Need some guidance for 38 Special

[mleeber]

Afternoon and happy Labor Day! I am going to start casting for my 38 Special carry guns (already cast for 45/70 and 45ACP) and need some guidance. I will be casting with WW lead that has been made to approximate Lyman with the addition of 50/50 bar solder. While most activity will be plinking, if bullet performance is good or I am in a bind on factory ammo these may well be used in carry ammo. I am leaning towards a 158 grain bullet with maybe a 125 grain choice as well. The question I have is which profile is best for personal defense? There are no hollow point molds out there that I have found, that would have been my first choice. These are all 2" guns so the powder will be fast and I will be loading at the top of standard 38 pressures or just at the bottom of +P.

Thanks!
Mark

[357shooter]

The NOE 358429 HP mould fits the bill. It drops at 158 grains with soft alloy. I load it over 5.0 grains of Unique, which is a classic load from the experienced guys at this site. It's a great performer in a snubnose. I cast mine with pure lead and 2% tin.

Look at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=91999&highlight=NOE+358429&page=4

Keep an eye out for another group buy, or maybe Swede has some available.

There is a NOE group buy for a 150 grain bullet underway, it might work.

However the 358429 (bullets pictured below) is worth hunting down or waiting for.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/358429168GrSWC.jpg

[mleeber]

That is exactly what I am looking for! Thanks!!! I will IM Swede.

[Hurricane]

mleeber,

If you want the NOE 358429 mold I have one of the RG2 modles I am willing to sell. It is lightly used for about 300 bullets, half with HP and half with flat solid nose. RG stands for Rube Goldberg, a comic strip about a man that made complicated inventions. The 2 stands for two cavities in the mold. This mold is a modified Cramer style mold whicn means the hollow point pins stay in the mold when you open it and the bullet falls out when you hold the mold upside down. It can be very fast once you get used to it. If you are interested send me a PM and I will send you the details. It comes with both HP and Flat nose pins and I will throw in two pair of blank pins that you could have made into custom pins in the future.

Hurricane

[MakeMineA10mm]

Another option is to look for a nice, but used (cheaper) Lyman mould for a 158gr SWC and send it to Buckshot to have it Hollow-pointed:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=90&pictureid=449

He made me four different pins to experiment with. This allows us to adjust cavities to match alloys and velocities, so that, in theory, I could use soft alloy at low velocity with a BIG HP for a 38 snub load, or a smaller cavity with a harder alloy for the 357:

Winchester Concave:
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=90&pictureid=448

Cup point:
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=90&pictureid=447

Lyman duplicate:
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=90&pictureid=446

Big Ben HP (w/ MMA point):
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=90&pictureid=445

:Fire:

[Bret4207]

I use the standard 358477 solid over 5.0 Unique. Works for me.

[MGySgt]

Bret - I had Buckshot HP a SC 358477 for me (I have another SC and a 2C and 2 4C 358477)

That is one big HP. Dropped the weight to 133 grains. I load it over BE and load it max.

I used BE over Unique becasue of the muzzel flash after dark. You might want to try some BE due to the much smaller muzzel flash. With Unique I could only see an orange ball for about a minute, the BE had a smaller orange ball and my vision came back much quicker.

Yea I know - make the first shot count and you don't have to worry about follow ups. But what if there are 2 perp's?

Just my 2 cents worth

[Bret4207]

Top, my 477 is a 4 banger. Should I ever run onto a SC I might just take your advice. Nice little boolit that 477.

[beagle]

I'll second the 358477. Great bullet for all around use and a HP is better.

I love the 358429HP (or 358439) but you can get in trouble OAL wise in a Marlin M1894 .357 Carbine and I'm feeding both./beagle

[Char-Gar]

If I understand your post, you alloy is supposed to duplicate Lyman No. 2? If that is correct, such a HP bullet fired from a 38 Special at any reasonable pressure won't expand no matter what kind of cavity it has.

If you are expecting for any expansion, cut the wheelweight with pure lead (50/50) and hope for the best.

[MGySgt]

I made my alloy 35 to 1 (was trying for 40 to 1 and screwed something up). They do expand at 850FPS out of my Ruger LCR.

Yes it is only a SC and has the removable pin - SLOW but fast enough to create a few hundred to keep me in carry ammo for awhile.

[beladran]

I shoot between 10-15,000 rounds of 38special every year between matches an practice.. I really like my Mihec HP mold. My special HP alloy I been tinkering with is 95 lead an 5 tin.. expands nicely. I found my hardball alloy usually broke into 4 chunks. Now they expand out to almost to .75 an stay intact

[MtGun44]

358477 is a wonderful mold, accurate design - at least in the early 150 gr version, I have
no experience with the later 158 gr version. This is almost a clone of the RCBS 38-150-SWC,
which used to be called 38-150-K. These will work well even if not HP'ed, but HPing may be
a big benefit for SD applications.

My personal favorite boolit in the .38 Spl for self defense is the 358429 HP loaded over
5.0 Unique. I have had some great results in the expansion dept with this load fired into
wet phone books, plus it is accurate and shoots to POA for my J-frame S&W ultra-light
revolver. I had severe trouble getting mine to shoot any of the factory 'self defense loads'
to POA and with great accy.

Bill

[MakeMineA10mm]

If I understand your post, you alloy is supposed to duplicate Lyman No. 2? If that is correct, such a HP bullet fired from a 38 Special at any reasonable pressure won't expand no matter what kind of cavity it has.

If you are expecting for any expansion, cut the wheelweight with pure lead (50/50) and hope for the best.


I made my alloy 35 to 1 (was trying for 40 to 1 and screwed something up). They do expand at 850FPS out of my Ruger LCR.

Yes it is only a SC and has the removable pin - SLOW but fast enough to create a few hundred to keep me in carry ammo for awhile.

These two guys are right on. I use 20 lbs WW and 55 lbs pure lead, plus a 1-lb bar of tin (in a 76-lb pot of alloy) added for sharper casting. These expand very well, but you also must consider the HP cavity and velocity you are shooting at. Haven't had a chance to test all my permutations shown above, but I'm sticking with that one alloy for now, and trying all four different HP cavities, and then I'm going to load each at a different velocity (about 100fps apart), and test in gelatin to compare the differences. If only work didn't get in the way of this fun stuff....

[Centaur 1]

My opinion for what it's worth. With such a short barrel I would opt for a light boolit with a flat nose, and use a fast powder like bullseye. I'd go for something like the Lee 125 grain RF mold.

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/MOLD-DC-358-125-RF.html

[Tim357]

Centaur, 30 years ago, Handloader magazine had an article re: handloads for short-barrelled revolvers. The findings were BE was a poor choice for decent velocity in a .357Mag. Unique was the fastest powder that gave satisfactory velocities. One caveat, the projectiles were jacketed. The weight ranged from 110 to 160 grains. What the author found out was even H110/ W296 had significantly higher velocities than BE, even in a 2.5" bbl.

[MtGun44]

How about this for a short barreled .38 Spl?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=3952

Ballistic gelatin will give very close to double the penetration, so about 9" with essentially
identical expansion. Ballistic gel penetration is to the front of the boolit, I measure mine
by putting a rod down the hole, so am measuring to the back end.

Bill

[fecmech]

My opinion for what it's worth. With such a short barrel I would opt for a light boolit with a flat nose, and use a fast powder like bullseye. I'd go for something like the Lee 125 grain RF mold.

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/MOLD-DC-358-125-RF.html

Whatever gives the fastest velocity out of a 6" barrel gives the fastest velocity out of a 2" barrel. Max loads of 296/H110, lil gun, 2400 in a 2" .357 will beat a max load of Bullseye for velocity anytime. With .38 spl pressure limitations Unique does a pretty good job as the slow burners don't get to their optimum pressure range in that cartridge.

[StrawHat]

I find that a double ended wadcutter is about perfect for the all round 38 Special boolit. Mine come from a pair of Lee 2 cavity molds but the six cavity mold is a better choice. You can vary the load to suit your purpose and the full caliber meplat does a great job anchoring game. I tend to use it as my one boolit in 38 Special.

[Will]

358462 + 5gr unique = big nose and near max load.

[Will]

sorry typo should be 358432

[MGySgt]

Remember Muzzel FLASH - BE gives the smallest ball of flame after dark. Try one of those 2400 loads at say 10PM and see how long it takes for your eye sight to come back.

Hint, Unique is almost as bad.

Test, Test and Re-Test

Been there, done that and settled on BE.

[9.3X62AL]

Some interesting commentary on factors I generally don't pay much attention to. Thanks, guys.

I am a long-time user of Lyman #358477, some 30 years now. It was among the first moulds I found when I started casting. I'm not a hollow-point caster, though.

My most recent usage of the "477" involves a NICE little Colt Police Positive in 38 S&W. 477 run at 700-725 FPS shoots right to its sights at 25 yards, and I couldn't ask for better work on small varmints and rats. Anchors 'em right now, without shredding them. If I hunted cottontails, it would be a natural for the quarry.