240 gr 30-06 CB loads

[afrance]

I just got the CBE 316-240 mold and am having trouble finding good starting data for the powders I have. Does anyone have 240 gr (or 250 gr), 30-06 data using Red Dot, AA5744, Varget or Reloder 22?

I figure with so many about to get the NOE 247 gr .311 there will be a lot of people looking for safe starting loads.

Alan

[USSR]

Alan,

Got the following load data for the NOE 247gr .311 bullet from a member here who has Quick Load:


...for a 30-06 with a 22" barrel 40.5 grs of RL22 would get 1602 fps. 45.0 grs will get 1803 fps.

Hope that helps.

Don

[afrance]

Thank you Don. Those velocities would be what I am looking for initially.

I wonder if that would be considered getting into Secondary Explosion Effect (SEE) territory or not. I have not heard of RL-22 in reduced charges causing SEE but it would be a slow powder with a reduced charge.

[Rico1950]

Alliant also put out a WARNING a while back on a particular Lot of REL 22. I'd check their site for the LOT #.

[Ben]

afrance

If you use reloading data for the 311284 ( and there is plenty for that bullet ),& If you
use the suggested starting data and drop that by 10% , you should be safe
with your 240 - 250 gr. bullets. You can " inch up " from there once you get started
with a nice, stable, safe load.

I realize that 2400 isn't in your list of powders ( it probably should be.......)
I'd probably start with 14.5 grs. of 2400 with that bullet if I were testing the 250 gr. bullet.

Ben

[afrance]

Thanks Rico1950, I had checked mine a couple year's back when that recall came out and it doesn't look like a newer one has been issued.

Ben,

That helps quite a bit as I have a Lyman 47 with 311284 loads. With this bullet (nose is just under .303) it does lightly engrave the rifling when chambered and I have seen several places where you recommend that. With the engraving like the picture below, would you think a 10% reduction is enough or change that?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_23654e660a92d5a54.jpg ('http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2044')

While there is slight resistance to push the bolt home I can easily cycle the bolt and unload the cartridge without it sticking in the barrel. And yes, this probably will be the boolit that causes me to finally add 2400 to my collection.

Thanks again!

[Ben]

afrance

That light engraving of the nose will have little impact on pressures. Yes, I still think that 10% below the 311284 starting data will be fine. That is exactly where I'd start things.

That's a mean looking chunk of lead. You planning on shooting completely through something, Uhhh ?

I hope that you won't experience stability issues with that bullet ? ?

That bullet weight would probably work even better with a 1-9 twist , 30 cal. barrel ( although I don't think I've ever seen one ). The great majority of 30-06 barrels are 1-10 twist, and your bullet may shoot just fine in a 1-10 twist barrel,.......... I don't know ?

Ben

[afrance]

I am hoping it will stabilize fine in the 10" twist but won't know for sure till I get some down range. I took a chance on it because I saw JeffinNZ's post that said it was 1.25" before sizing. When sized to .311 it is 1.265 which is what many 180 gr j-words are, so I figured that over 1400 fps I am fine.

I am hoping I lucked out on the slower speeds because as near as I can tell checked and lubed, this boolit is perfectly or nearly perfectly balanced 50/50 with its length. I have heard and read that the more balanced the bullet the better it stabilizes with slower twists. Hopefully I will get to the range soon and find out but regardless it should stop a hog in its tracks.

They do kind of tower over the LEE 200 gr...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/23654e66d26905d6b.jpg

[madsenshooter]

Thank you Don. Those velocities would be what I am looking for initially.

I wonder if that would be considered getting into Secondary Explosion Effect (SEE) territory or not. I have not heard of RL-22 in reduced charges causing SEE but it would be a slow powder with a reduced charge.

You're not likely to get a SEE with a cast bullet. Though some want to use the term for any pressure excursion. The cause of the phenomena was traced to jacketed loads in a long throat. The bullet would stop for a bit, acting like an obstruction and with some light charges of slow powders raising pressures beyond what the rifle could handle before taking off again. We can't cast anything hard enough to do that.

Swede estimated 1600fps, (Quickload) with the NOE 247 using a caseful of that nice cheap 50BMG powder in my Krag. I hope I can make the nose cast just a tiny bit bigger, though I do have one Krag barrel it'll work in if I can't.

[Ben]

I am hoping it will stabilize fine in the 10" twist but won't know for sure till I get some down range. I took a chance on it because I saw JeffinNZ's post that said it was 1.25" before sizing. When sized to .311 it is 1.265 which is what many 180 gr j-words are, so I figured that over 1400 fps I am fine.

I am hoping I lucked out on the slower speeds because as near as I can tell checked and lubed, this boolit is perfectly or nearly perfectly balanced 50/50 with its length. I have heard and read that the more balanced the bullet the better it stabilizes with slower twists. Hopefully I will get to the range soon and find out but regardless it should stop a hog in its tracks.

They do kind of tower over the LEE 200 gr...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/23654e66d26905d6b.jpg



Keep us posted with a range report and hopefully a few pics of your targets, load data, etc.

Thanks,

Ben

[afrance]

Will do, thanks guys.

Here are recommendations from Accurate.

Caliber: .30-06 Springfield.

Barrel length: 24"

Powder: Accurate - 5744(r).

Bullet weight: 240 grains.

Subsonic load: 16.5grains (ca 1100 Fps)

Low load: 21.0 grains (ca 1575 Fps)

Midrange load: 25.5 grains (ca 1775 Fps)

Maximum load: 30.0 grains (ca 1950 Fps)

All normal precautions apply

[afrance]

Got to the range to test the CBE 240 gr in 30-06. The constants in all of these loads are 80% WW- 20% PB, PPU brass, WLR primers, sized .3105, Hornady gas checks, Darr + JPW pan lubed and OAL of 3.237". All shots taken at 50 yards with a Stevens 200, 22" barrel.

First 5 with 5744. Velocity was 155 fps faster than predicted.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/23654e6bd3402e89e.jpg

Next 5 with 5744. Velocity was 85 fps slower than predicted.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/23654e6bd34048cb4.jpg

Final 5 with 5744. This started to open up and the lube smoked quite a bit.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/23654e6bd34055fa1.jpg



Switching to 2400 and 10 shots groups, the first 10.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/23654e6bd35ad63b2.jpg


With 1 grain more of 2400, the last 10.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/23654e6bd35ae2ae6.jpg



Overall I can't complain for the first run. All stabilized fine with no keyholes at these velocities.
Alan

[cast367]

Afrance,

I use the 200 grs LEE CB with the Hornady gascheck in my match barreled
Parker Hale. Bullit mix = 30/70 lino/pure lead'. RCBS grease.

16 grs Acc. no.9 with dacron filler gives at 100 meter tesame result then your
last picture with 15 grs 2400.
I am satisfayed.

Leo

[Blammer]

how does it do at 100yds?

[afrance]

Not sure yet. Only loaded the 35 and the range only had openings on the 50 yard line. I will load some this week and hopefully make it back the range next week.

Alan

[afrance]

Just an update from the 100 yard line. All of the constants listed in post #12 apply except these are from 100 yards.

I dropped the AA5744 to 15 grains to try and get subsonic but ended up at 1152 fps, however the grouping was fine and no signs of keyholing.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/23654e76b9835c246.jpg



Shot 2 sets of 10 shots of the 15 grains of 2400 and they were similar to the previous findings.

1st set of 10.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/23654e76b98368593.jpg



2nd set of 10.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/23654e76b983744f9.jpg

[Ben]

afrance

Thanks for the range results. That is an interesting bullet.

Your 100 yard target with 15.0 grs. 2400 displays " tipping " and instability , have you noticed the holes ?

Ben

[afrance]

I thought they were still pretty round. The macro setting on the camera definitely creates a fisheye look at the edges. Here is the group without the macro setting.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/23654e787f51a72ba.jpg

What am I missing that is showing tipping? I saw the extra black marks but assumed since it was just on a couple it was some lube flying off. I guess the look I have in my mind is that tipping would look more like keyholing I have seen with revolvers but maybe I'm not looking at the rifle ones correctly.

I also need to remember to bring my own cardboard as most of the target backers at the range are heavily shot out and not conducive to clean cut holes.

[Ben]

Look closer at the areas in " red brackets ", looks to me like the bullet is " tipping " , someone else here on the forum may see it differently ? ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/23654e76b98368593.jpg

[afrance]

Okay I see what you are talking about. I will get some more of that load together and see if that continues. And I will look around for some higher quality targets instead of these cheap waxy ones.

Thanks!

[Ben]

When you end up with clean round holes that don't display what you see outlined above, you'll be good to go.

To me.....the holes don't look perfectly round either....not a good sign of stability.

Increasing the velocity may improve things ?

Good Shooting,

Ben

[smokemjoe]

That bullet really shot good in my 91-30. try 17 grs. 4759.

[G. Blessing]

I look forward to seeing how this progresses.

Anything bigger than 200grn in 30-06 is a new idea to me. And I like it!

Is this a bullet i could purchase somewhere, or is getting a mold the only option?

G.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

does your range go any longer than 100 running out to 150 or 200 should make the tipping obvious key holing if it isn't any different at 200


i don't think a hog under 100 yard would notice tipping so it kind of depends how far out you hit hogs

[afrance]

Is this a bullet i could purchase somewhere, or is getting a mold the only option?

I bought the mold from CBE (www.castbulletengineering.com) but don't know of any commercial casters that are using it.


does your range go any longer than 100 running out to 150 or 200 should make the tipping obvious key holing if it isn't any different at 200

Unfortunately no, 100 is as far as it goes. The one with 300 yard lanes shut down and I haven't found another one within an hour of driving.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

do you shoot hogs farther out than a hundred?

[afrance]

No. I usually try to stay at that distance or closer for hunting and I agree with you that the hog would never know the difference.

[Blammer]

yes I see that your boolits on the one are tipping too.

for your target, just mount the target on a fresh piece of cardboard, and make sure the paper is flat against it. That will tell you tipping, instability issues quite easily. I had a 240gr 30 cal mould that I could not get to shoot in my rem 700 with 1/10 twist. It showed really bad stability issues at 100yds.

I shoot 226gr 311284's out of my rem 700 in 30-06 quite well at 1850 fps, so for me that is about the max wt I'd mess with.

A faster twist or more velocity may solve your tipping issue.