Calwell Leadsled 820-300 (Plus)

[roysha]

I'm not sure if this is the place to ask this but given that I'm using cast bullets and the gun is slapping the snot out of me I'll ask and if it needs to be moved I'm sure someone will move it.

Does anyone here use this rest for heavy recoiling guns? I hate recoil so anything to mitigate it is a blessing. However, before I spend a hundred bucks plus, I want to make sure it will do the job I expect it to do.

Oh yeah, this is for a 444 Marlin using the RD 432 350 TLC bullet, from the bench in an attempt to work up an accurate load. Shee it, it hurts!!

[milprileb]

YES, I Do !

First, you can put like 50 pounds of ballast on a Lead Sled and no more. To make it concrete solid means you will split wood stocks. The Sled will and has to move to the rear a little so damage to weapon is precluded. Its not much and its like a 410 shot gun push to shoulder.

Second: when you shoot off a bench, there is a lot of recoil vs shooting standing. So if you are shooting large calibers and recoil is bothering you (please no young guys with Macho comments about real men can take it. Real men don't have to take it if they choose not to), then a Sled is money well invested. You can shoot loads, develop loads, zero weapons and eliminate recoil, flinch and a lot of human variables out of the equation.

I validated over 30 military 30 caliber rifles the past two years : loads, bedding, triggers and brought all of them into optimum performance and the Sled let me do that without drama of recoil, my errors on sighting iron sights and wasting expensive components. You shoot match FMJ bullets and spend 10 rounds trying to find out if the load works or not or you do that in 3 shots using a Sled.

What the Sled does for you when you get older and your body won't sustain lots of recoil pleasantly (the day comes so you gonna quit shooting or do something so you can ?), is extend the years of your shooting life.

No, you don't use it for hunting or matches as its a tool for load development and working up a rifle. But Yes, its a tool that pays for itself and has a lot of utility like a firm platform to mount a rifle, install as scope or clean a bore.

After I validate a rifle and loads with a Sled, I know what that rifle will do and when it fails to do that: I know I am the issue and need to pull up my socks and fix my failings.

Lastly, pre deer season: the Sled lets you validate your zero with 3 shots max and you are off the range. You won't be like most folks fiddling around with scopes, missing the paper and using a lot of ammo to sort out the deer rifle ! A lot of guys don't shoot all year long and when they arrive to zero their deer rifle they bring a lot of human errors into that process. First address the rifle and know its ready for deer season quickly with a sled, then its up to you to sort out your failings to shoot that rifle. I see folks using two boxes of ammo at times till they get their deer rifle somewhat zero'd: waste of time and money is what the accomplish most of the time.

[gefiltephish]

I bought one about a year ago and only used it 3 or 4 times. Nothing wrong with it, it's just not my cup o' tea. I never used it with weight though, but I'm not recoil shy and don't have any shoulder issues. Let me know if you're interested in it, we can work something out.

I bought it to use mainly for my Marlin 45-70. I also have a 30-30 Win and an AR. Forget using it with an AR, the grip hits the center bar. For the same reason you'll have to rotate lever actions in order to work the action. No big deal, just an observation. If there's one available with an offset center bar, that may be a better choice.

I now have the "Rock Jr" (nearly identical to the leadsled front half) and a squeezable rear bag. Suits me much better.

[HammerMTB]

I have one. I use it without weight for the AR, but need to set it high so the grip doesn't touch.
For heavier recoiling rifles (the 1895 45-70 comes to mind, the the 7MM Mag is right up there too) I put a couple lead weights I cast from a small cast iron frying pan. I still put my shoulder up to the buttstock, but there's not much kick left. Works like a champ, but it does have its limitations.

[C.F.Plinker]

If you want a lead sled for an AR or anything with the pistol grip or an extended magazine, look at the lead sled DFT. It has two horizontal rails spaced far enough apart that the grip and magazine can come down between them. I bought one when they first came out and use it for load workups or scope setting pretty much as Milprileb said in his post. I like it for rifles with scopes or post and notch iron sights. For my leverguns with aperture sights I use a Steady Rest because I get my cheek weld and then move fore and aft to change elevation. The one modification I made to the Steady Rest was to add a Velcro strap at the rear so I could lash the stock down to the rest. Without it the rifle could tip over if I left it just sitting on the rest while I was doing something else.

[63 Shiloh]

I too have one, I weigh it up with 2x 20lb bags of shot.

Use it for load development for my 45-70, .300 win mag and .458 LOTT.

What I have found, particularly with the .300 winny ( 6Lb mountain rifle) is that my POI differs from the Lead Sled to field positions.

In the case of the .300 win using Barnes 180gn TTSX, it will shoot a good 6" high off the lead sled??

Anyone else experiencing differing POI when using the Sled?

Mike

[milprileb]

I don't strap the weapon down , I hold it firming in the Lead Sled so my POA always
equals POI when I later shoot it off sand bags, slinged from prone or standing positions.

Yes these things have limitations as they are a purpose made tool. I find the sled invaluable for load development on a lot of weapons but if you only got one or two long rifles, its not going to bring a ton of bacon home for you.

I got 12 Lee Enfiels (all marks) in the cue for work up of loads and getting them shooting to prime potential (lots of bedding drama as wood dries out and bedding changes over decades) so the Sled continues to be relevant to me. This effort will take the better part of a year to do correctly and I can do it without recoil and human error in my way.

However, the sad part of this subject is the Macho thing amongst shooters who will flatly deny any need for such a device. They have no need, don't see a need for one and will kind of twist the logic of the Sled (or other such things) to being a wimp and not having good shooting skills.

Well, if its being a wimp to establish optimum loads, bedding and performance of a rifle before you shoot it for years off your shoulder, then call me names. To spend tons of money wasting ammo shooting badly cause you don't have the weapon sorted out and you blame it for being at fault: if that is how you approach shooting, then so be it. I know you very well, I see you all the time at the range and you shoot 3 inch groups at 100 off a bench and think you got your ducks in a row, or worse, your rifle does even worse than 3 inches and you blame it and your ammo.

For bullet casters who take the time to make bullets and want to achieve something with them, a Sled is worth considering IF you have the need for one.

Upcoming Garand match: took 5 minutes on a SLED to validate zero is right and ammo shoots POA to POI. I am ready for practice all this week on positions and basic skill sets and my ammo shot will not be wasted.

Yup, this tool is relevant to me.

[onondaga]

Most of my shooting is with .458 Win Mag at levels of the .444 you mention.

I hunt with this .458 and point of impact changes are dramatic for me when I compare POI with a Lead Sled to POI with a Past recoil vest and a standard bench rest. My hottest loads recorded a 16 inch difference in POI at 50 yards with the same load between a Lead Sled versus a vest and standard rest.

The Lead Sled is terrific for evaluating accuracy potential of a load in heavy calibers but it is very poor in predicting POI for field hunting. So, If you plan on fielding your rifle it is best to also re-sight in and practice with your outfit and support for shooting that best imitates your hunting situation.

This is most important with higher recoil rifles, If I ignore it I would be missing my shots by 16 inches with my .458 loaded to .444 levels.

Gary

[milprileb]

[B]I own a 458 Win Mag and a 375 H&H. Neither is going on my lead sled and both are magnaported. Gary (above) has comments which IMHO are in a special category as 458 is not a normal caliber and its recoil (from bench ) is abusive, can damage stocks and scopes.

Whatever Gary says is going to go unchallenged as I am not ever going to master the 458 Win Mag. I piled sleeping bags onto the truck hood and zero'd this cannon from standing postion and yes: I laid canvas on the hood so flame and hate out of the bore did not damage the paint.