New 310gn 44 mag bullet question

[justinhip]

I just tested my first batch of 310s in my super redhawk 9.5" 44 mag. They were loaded with 21 gn of 296 and cci 350 mag primers. They were noticably snappier but nothing near what i had expected but what i found interesting is that the report was less than that of a standard 240 gn load. One of the guys in my club yelled out that he didnt feel there was high velocity based upon the sound. I have not chronoed the load yed but understand that it should be about 1200 psi and that was from a shorter barrel. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks

[Dale53]

>>>Any thoughts or suggestions?<<<

Chronograph it! This is NOT a wimpy load!

Dale53

[justinhip]

Thats next and i also meant fps not psi

[GP100man]

That`s the balance of big&heavy or lite&fast loads .

Probably not going super sonic , but does it need to ????

How does it group ???? how much drop at 50,75, & 100yds ???

Ya got the rite powder, but I just don`t punish my hand & revolvers to those levels !
I load with IMR 4227 to just over 1000 fps ,that`s enuff for me & it puts 2 holes in anything I shoot with the 310s.

& my loads have more boom than crack , the crack is the boolit breaking the sound barrier.

I agree with Dale53 it`s not a wimpy load but may or may not be max in YOUR revolver, chronoing will give more insight .The Big Super Redhawk does a fine job taming even the heaviest loads in the 44Mag

Hope this helps .

[HammerMTB]

That's my bear load!
I am using the same boolit over 22.7 of WW296 in my 9.5" SRH. It clocks 1450 avg in it. For anyone who thinks of using the load, it is HOT. OK for Rugers and BFRs. It will wreck lighter guns.
You'd do well to try a few over a chrono. It confirms your loading.
And yes, the "bark" is less than a hot loaded 240. But the "bite" at the terminal end is a good deal greater.
The big SRH soaks up a lot of recoil, too.

[762cavalier]

I just tested my first batch of 310s in my super redhawk 9.5" 44 mag. They were loaded with 21 gn of 296 and cci 350 mag primers. They were noticably snappier but nothing near what i had expected but what i found interesting is that the report was less than that of a standard 240 gn load. One of the guys in my club yelled out that he didnt feel there was high velocity based upon the sound. I have not chronoed the load yed but understand that it should be about 1200 psi and that was from a shorter barrel. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks

Wow!!! hate to shoot next to that guy. And to think, all these years I didn't really need a chrony. I just need to fine tune my ears to the sound of the pressure wave.[smilie=1:

[justinhip]

Its snappy but doesnt hurt. The biggest difference i have noticed is that the recoil reaches into my wrist which it normally doesnt. BTW, for those using this bullet, which crimp groove are you using? I used the second or longest configuration

[izzyjoe]

when i had my BH, i shot 20gr. of h110 with 310gr's. and i use that load now in my marlin 44, and it's pretty snappy. it will blow up 6 milk jug's, and probally more but that's all i had. it's pretty impressive.

[tek4260]

FWIW, in a SUPER REDHAWK, you may find your best accuracy somewhere in the 24-26gr range. It all depends on how deep that Lee sits in the case as to the load you can use(read full case, touching the base of the seated boolit).

Smiths and Taurus need not apply.

[justinhip]

FWIW, in a SUPER REDHAWK, you may find your best accuracy somewhere in the 24-26gr range. It all depends on how deep that Lee sits in the case as to the load you can use(read full case, touching the base of the seated boolit).

Smiths and Taurus need not apply.

That sounds kinda hot considering most load data maxes at 21. But there is still room in the case

[BCB]

I just tested my first batch of 310s in my super redhawk 9.5" 44 mag. They were loaded with 21 gn of 296 and cci 350 mag primers. They were noticably snappier but nothing near what i had expected but what i found interesting is that the report was less than that of a standard 240 gn load. One of the guys in my club yelled out that he didnt feel there was high velocity based upon the sound. I have not chronoed the load yed but understand that it should be about 1200 psi and that was from a shorter barrel. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks

I suppose there is data out there indicating that powder charge, but with a 300+ grain boolit, that has to be near a compressed load...

I shoot 19.5 graings of H-110 with a Lyman 429650 (320+ grains) for a velocity of 1277 fps (chrongraphed). That is with a SRH handgun that you are also using...

Hodgdon only lists 20.0 of this powder as the maximum load...

I think you are right a the top end--others will certainly disagree I am sure...

Good-luck...BCB

[tek4260]

That sounds kinda hot considering most load data maxes at 21. But there is still room in the case



That's why I said Super Redhawk :)

I have a Mihec 300gr HP that doesn't take up any more powder space than a 240. I need to order a Lee 310 next time I order from Midway, to see how deep you have to seat them. It's just hard to justify ordering one with an excellent Mihec sitting here.

[justinhip]

Belive it or not, ther is plenty of room using the longest oal. I even mistakenly set 2 cartridges at the shorter oal without problem. I believe alont of this bullets mass at least over the 240 is outside the case, but ill have to check on that one.

[BCB]

That's why I said Super Redhawk :)

I have a Mihec 300gr HP that doesn't take up any more powder space than a 240. I need to order a Lee 310 next time I order from Midway, to see how deep you have to seat them. It's just hard to justify ordering one with an excellent Mihec sitting here.

How can a 300 grainer not take up anymore room than a 240 grainer?...

And then being a HP, it has to even be longer...

Does it have a nose area that is very long?...

Good-luck...BCB

[44man]

The best accuracy from a Ruger with that boolit is 21.5 gr of 296 with a STANDARD primer. I use the Fed 150.
Any increase or decrease will start to open groups.
That load gives me around 1320 fps from a 10" barrel.
A SRH should do 1/2" to 1" at 50 yards with it.
Give it a try, mag primers triple my groups. They never go in my .44.

[white eagle]

How can a 300 grainer not take up anymore room than a 240 grainer?...

And then being a HP, it has to even be longer...

Does it have a nose area that is very long?...

Good-luck...BCB

multi crimp grooves
he seats his out further
I use the same boolt and use the last
c/g to decrease the dead space :Fire:

[tek4260]

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/444_44.jpg

That dead space is a good place for powder!

[bowfishn]

Tek 4260,
You are spot on with your info, I found that my 44mag SRH 9.5" got the best groups with 26 gr of H-110 and a CCI 350 in a Starline Case behind the same bullet from Mihec. I crimp to the longest seating groove the one to the rear. All the cases fall from the cylinder without using the ejection rod and primers have no sign of over pressure as well. The load with 25 grains shoots almost as well and I have decided to use the 25 grain load for the extra head room on pressure, I can still hit Clay pigeons at 200 yards with it, oh and it does not have much for recoil. It is higher velocity that is needed for Deer at 50 yards or less but has what it takes at 200 yards which is my furthest shot I am comfortable with out of that handgun, if I want to shoot further than that I will use My 06.
I will have to warn anyone not to use that load without carefully working up, any time you change powder lot number you must start over again, do not seat to the shortest groove as it would cause extreme pressure increases. Seating with the extra case capacity keeps pressures down. Also pressure signs by reading primers and cases is not an exact science.
For your information +P loading information use 24 grains of h-110 even behind a Hornady 300 grain Jacketed for the SRH.

I realize this will open a can of worms and I will get a lot of flack about this load, but it is what it is.
I have been hand loading for over 40 years and have always worked each load up separate for each firearm, tens of thousands of rounds, never had a problem, not my first rodeo. Just keep in mind everyone has the rigt to their own opinion but that does not make the opinion right.
I find the information here on this sight to be some of the best out there for cast bullets, but you do need to weed out some things that are said, there is no one person on this site that has all the answers, and there is sometimes more than one road that you can take that will lead you to your destination.

[BCB]

I was talking O.C.L. for both boolits…

If you run out of length for the cartridge to chamber in a given cylinder, with the 300 grainer and if the 240 grainer still has enough bearing surface in the case to crimp in place—crimp groove or no crimp groove as the length of the 300 grainer, you certainly have more powder room and less pressure…

I load several cast boolit rounds that I crimp, lightly, on the boolit in places other than the crimp groove…

My point, it is most unlikely that any 300+ grainer could have more powder space than a 240 grainer…

Don’t know if the loads listed for the 300 grainers are maximum or not, but I do know, they are crowding the situation…

Just my thoughts…

Good-luck…BCB

[tek4260]

I'll take a pic after church of the boolit pictured above next to a 240 to give an idea of how much space it takes up. I honestly don't know the difference.

Here is the original thread that started the thought after I ordered the mold.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=109364

[BCB]

I'll take a pic after church of the boolit pictured above next to a 240 to give an idea of how much space it takes up. I honestly don't know the difference.

Here is the original thread that started the thought after I ordered the mold.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=109364

tek4260,

In all honesty, I guess I am just talking "generic" boolits of the given weights...

I dang straight could be wrong about the powder space...

But, the bottom line, if they shoot good and no signs of pressure--I wish I had some of them!!!

Good-luck...BCB

[tek4260]

Well, anytime you start talking above book max, you get your head taken off by someone. Kind of a knee jerk reaction I think. Seems to me that more revolvers have been taken apart by people trying to be frugal and using a few flakes of some fast powder than by someone pushing the envelope with slow powders.

Now as to the 26gr load with these boolits, this is for the Ruger RH and SRH only. It is a heavy built revolver with enough cylinder length to do it, but the most important thing to me is the offset bolt notches. Seems that is where others fail first.

FWIW, have you looked at the cylinder of a 480 SRH? That thing is THIN and it runs in the neighborhood of 48K where the 44 runs somewhere around 38K.


Anyway, here is the picture. The 240 sits marginally deeper than this 300.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/DSCN0269.jpg

[BCB]

Well, a pic is worth a thousand words…

Someone who designed the boolit was thinking…

Does that thing have 2 or 3 crimp grooves…

Yep, the Ruger stuff seems to handle such heavy loads…

As a matter of fact, I was “hot rodin” my Blackhawk 45 Colt a bit this morning…

Still, not to the weights of H-110 that I have seen listed here, there, and other places…

Recoil is a bit furious for sure…

BCB

[leadman]

This is the principle Elmer Keith used when designing his 44cal SWC. He put more of the base of the bullet outside the case to gain more room inside the case.

I use 24grs of WC680 with the Lee 310gr RFN loaded long. Velocity is about 1,050 fps and great accuracy at least to 200 yards. Also shot thru and elk at 75 yards with no problem. Less case expansion than my 250gr Keith boolit with 8 grs of Unique.

[justinhip]

The best accuracy from a Ruger with that boolit is 21.5 gr of 296 with a STANDARD primer. I use the Fed 150.
Any increase or decrease will start to open groups.
That load gives me around 1320 fps from a 10" barrel.
A SRH should do 1/2" to 1" at 50 yards with it.
Give it a try, mag primers triple my groups. They never go in my .44.

Thats interesting, is it dirty?

[justinhip]

This has been some great info, however i am abit leery about 26 grains of 296 but it has caught my interest. I normally load down, way down for cas loads in my 44's. This is my first at trying get as much power as possible with reasonable accuracy.

[stubert]

With a long cylinder, like in the Ruger's, that boolit can be seated to 1.7" or so. a 240 has a crimp groove that will put it at 1.6. That is where the extra space for powder comes from. That said , I use 21.3 gr. 296 and it will go through any deer in New York from any angle.

[fatnhappy]

This has been some great info, however i am abit leery about 26 grains of 296 but it has caught my interest. I normally load down, way down for cas loads in my 44's. This is my first at trying get as much power as possible with reasonable accuracy.

Which begs the question, what are you using this load for? You've piqued my curiousity only because I've come full circle with the heavyweight .44s.

[justinhip]

Which begs the question, what are you using this load for? You've piqued my curiousity only because I've come full circle with the heavyweight .44s.

Its a hunting load, mostly white tail with the possibility of feral pigs or bear........ I picked the 310 because i like the wide meplat and can't seem to find a 240 mold with that kinda profile.

I did get out test test some more and id say accuracy was miserable at best. I was all over at 25 yds and was beginning to think it was all me. As i wrapped up i fired some 240 xtp's over 23 g of 296 and my accuracy was substantially better. The probems are still mostly me but was better. With the 310's i went as high as 23g but suprisingly felt no different with no pressure signs. I think my other problem is that im a rookie caster. My boolits came out pretty good and had a bunch of rejects. I sized them to .430. What I dont like is that the gas check fit loose and even after seating, they could still be rotated. Thought about buying some commercial 310's but am thinking maybe the 240's may be a better choice.

[fisheadgib]

One thing that you might consider is to weigh your bullets after you cast them. I use that same bullet and I probably have more molds for 44mags than any other bullet but the 310gr RNFPGC is my favorite. Since you point out that you're new at casting there's a possibility that you're not scrutinizing your bullets close enough. I alloy them to a 22BHN and the weights range from 300gr to 308gr once they're lubed and gas checked. I use the heaviest ones (308gr +/-1gr) for hunting and everything else is a plinker. Your messed up accuracy may be from inconsistent weights as almost any load I've tried with this bullet in any of my 44mag pistols or rifles has shot well. I have never experienced the loose gas checks with this bullet though. Your alloy may be shrinking as it cools is the only reason I can think of for this. I push mine with 22gr of H110 and get 1200fps out of my 5.5"SBH.

[44man]

I don't like that boolit and see too many things that might not be right.
We need more to weigh in on that.
I thought you were talking about the LeeC430-310-RF which shoots good.
I would also see if they cast large enough to size .431" or .432".

[justinhip]

I weighed all my bullets (w/o gas checks) and half weighed about 299g and some were 301-302. My gas checks for the most part weighed in at 7g. One of the things I was thinking about is when I sized them to .430 some didnt really drop dia if at all. What would make them shrink? I water quench my bullets. The alloy is about a 15 bhn. There is no signs of leading after about 75 rounds. Ordinarily I use a water quenched alloy of an 8bhn from a sailboat keel shooting both full power 240 swcgc and 200g rn for cas without issue. A .430 sized bullet fits my cylinder throat however I can shake the gun to make it drop, is that too loose?

[justinhip]

I wonder if my mold is *****. I just picked up a 250g lyman devvastator and cast both the 250 and took another shot at the 310 using the same lead as last time. The lyman cast up nice and the gas checks fit right. The 310's look great but the gas checks are still loose, once crimped they stay on but can rotate. Im waitng for a 431 sizer which will hopefully be here today.

[44man]

When I have loose gas checks I lap that section of the mold a little.
One time I set up a Lee FCD to crimp the checks.

[sisiphunter]

I use the Lee 310gr, I paperpatch it. Use Fed Mag pistol primer and 18 gr of 296. Seems to be my most accurate load with PP.

In my marlin carbine lever i am getting 1410fps. Great load in the rifle, just sticky on chambering everyonce in a while. In my Super Blackhawk it shoots very well, at least as well as I can shoot that day. Havnt chrono'd out of the revolver yet though.