioned above.

had i been with of my older boys, they would have thought, "the old fool is crazy!" and probably would have blasted away and missed, with no deer to show for it.

what's a dad to do?

[Bret4207]

Well, I know what you mean. Why can't he be more like I was at his age. I was BRILLIANT! My Dad never needed to tell me anything 'cuz I knew it all!

Yup. I know he'll grow out of it. Patience ain't my strong suit.

[PatMarlin]

My 336 micro goove shoots the original fat-30 under an 1" at 50 with a lyman tang sight.