Im not sure what just happened

[x101airborne]

So I was practicing with my 54 cal thompson hawken a while ago in the back yard. I had fired four or five shots and made some adjustments to the sights when all of a sudden on the sixth shot, BOOM!!!! That rifle slapped me like I was sixteen fighting my father in the yard again. The rifle did not suffer any noticable damage, but my shoulder is shore nuff sore and I remember hearing my jaw crack, my back and my neck is sore. I know I did not overcharge the rifle or use the wrong boolit. My load is a Winchester BP magnum #11 primer, pyrodex FFG 110 grains volume, 260 grain 44 cal boolit in a harvester sabot.

Is it possible that I left a small amount of airspace between the powder and the boolit? The only reason I ask is the only thing I know of that I have not done as a new black powder shooter, is I have not marked my rod to the proper seating depth. I was waiting to find out what load was going to work the best before I marked anything.

Any ideas are appreciated. I know yall cannot know for sure what my ignorant posterior did while I was alone, but if there is a common reason for these incidents, I would like to know. Dang my bell got rung.....:groner:

[1911sw45]

Sounds like an air gap. Glad your all right and the muzzle load is ok.

Adam

[tomme boy]

Or two bullets

[twotoescharlie]

why are you shooting such a heavy load for target practicing?

TTC

[Gtek]

Pyro makes hard ring area just forward of ignition area in mine. Clean bore really well, start over. Wrap a piece of masking tape on rod at your desired first load. Sabots do not like bore lube to much, but- Try a spit patch then dry patch or a (light) bore butter patch and clean patch dry between shots if push to seat is tough. +1 on air gap theory. Gtek

[x101airborne]

twotoescharlie... Well, really, I am not sure why. I was told to practice with what I am going to hunt with.... so there I am. I have no experience and am just going on what others have told me. In military terms... I'm a shaved head louie at this point. I need a PFC to tell me what to do.

I have the bore soaking right now. I will clean it and start over. The curious thing is that the first shot at 50 yards with a clean barrel hit dead on for elevation and one inch right. The more I shot, the more the impact moved right.

[Nobade]

Is your ramrod still present?

[x101airborne]

JaVole, Mein Herr. Ramrod still present and accounted for.

[405]

Whew! Thank your lucky stars. Don't know about the air gap... possible I guess- especially since Pyro leaves such a HARD fouling residue. Also, Pyrodex has a habit of running pressures pretty high if everything is not just right and that powder charge seems pretty stiff to begin with. The other thing is an "ooops" moment and two bullets were loaded. I quit Pyrodex about 35 years ago and my experiments with sabot'd ML ammo about 15 years ago convinced me.... uh..... I don't want to get sent to the wood shed by the Mods. :)

[largom]

I say it was an air space. Do as Gtek said and mark your ramrod with tape until you know what load you are going to use. Set your mark with the first load in a clean barrel. I always practice with my hunting loads unless I am just shooting for fun.

Larry

[Mk42gunner]

If you really think it was an air gap, I would carefully measure the outside of the barrel to make sure no unnoticed expansion took place.

A few measurements across the flats might give you little piece of mind.

Robert

[Fishman]

Is your ramrod still present?

Been there and done that. Rifle has a slight bulge in the middle but still shoots great.

[Gtek]

Soaking? Hot boiling water with a couple drops of dish soap, CLEAN. While to hot to touch with bare hands oil- DONE. Easy check, remove barrel from stock, which it should already be for proper cleaning. Find real straight edge ( machinist type, if not an edge of stainless ruler or of like) and lay on flats in rear area of barrel. Quick and easy visual for bulge. Mine never gets less than 90 grains
and thats just what mine likes. My father used to bounce the rod on patched balls after seat, made me nuts as a kid. I give a hard push to bottom-check mark to confirm. You just need some seat time, just be safe, go slow, and the answers will come. Gtek

[Good Cheer]

Maybe two loads instead of two bullets.

[x101airborne]

Maybe two loads instead of two bullets.

Well, while not impossible, I would say improbable. I guess like all other negligent incidents. I could have mis-measured the charge, but I am using a 150 grain volume measurer from Cabelas to measure my charges. I would have thought that a double charge would have left me missing an eye or worse. After going over the rifle, there is no noticable damage or bulging, so I will chalk this up to the pyrodex ring.

[mooman76]

I would say probably not an overcharge. I have over charges some and while it is noticeable it isn't that much more noticeable. BP and subs get really inefficiant when charging really heavy and mostly you are just waisting powder. I'd go with the others and say you probably had a small air gap. Enough to raise pressure noticeably but not quite enough to do damage fortunately. Lesson for all of us here to watch what we do when loading and not get complacent in what we do.

[Geraldo]

I no longer mark my ramrods. I've got too many rifles and too many range rods to mark them all for individual loads. You may be tired of hearing this, or maybe no one has told you before, but try some real BP instead of the Pyro. For what the subs go for around here, I could buy two pounds of BP mail order, pay the hazmat, and still be even, plus no hard fouling issue.

As for practice, I do not shoot heavy charges. Think about it this way, a lot of people practice with .22 pistols even though they shoot .45acp, or they buy .22 upper for AR practice. Pretty much everybody tells a new shooter to start with a .22, not a .416 Rigby. So why is it better to beat yourself to death during practice with a ML? Do you need to develop a better flinch or just like burning a lot of powder to kill a piece of paper? :kidding:

In .54s I usually shoot 55-60gr FFg on the range. Glad you didn't blow yourself up.

[jeepman133]

It sounds like the sabot wasn't up against the powder. swab your bore between shots. i use a 50/50 mix of windex and 91% alocohol, just slightly damp between shots with pyrodex. it will leave a soft crud ring and it sounds like after 5-6 shots your bullet wasn't seated on the powder. make a witness mark on your ramrod after loading the rifle on a cold clean barrel.as others have said, check the barrel for any damage, just to be safe.

[x101airborne]

Thanks for the opinions and the suggestions, guys. I still have not fired the rifle again since the other day. There was a lot of crud in the barrel when I cleaned it. If that is what pyro does, then I am a non-convert.

I re-watched The Sandpebbles the other day and found a quote that absolutely defined my suprise with the load in question. Jake Holman yells at the coolies.... "What happened? What the hell happened??!!"

[Maven]

x101airborne, Large charges of either BP or Pyrodex will most certainly foul your bore when using conicals (Maxi-Balls or REALs)* or saboted bullets. The solutions range from damp swabbing your bore after each shot or at least every 2nd shot; using less powder; using a different bullet lube (must be BP/Pyrodex compatible); or using a patched** round ball. Swabbing may not be an option when hunting, but it works, and makes seating a 2nd [follow up] bullet quite a bit easier.


*Minie balls are conicals, but typically aren't used with large powder charges.

**The patch is lubricated with saliva (not good in cold weather or if you must wait for a 2nd shot) or one of the BP compatible lubes, e.g., T/C Bore Butter or one of its clones.

[725]

Sabot loads, don't use lube. Says so on the package.
Clean between shots. What the heck when you're at the range, not hunting.
Load and seat consistently.
I tend to get better accuracy with a lesser load.
Best of luck.

[ReloaderEd]

I vote for two bullets and your lucky the TC 54 is a fairly strong rifle. A 110 grains of Pyrodex and a 260 gr. sabot is bad enough but if you double the weight it would have about the result you experienced.
I have a 54 caliber lyman hollow base miniball and after casting a bunch. Loaded onr in my 54 renegade with 90 grs of FFG powder. The projectile slide down the barrel almost by itself, I seated it and thought I would be lucky if it "raddled" down the barrel and got all the way out like it went in.. Wow what a surprise when it darn near knocked me off the bench. I have a knot on my shoulder plus was very humiliated. I can imagine what two of those miniballs stacked with 110grs would do?
I have killed one Elk at almost 200 yds with my 90 grs. of FFG and Bud thats all you need to do the job. Be Safe!!1

[10 ga]

Dittos, " " , for everything Geraldo said! For hunting, first shot best shot, and in ML probably your only shot. Shoot every one like it's your first and only shot. For range practice and time I shoot 55-60 gr. of FF or even F to allow a lot more shooting wo heavy recoil. It'll teach you stuff. In my hammer guns only the elevation changes between heavy hunting and range loads with the same boolit. 10 ga

[curator]

Two loads--its easy to get distracted. Forget its already loaded and put another load in the tube. An airspace would not have created the extra recoil. Recoil is a function of total load weight not burning charactoristics.

[Gtek]

Please someone help, I cannot find the right words. Gtek

[Chicken Thief]

Please someone help, I cannot find the right words. Gtek

Here you go my friend:
http://www.oxfordadvancedlearnersdictionary.com/

[Hanshi]

A similar thing happened to me once with a .50 flintlock. I never was able to pin down the cause and the rifle remained a tackdriver.