Full (Mannlicher) Stocked Rifles - Fetish

[cabezaverde]

For some crazy reason, I have always had a strange attraction to these full stocked rifles. They just seem so continental, and seem to be a very compact handy package. My ideal is a 308, 7-08, or 7 Mauser. I could live with an 06 or 270.

I have read horror stories regarding the Rugers moving their point of impact around, and have not found any attractively priced used ones.

The CZ's stocks look funny to me, even though I have heard pretty good things about the rifles themselves.

Today, I saw an Interarms rifle that looked pretty nice. The seller wanted $450.00, which I thought was high as the stock would need to be refinished - someone decided to do checkering practice on it. Also, the bottom metal had been kind of partially stripped, so that would need re-bluing. I offered $300 and left my cell number.

Should the seller call back, does anyone have any input on this rifle?

[versifier]

One thing that has helped on Rugers has been to carefully and totally seal the stock, inside and out (under the buttplate and in the action screw holes, too). This keeps it from absorbing and releasing as much water with changes in temperature and humidity. It doesn't cure the problem completely, but it does help a lot. As long as you are talking a big game rifle that has to keep within MOD (minute of deer) it will be a rifle you can live with. I agree with you on how good they look, but stocks with really fancy wood with great figure and grain patterns can be the worst offenders for POI shift as conditions change. I don't know if a laminated or synthetic full stock would have quite the same appeal.

[9.3X62AL]

Having owned two actual Mannlicher-Schoenauers, their absence from Camp Perry was no accident. Overall, I would rate their accuracy potential as like that of Winchester 94's or Marlin 336's. And that standard is just fine for deer-sized or larger critters. I came close to buying a CZ full-stock in 9.3 x 62, but its light weight would have made the rifle a real killer on both ends.

One advantage the CZ's have is the detent-held front sight posts, 14 different heights. I have #1, #7 (came with the rifle) and #14, ordered from the CZ-USA facility in KC.

[waksupi]

With an Interarms, you will have at the very least, a good Mauser action.
I'm also looking into building a Mauser, probably 6.5X55, on either an Interarms or Kimber action.
There are ways of making Mannlichers shoot very well, and very consistant, but you probably will not get them from a commercial production rifle. And, I am restricted from telling anyone outside of our company how to do it! When one leaves our hands, it will shoot under an inch, and will stay there.

[Blackwater]

As to the little Ruger Int'l, I've been closely familiar with 3 examples, all in .308. Each would put the first 3 in cloverleafs at 100, with all 3 shots usually touching. How that skinny barrel did that remains a mystery to me. However, they didn't care whether I understood or not, and did this very regularly. As several years passed, however, they lost their gilt edge, and began opening groups. None of the 3 owners would touch the guns, insisting they remain stock, except one, who eventually cut down the full length stock to a short sporter length. After the bob job, the gun commenced to shooting much like it had originally.

All 3 of these guns would open up to MOA or a slight tad over, when fired for 5 shots, but those first 3 were amazingly accurate. One of the 3 later got another Int'l in .308, and sent it to John Lewis in SC to have a barrel turned for it that was the same diameter as the barrel band used for the front sight. His psychology, however, left him still disenamored with the sweet little gun, and he rarely shoots it, and then only with factory 150's with which the little gun shoots near MOA. Despite that, he still keeps it as a "safe queen," and rarely takes it out for a walk to the range. Funny how our attitudes can dominate such matters, isn't it?

I know my own experience runs counter to that which I usually see, but I have to take at least part of what I read with a grain of salt due to the fad of Ruger bashing that seems to inflict far too many otherwise rational folks on the 'net. C'est la' vie? Only explanation I can come up with.

If it were me, I'd try a Ruger Int'l, but of course, it's NOT me, so ....

Next choice would be the CZ, and don't let that funny looking stock throw you off until you've shouldered one. Yeah, that hog's back butt looks funny, but the darn things feel really good when you mount one.

And anyway, why do we keep buying clones of the same basic gun over and over? I quit that, and now find leverguns, and even the new M-750 Rem. auto carbine in .35 Whelen to be VERY attractive. Single shots have always beckoned to me, and I have several of those, too. My newfound appreciation for expanding the scope and look of my battery of guns is MUCH more pleasing now than having a bunch of near clone type guns ever used to be.

Every man needs at least one neat little light, short carbine, a "funny looking" gun that fits and performs well like the CZ, some leverguns, autos and single shots. THEN he's got a REAL choice when he wanders over to the gun safe to bring forth an interesting rifle or two to shoot for that day.

Never judge a gun until you mount it to find how it FEELS to YOU, and then shoot it and use it a bit. My tang safety Ruger 77's will always be my favorite "using" guns," but I must say that broadening my horizons has really added a lot to my appreciation of the "diversity" among the rifles available to us shooters. Heck! I even built a thumbhole stock for a fellow recently, and now I want one of THEM, notwithstanding how I used to snicker at them. They sure do hold well in offhand! How was I supposed to know until I built that rifle? I'd never used, or even handled one much, and would NEVER have deigned to actually put one to my shoulder. My loss, but NOW I KNOW THAT.

Funny, isn't it, how when you open up to things and actually test them out for yourself, how your perceptions/realizations can change?

The little full stocks CAN be really great rifles. They DO (usually) require more of the rifle owner than some other types, such as the stainless/synthetics, but .... well, that just makes them more charming, and less boring, IMO.

Let your shoulder and the target decide what's beautiful and what's not. The advice about sealing the wood is good advice to heed. In all cases with the above Int'l .308's, it was almost certainly the wood's warping over time that came to widen them all the way up to MOA or a bit more. Even then, though, those 3 guns would have been match winning benchresters some 40 years ago. We just don't appreciate how great our guns of today really are, or that what's worked for about a century STILL works if we'll but cast our prejudices and "conventional wisdom" aside, and just approach the purchase more from the heart. Dang those who'd limit a man's options in women or rifles!

Buy what you like the looks of, and the feel of, and load up a number of loads and see what she wants to shoot. If there are still problems, take ol' sleeping beauty to the gun doc, and have her checked out, and ministered to. Bet you a bright shiny new dime she'll purr like a kitten when dealt with knowledgeably and adeptly. Wanna' bet?

[ELFEGO BACA]

When I was a kid the centerfolds in the gun magazines had ads by Firearms International. I fell in love with the Sako Vixen with Mannlicher stock. That dream never materialized.

When Ruger came out with their M77RSI in the mid 80s I got one in 250-3000. I mounted a Leupold 3-9x scope on it.

It is the best damn whitetail deer rifle one could have - at least for me:

[Uncle Grinch]

Several years ago, I built up a Mannlicher stocked 6.5x55 on a '96 Swede action. I used a fancy grade Great American Gunstock Company stock (had to wait forever for it). It really looked good, if I can say so myself.

Only problem was, I never could get it to group. I glass bedded it and sealed the inside. The gun shot great in it's original militay configuration. I ended up getting a Butler Creek syntheic stock and after reinforcing the forearm, it shot like it always had before.

Maybe it was just too pretty to carry in the woods and felt out of place in that pretty Mannlicher stock.

[floodgate]

I had a Mannlicher-stocked sporter on a Mauser '98 action, claw-mount scope, butter-knife bolt handle, set triggers, etc. that my Dad brought back from WWII. It had the forestock cut on the diagonal about 8" ahead of the receiver, both faces of the joint faced with horn, and spaced so you could slide a sheet of paper between them. As I recall, the front section was pretty closely bedded to the front half of the barrel. I was told that "splitting" the stock this way prevented barrel strains from warpage and "wood-drift". I was / am not a good enough shot to tell the difference, and the rifle is "long time gone".

floodgate

[longhorn]

My experience with a single M-S M1952 in .308 is a little different-it'll shoot 5 into 1.5" repeatedly at 100. I credit most of that to the incredibly light and crisp double set triggers and having a nice scope on top-or, actually, on the _side_ in a Jaeger mount. It shoots my .308 cast load into 1" at 50 quite reliably-my favoite smokeless plinker! At the top of my current want list is a Ruger #1 International (full stocked, of course) in .30-06 for more cast fun!

[KCSO]

I had an Interarms M-X Mauser in 243 for a number of years. When I got the gun I stripped the gun to the bare stock and soaked the bare wood with Danish oil. Then I bubbed melted bees wax on all the exposed surfaces and re assembled the gun. My buddy has it now and it still has not changed poi in over 25 years. The gun regularly shoots into 1 1/2" at 10 yards and is a joy to carry. If the darn gun hadn't been a 243 I would have it yet and if I ever find it's twin in 308, 30-06 ot 270 I will have one again. But $400 bucks for a boogered one is a bit much, If you can get it for 300 that would be all right.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got a little ruger 250-3000 international thats allways been my favorite deer rifle

[KCSO]

Corrections
RUBBED
and 100 yards

Blame it on my editor

[C A Plater]

I've got a sweet Ruger #1 International in .30-06 and I sorely tempted to plunk down the cash for a CZ in 7x57 on the rack at a local Gander Mtn.

[PAT303]

These rifles cop alot of flak from the accurracy crowd but sure arouse alot of interest. Just from me I have liked them ever since I read about Bell useing a 6.5x54 on elephants. Pat

[cabezaverde]

Anyone have any experience with the CZ full stock guns?

[waksupi]

For those who think the Mannlicher doesn't have accuracy potential. We sent one of our Tigercat Mannlichers to the range for testing today. With factory ammo, group size was .177", from a .338 Win Mag.

[cabezaverde]

I read on another forum about the CZ full stocks having a very low comb, making it difficult to shoot with a scope.

Waksupi, could you drop me a pm and let me know what company you are with?

[C A Plater]

I resisted the 7x57 CZ-550FS for a while by telling myself I really don't need another caliber to reload. If it were 6.5x55 instead, at least I'm setup for that with the 96 Swede and have proper size Norma and Lapua brass. Well, they got one and I brought it home. I need to get some Warne rings and I plan to mount either a Burris 4x, Leupold 2-7x or the 1-4x Leupold I already have. To be sure the hogback style butt will favor smaller diameter scopes and low rings but the fit does not seem unreasonable.

[Nrut]

I resisted the 7x57 CZ-550FS for a while by telling myself I really don't need another caliber to reload. If it were 6.5x55 instead, at least I'm setup for that with the 96 Swede and have proper size Norma and Lapua brass. Well, they got one and I brought it home. I need to get some Warne rings and I plan to mount either a Burris 4x, Leupold 2-7x or the 1-4x Leupold I already have. To be sure the hogback style butt will favor smaller diameter scopes and low rings but the fit does not seem unreasonable.
CA & cabezaverde.... I have a CZ550FS in 9.3X62...fits me like a glove with both irons an Leup.1.5-5X with Warne med. CZ/Brno rings...Like my Brnos I had to grind (4" angle ginder,dremel,finished with wet/dry sand paper) the bolt handle to make it clear the scope...I just got the rifle last spring an did'nt start fooling with it until last fall using resized .377 Rcbs bootils and 36 grs. of H4895... Gave me my best cast boolit 5 shot group ever... .507" at 100 meters..I was sighting in at the time and that group used up my last rounds....went home loaded up some more and shot boulders up to 250 meters for off hand practice on my way home from work in the bush....this is a low vel.(38-55?) no recoil load and fun to shoot off hand, esp. with a set trigger.......the sound it made when the bullet slammed those boulders make me think that it could take most anything around here with a well placed shot...
Cabezaverde...since you are er "Big Boned" like me I would think it would fit you also....:mrgreen:

[Buckshot]

I resisted the 7x57 CZ-550FS for a while by telling myself I really don't need another caliber to reload. If it were 6.5x55 instead, at least I'm setup for that with the 96 Swede and have proper size Norma and Lapua brass. Well, they got one and I brought it home. I need to get some Warne rings and I plan to mount either a Burris 4x, Leupold 2-7x or the 1-4x Leupold I already have. To be sure the hogback style butt will favor smaller diameter scopes and low rings but the fit does not seem unreasonable.

.............Nice rifle but too bad about passing on the 7x57. Prolly one of the finest all rounders there is. Great cast shooter too!

...............Buckshot

[Bret4207]

I have a Mauser '98 action and 20" 308 Israeli stepped barrel combo I've been working on now and then for about 20 years. The stock is a Mannlicher Bishop or Fajen I got years ago on sale. If I could find the time to finish it, it should make a fine deer rifle with a Lyman 48 and gold Sourdough up front. Strictly cast too!

[cabezaverde]

So three months later, I scratch the itch.

Went to a show today, and found an Interarms 30-06 in much better condition than the first one - $300 out the door. Only fault is a stock ding, but I am probably going to strip the stock (glossy now) ,and put a nice matte oil finish on it.

Of course, this assumes it is a shooter, which I hope to find out tomorrow.

[Curly James]

Just to put my two cents worth in, I recently repurchased (yep, I bought the same gun 26 years after I had traded it as a callow youth) an Interarms mannlicher stocked rifle in .308 Winchester. I was amazed to see the same scope, an old Redfield, that was on it when it when the trade took place. It is still the same, the first shot I can guarantee will be dead center at 100 yards, the next two rounds, if fired rapidly, will walk the group open to a little less than 2 inches. That little skinny barrel heats up quickly. However, after over a quarter century of experience I realize now that the first shot is the one that matters and will not worry about the rest. They are handy, friendly, and sorta sexy guns and I was drooling over a CZ mannlicher in .30/06 just the other day. Enjoy and I would like to see a photo after you get the shiny stuff off the stock. Take care, CJ.

[dlajavic]

I have an old BRNO (I don't know if it's a 21 or 22) in 6.5x57, full mannlicher stock, butter knife bolt handle, double set triggers, express iron sights. Shoots fantastic, but it's a safe queen for me. Anyone interested? I'll shoot some pics once I find my digital camera and send them to anyone interested. For the right price I'll add the RCBS dies with trim die, all the brass I have (about 300 cases) for use in fire forming cases and all the .264 projectiles I have and there are over 600 ranging in weight from 100 to 140 grains and I may have some 160's somewhere. I also have about 140 rounds of loaded ammo but I don't know how old it is. It shot fine 3 years ago but I think it was loaded in the 1960's and may not have been fireformed so it should be pulled down. Shot at or about 2" at 100 yards but that was from a rest and my eyes were better then. The express sights don't lend themselves well to these old eyes.

[Char-Gar]

I too like those full stock rifles, but I have only owned one. It was a 50's vintage CZ in 6.5 X 57. It was a wonderful rifle that would turn in 1.25 MOA accuracy on demand and never showed any tendency for the accuracy to degrade or the POI to wander. I had it for about ten years, before I sold it down river. That was a mistake.

I have nothing but praise for anything CZ makes.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have one of these and also a CZ 527 FS in .223 and a .22 LR Varmint rifle also by CZ. They are an excellent rifle. My old mauser gives me 2" groups at 100 yrds with hand cast 170 grn ww's boolits over 13 gr or so of Red Dot. The .223 is quite a shooter out to 175 yds or so. I have one of those cheapo Chinese scopes on it and I can get 3/4" grps at 100 and 2 1/2 " at 175. However the lines of the stock are so pretty that I am contemplating putting on a Lyman receiver sight and taking off the scope. I will use this on Coyotes and other varmints out here in the SW. That scope is so darned big and heavy that it ruins the beautiful lines of the rifle. The gun deserves better than that. It handles so well without the scope and is so handy and light that I must resight this weapon. The little .22 had a heavy varmint barrel and will shoot all day into 1/2" at 50 yds. If only they made a fs for the .22 I would buy one also. These rifles are works of art and handle like a dream. Try one and you will be hooked.
Dan (Crash) Corrigan (sleepless in Vegas)

[Urny]

Crash, CZ-USA shows a full stock .22 on their website. Is that what you are looking for?

[cabezaverde]

Specifically on the Interarms guns, does anyone know what stock finish was used ?

[Bret4207]

Specifically on the Interarms guns, does anyone know what stock finish was used ?

Near as I can recall from working on them years ago, it was something approaching plexiglass! (HAR!) I don't know for sure, but if you're going to strip it, use one of the chemical strippers for polyurethane type finishes.

BTW- Just spotted an Interarms Mannlicher in 30-'06 at a small local shop. My son wants an '06 and graduation is coming soon. After all, his Mom is getting a gun for Mothers day......http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Talkinghttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Talking

[Bret4207]

[QUOTE=Tpr. Bret;180376]Near as I can recall from working on them years ago, it was something approaching plexiglass! (HAR!) I don't know for sure, but if you're going to strip it, use one of the chemical strippers for polyurethane type finishes.

BTW- Just spotted an Interarms Mannlicher in 30-'06 at a small local shop. My son wants an '06 and graduation is coming soon. After all, his Mom is getting a gun for Mothers day.....

[cabezaverde]

[QUOTE=
BTW- Just spotted an Interarms Mannlicher in 30-'06 at a small local shop. My son wants an '06 and graduation is coming soon. [/QUOTE]

I decided mine is a shooter.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I bought a CZ FS in 9,3x62 just before Christmas...HELLO!! Santa-ME!! Got a 4-cavity NEI mould here from Dragonrider that makes two 270gr and two 300gr GC boolits.
65gr of Big Game goes over 2400fps and under an inch at 100with J-bullets. I am looking hard at another one (rifle) in 6,5x68 if they bring them in here.

Rich
DRSS
me and my single-set triggered CZ

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

check out the classifieds at www.accuraterelaoding.com. Bill Stewart has one like new in 7x57 Mauser for sale.

Rich
DRSS