Winchester Model 43

[Denver]

I have a model 43 Win in 218 Bee that I bought as a used gun back in the 60's. Didn't use it much as it has excess headspace and the cases will separate after about three firings. I'm wondering if rechambering it to one of the wildcat versions such as the 218 Ackley, would solve the problem? Setting the barrel back and rechambering would be another way, but not something I would do myself and would likely be kinda pricey. Also maybe I could fire form cases with a low pressue load and then neck size them only for subsequent loadings? Any other thoughts or ideas appreciated.

Thanks :lovebooli

[frank505]

I have 218 Mashburn reamer you could buy if interested. $75.00 shipped to conus.

[Mk42gunner]

Since a .218 Bee is a rimmed case improving the chamber wouldn't change the dimension, in a perfect world.

I would try necksizing the cases first.

Robert

[Bret4207]

I have the same thing. Fit the brass to the chamber first Another thing that can be done is to have the bolt and receiver recess built up with electroplating. Even home smiths have done this back in the day.

[Denver]

Since a .218 Bee is a rimmed case improving the chamber wouldn't change the dimension, in a perfect world.

I would try necksizing the cases first.

Robert

Thanks for your input. I was thinking about the rechamber idea if neck sizing the cases didn't pan out. Seems like if the chamber was cut slightly short, then the case would headspace on the shoulder instead of the rim, assuming that the newly reamed chamber would wipe out the old one.

[Molly]

Denver, setting the barrel back and rechambering is the officially correct way to fix excess headspace, but it's expensive.

There are two cheap, simple and easy approaches to fix your problem. First, use a mild fireforming load and shoot it in a greasy chamber. The shoulder will blow forward as the case slides back to fill the chamber. The slightly greasy chamber will let the case slide instead of griping the chamber walls. This means you aren't going to stretch the brass. Get about three or four cases and send them to RCBS. RCBS will make up a set of dies matched to your individual chamber. This works fine, and it's a lot cheaper than setting the barrel back.

You can also do about the same thing with your current dies and it won't cost you anything but some time. Fireform ALL of your cases in a greasy chamber. Then coat one of them with soot (use a candle) and put it in your reloading press. Lower the sizing die very slowly, say about an eighth of a turn at a time. When it removes some soot from the shoulder of the case, stop right there and tighten the lock ring to save this setting. Use this setting to size your cases from then on. Your fireformed cases will now headspace on the shoulder, and you will get good case life. Cheap, easy, simple, safe and utterly reliable.

[flounderman]

you will get better accuracy by only neck sizing 1/2 to 2/3 of the neck instead of neck sizing all the way to the shoulder. the only time I would size the complete neck would be with a hard recoiling rifle, or maybe a tubular magazine. if you were going to rechamber you could find a small rimmed caliber with a thicker rim like the 22 jet, but you should get by with just partially neck sizing and your accuracy will improve.

[Frank46]

Might be wrong about this as it has been a bunch of years since I had a model 43. If I remember
right (CRS) the bolt body is a two piece assembly. A small shim washer inserted between the two pieces should get the headspace back to normal. Now I could be wrong and it won't be the first time. Frank

[rufgr]

Yes, the easiest way to bring these rifles back to correct headspace is to put a shim between the bolt body and bolt cocking piece. You can determine how thick the washer needs to be by firing a primed case. The washer should be about
.002" thinner than the primer protrusion.

[Denver]

Thanks all for the great information. I had thought about shimming the bolt, but thought it might have to be done at the bolt face. Never would have thought about putting it in the bolt body. If that works it would save a lot of diddlin' around with the cases. I want to get a mold and try some cast in it if I can get the case separation problem solved.

Thanks again guys. :bigsmyl2:

[Bret4207]

The shim may well work, but check and see if the lug/recess is setback like mine is. Hold the bolt handle to the rear and see if it moves FORWARD when you lift it. If it does your lug or the recess is set back and that's where the electroplating comes in. Hope that's clear enough to understand.

[Denver]

Bret;

I can detect no movement of the bolt while doing as you mention. Also there appears to be no wear on the bolt handle or the bolt cut in the receiver. I can get a very small amount of movement of the handle with the bolt uncocked and closed, but that appears to be in the handle sleeve itself. With the bolt cocked, that movement is much less. After prepping the cases as Molly suggested, the bolt closes on a loaded round with a litttle more resistance, so I'm thinking that the excess space is being taken up as planned. I'm on the 4th loading of the cases, and so far I'm not seeing the usual signs of head separation. If I get by the next firing without any problem, I'll believe I'm on the right track.

[Bret4207]

Good for you then! I traded into my 43 and never gave hot loads a thought. I was shooting some factory stuff (!!! I know, I've sinned) when I noticed the set back. Stupid me for not checking. Someday I'll do the electro plate thing.

[gzig5]

I'm coming in late but I was going to suggest that it may be that the shoulder is being set back too far by the sizing die and overworking the case. This is where a tool like a Stoney Point is very valuable, enabling you to measure how much the die is moving the shoulder back.
Because it headspaces off the rim ( and it sounds like you don't have excessive head space), partial full length sizing or neck sizing only will keep the rifle shooting. Another way to check headspace is to put a layers of scotch tape or the thin aluminum duct tape on the head of a case and try it in the chamber. If the action closes easily, add another layer until you feel resistance. I don't know the spec off hand, but if you don't exceed .006-.008" of tape you are probably OK. Obviously, rim thickness will affect this measurement and a proper headspace gauge or approximation of one, is better.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I remember back in the 1960s, in the opinion of many, the 43 was not strong enough for cartridges like the Bee or Hornet. Never owned one myself so I have no first hand experience.

[barnaclebill]

I also just acquired a 218 Bee with a Redfield scope mounted. I understand that the only barrel drilled for a scope was in 1958. Is there any marking that would identify the year of the Bee? I would like to know if the holes are original.

[rufgr]

The 1953 edition of the Shooters Bible staes that the Model 43 has the "reciever drilled and tapped for several popular scope mounts." The 1952 edition does not mention this. It has also been my understanding that rifles that have a bevel on the chamber side of the receiver receiver bridge were not factory drilled.

[KCSO]

Here is a fix one of my customers used on a 25-20 ss, he put a small dent in the rim of the case so that when it was fired it was held back against the breech block. Then after fire forming he simply neck sized the brass so it headspaced on the shoulder.