Hungarian Yellow tip in 303

[6901]

Hello all,
I have been breaking down my 7.62X54r Hungarain Yellow Tip for 303 reloads. I am reducing the powder charge by 10% and loading the the bullet and powder into 303 cases. Accuracy is as good as anything else I have run in my Enfields.

The Question I have is this: one of the older gentlemen, who I put alot of respect in at the gunclub, advised my not to let the restuffed 303 loads sit around too long. He maintains that the old powder starts to breakdown when exposed to the air and the deterotiating powder will be a problem. I was planning on pulling down a case of Yellowtip this winter and loading a seasons worth of 303.
The reloads will then sit around for months.
Is this a problem?

Thanks

[Ed in North Texas]

Did Hogdon have problems with short term deterioration of their MilSurp powders? Has Jeff Barlett had a problem with the pulldown powders? For sure the pulldown powders have been exposed to the air when pulled down, and perhaps again when re-packed in smaller jugs. I don't know how old the Hungarian "Yellow Tip" ammo might be already (30+ years?), so there could be a significant deterioration issue if you wished to use these loads a decade from now. But maybe not even then.

Just my $0.02, but I think a year or two wouldn't cause you any problems, much less 6 months.

[6901]

You make good points.
Thanks for your input.

[Larry Gibson]

6901

The older gentleman may have a point. I have had the flake european milsurp powder break down on me 3 times over the years. I had pulled the bullets and put the powder into empty powder containers (clearly marked as to what the new powder in it was). I have also had many more such pull down lots of the same type of powders not break down. In thinking back some of the cartridges had some corrosion around the bullets and case mouth. I'm sure the powder in those was probably already deteriorating. The last time this happened was in '05 when I was in Iraq and had not been in my powder cabinet for 9 months. The powder was from some WWII 8x57. The fumes comming out of that container corroded several other metal powder containers near it. I am now careful when pulling down milsurp to not save any powder from any cases that have any corrosian around the bullet/case mouth. I don't know if that was the cause but it's not happened since.

Thus the old gentleman may not have meant it always happens but that it might.......

Larry Gibson

[higgins]

Because I finally had one of the case splits it's known for, I'm pulling down some of the 50s 8mm Yugo ammo and reloading a reduced charge into a commercial case with a new primer. I pull it down and reload it on an as-needed basis, usually about 40 rds at a time. If I had a lot of ammo that was OK "as-is", I would still do it on an as-needed basis. I would rather have the 54R on hand as usable ammo rather than broken down into components. You can always break it down later, but if you've discarded the cases you can't put it back together.

[Multigunner]

6901

The older gentleman may have a point. I have had the flake european milsurp powder break down on me 3 times over the years. I had pulled the bullets and put the powder into empty powder containers (clearly marked as to what the new powder in it was). I have also had many more such pull down lots of the same type of powders not break down. In thinking back some of the cartridges had some corrosion around the bullets and case mouth. I'm sure the powder in those was probably already deteriorating. The last time this happened was in '05 when I was in Iraq and had not been in my powder cabinet for 9 months. The powder was from some WWII 8x57. The fumes comming out of that container corroded several other metal powder containers near it. I am now careful when pulling down milsurp to not save any powder from any cases that have any corrosian around the bullet/case mouth. I don't know if that was the cause but it's not happened since.

Thus the old gentleman may not have meant it always happens but that it might.......

Larry Gibson

I had much the same outcome after breaking down a lot of European (portugese ?) 7.62 ammo that had corrosion on the cases.
I put the powder in an old IMR steel can and the can disintegrated into reddish brown dust from the line of the powder on down.
Everything nearby got very crusty with rust, no permanent damage to a sizing die and caliper and some other tools. Luckily no handguns were stored in that drawer this time.


After a huge explosion of a cold war ammo storage depot some years back a study was done on the preservative additives used in most double base powders.
Ethyl centralite was judged to lose its ability to neutralize products of decomposition after 25 years, leading to instability.
The conditions of storage are the major factor of course.
If kept cool and dry ammo can last much longer than 25 years, if kept in warm moist conditions it can go bad in months in extreme cases.
The 7.62 ammo I mentioned had gone south in about 15 years if I remember the headstamp dates.

On the otherhand I read of the testfiring of a Colt Navy cartridge conversion in which a full 50 round box of period ammo was sacrificed by a cartridge collector, and they had no misfires and the best accuracy of any of the late 19th century military handguns involved in the test firing.
I'd have to find the book again to be sure but I think these particular rounds were loaded with a very early double base powder instead of Black Powder.