43 Spanish Mold

[43spanish]

I acquired a nice, early model, Remington Rolling Block rifle in 43 Spanish and wish to shoot it. My gunsmith said the bore is very nice. He slugged it and said it measures .440 - .442. He said one of the grooves might have been cut a bit deep. My question is: can I get a .440 bullet mold, or should I use the common .439? Or do you have any other ideas? It is, of course, a black powder cartridge round. I have reloaded modern ammo, but am new to black powder cartridge, so any information is appreciated.

[405]

I have one and it's groove dia. is .442. So, been down that road. Some of the .440 molds may work OK. I tried some with so-so results. I finally just designed a mold myself. Used the Mountain Mold online feature and ordered one. It drops a .444 diameter grease groove/gas checked bullet weighing .380 gr. with alloy of about BHN 12. I use a honed-out Lee push thru die of .443. I pan lube with a fairly soft lube good for both BP & smokeless. My favorite load is 21 gr. 5744 with .75gr of high loft dacron filler. I seat the bullet out so the front drive band just contacts the bore leade and do not crimp the case mouth. That load produces excellent accuracy in my gun with a MV of 1144 fps with an SD of 11 fps. The BP load of 65 gr FF with fiber base wad produces fine results but the mild 5744 smokeless load is the most consistent.

[John Boy]

He slugged it and said it measures .440 - .442.
43, something is not clicking in my head ...
My "Argentino Modello 1879 EN" stamped on the receiver '43 Spanish' RRB has bore dimensions of 431/439. It is a 11.15x58R caliber with a bottle neck case. There is also the 43 Spanish Reformado (11.5x57R) '43 Spanish' that is a straight wall case that shoots a 454 bullet.
Powder Charges:
11.15x58R = 78gr Fg
11.5x57R = 74gr Fg

Before you go any further, suggest you take a chamber cast to determine if it is
a bottle neck case or a straight wall case, plus the case length and identify any stamp markings on the receiver

[MtGun44]

WWt alloy .439 boolits shoot poorly in mine. One day I will lap it out a few thousandths and
try again.

Bill

[43spanish]

43, something is not clicking in my head ...
My "Argentino Modello 1879 EN" stamped on the receiver '43 Spanish' RRB has bore dimensions of 431/439. It is a 11.15x58R caliber with a bottle neck case. There is also the 43 Spanish Reformado (11.5x57R) '43 Spanish' that is a straight wall case that shoots a 454 bullet.
Powder Charges:
11.15x58R = 78gr Fg
11.5x57R = 74gr Fg

Before you go any further, suggest you take a chamber cast to determine if it is
a bottle neck case or a straight wall case, plus the case length and identify any stamp markings on the receiver

Thank you all responses! Non-clicking is great. I've asked my gunsmith to do a chamber cast...but he is busy. A visual and a feel of the chamber shows a definite bottle neck toward the rifling. I do think it is 43 Spanish, but will await confirmation in a day or two.

[leadman]

Lyman has a mold for the 43 Mauser that casts a .446" boolit that may work for you. It does well in my 43 Mauser.

[Buckshot]

...............I have a 1879 contract Argentine Remington RB in .43 Spanish I'd bought many years ago for $165. I use both the Lyman and RCBS slugs in it.

http://www.fototime.com/23E5560C8BB6BF7/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/7CD7CAD02940F78/standard.jpg

These are a few 50 yard groups fired with it. About 6 years ago Dan at Mountian moulds made up a design for them dropping a Loverin type 420gr slug. It carried a LOT of lube, and was aimed at the use of loading with BP. My rifle's groove is .439" but it will accept (barely) a round with a slug sized .441" so that's what I size'm. Actually not much sizing is done as that's about what they drop from the mould at. The only photo of the rifle I have is this one of it amongst it's peers. It's obviously the one in front :-)

http://www.fototime.com/CFE4FB6484BDAE6/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/4B9EBE131ADC269/standard.jpg

LEFT: The rifles have LONG throats. The upended slug in the casemouth shows the length of the throat, which is about 1/2". RIGHT: This is a 525gr Saeco 45 cal slug that was sized .450" and then driven into the breech of the barrel to get a picture of the leade. The pink lines show the width (short) and angle (steep) of the leade.

I did try (once) loading and shooting BP in it without much success, but I only tried once:D BN cases are supposed to require more finesse, and my supply of finesse was in rather short supply at the time. A couple suggestions I can make to add a bit of variety into the boolit supply is to take the Lyman and RCBS moulds intended for the M71/84 Mauser (.446") and use them re-sized. Lube/size to .446" then run them up through a .440/.441/.442" (whatever your rifle will swallow) Lee type die.

Another recomendation is again either the Lyman or RCBS slugs for the .43 Spanish, lube/size to .439" then run'em up through a .433/.434" Lee type push through, remove the lube and paper patch them using 9# airmail paper.

...............Buckshot

[43spanish]

That is a very nice looking rolling block. Mine has no metal finish left to speak of. The stock is solid but dark and dinged. It has brass barrel bands with the spring keepers - two of which I am replacing.

[43spanish]

I have one and it's groove dia. is .442. So, been down that road. Some of the .440 molds may work OK. I tried some with so-so results. I finally just designed a mold myself. Used the Mountain Mold online feature and ordered one. It drops a .444 diameter grease groove/gas checked bullet weighing .380 gr. with alloy of about BHN 12. I use a honed-out Lee push thru die of .443. I pan lube with a fairly soft lube good for both BP & smokeless. My favorite load is 21 gr. 5744 with .75gr of high loft dacron filler. I seat the bullet out so the front drive band just contacts the bore leade and do not crimp the case mouth. That load produces excellent accuracy in my gun with a MV of 1144 fps with an SD of 11 fps. The BP load of 65 gr FF with fiber base wad produces fine results but the mild 5744 smokeless load is the most consistent.

Great info. What do you mean a honed out die? Are there dies available ready to use?

[43spanish]

43, something is not clicking in my head ...
My "Argentino Modello 1879 EN" stamped on the receiver '43 Spanish' RRB has bore dimensions of 431/439. It is a 11.15x58R caliber with a bottle neck case. There is also the 43 Spanish Reformado (11.5x57R) '43 Spanish' that is a straight wall case that shoots a 454 bullet.
Powder Charges:
11.15x58R = 78gr Fg
11.5x57R = 74gr Fg

Before you go any further, suggest you take a chamber cast to determine if it is
a bottle neck case or a straight wall case, plus the case length and identify any stamp markings on the receiver

No caliber markings on the gun. The receiver top tang has the Remington and patent dates marked. The barrel has a B on the left side near the breech. Brass barrel bands secured by spring keepers. A couple bands have a crown logo on one side. Still waiting on the chamber cast.

[405]

43spanish,

For sizing and seating/sizing gas checks for these type bullets I prefer the Lee push thru cast bullet sizer. Since I needed to size my bullets for my 43 Span to .443, I had to get the next smaller size Lee die, a .430. I then lapped it out to .443.

May I suggest that if you are serious about gettng your gun and ammo to do its best, you invest in a book or two. I am assuming yours is in fact the 43 Spanish. Two EXCELLENT books I like are: Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West by Mike Venturino and Shooting The .43 Spanish Rolling Block by Croft Barker.
Venturino's book covers all manner of single shots including the 43 Spanish rolling block. Barker's book obviously is exclusive to the RB contract guns- primarily the .43 Spanish. Can't have enough reference material :)

To save yourself a lot of iffy results and possible headaches I'd recommend getting .43 Spanish brass to begin with or "44 basic" brass which can handily be resized to .43 Spanish. You can call BACO or check out the Buffalo Arms website. (aka BACO) for various specialty items.

In addition to a good bullet mold that casts the RIGHT bullet and starting with the correct brass, you'll need dies and the right shell holder. The correct shell holder for 43 Spanish brass is, IIRC, #17.

Getting the sights to work is another topic :) Good Luck!

[43spanish]

Thanks 405.
Yes, I am serious about this project. I intend to target shoot for accuracy and also hunt with it. I just got the Matthews book on black powder cartridges and have the 43 Spanish book on order. I wonder if the 430 size die would be acceptable for my rifle. I wish I knew where the 432 was in the barrel. If it's toward the muzzle it wouldn't really be an issue.

[405]

43spanish,

Re-check your numbers....430-432??? If your gunsmith slugged it and was correct in his measurements then the minimum cast bullet size should be .442-.443.

For getting the most out of the rifle some consideration should be given to better sights. But, once you start shooting it that will become apparent.

[43spanish]

43spanish,

Re-check your numbers....430-432??? If your gunsmith slugged it and was correct in his measurements then the minimum cast bullet size should be .442-.443.

For getting the most out of the rifle some consideration should be given to better sights. But, once you start shooting it that will become apparent.

My mistake. The slug miked 440 to 442.

[43spanish]

My mistake. The slug miked 440 to 442.

I talked to a fellow who sells original rolling block parts and suggested I might install different sights...he saw pics of the rifle and said he would think twice about modifying it in any way...said it's nice for its age. Perhaps there's a way to attach a peep sight to the rear sight ladder....

[405]

43spanish,

First, in an earlier post you said there was a "B" stamped on the left side of the barrel just in front of the receiver ring? My gun has an "R" with serifs stamped in that location. You might look at it again.

Short answer to the sight question... yes there is a way to put on a peep rear sight without altering the original gun. If your gun is in nice, original condition then I agree... you probably don't want to go drilling and cutting!:)

If you have the normal original battle sights.... they give a somewhat crude sight picture so do nothing for accurate/precise shooting. Additionally, the lowest rear sight setting given the short front barley corn sight puts the "lowest zero" at something like 200-250 yds. That puts the lowest setting, point of impact at something like 10-12" high at 50 yards!

On mine I fabricated a taller front blade out a piece of sheet metal (I've had to do it on several similar, older rifles). Then simply JB'd it to the front sight to increase it's height. That can be reversed with no harm by adding a little heat to break the epoxy. Then I removed the rear sight assembly and rigged a pieced- together Williams rear peep assembly and used one of the existing drilled/tapped holes in the barrel. That rigged peep now sits very low atop the flat surface just in front of the receiver ring. By doing that I get the longest sight radius without rigging a tang sight (which is problematic in rolling blocks!) and it allows for a reasonable front sight height. If that rear sight is very tall it forces the the front sight to be extremely tall because of barrel contour. All this can be done with some imagination and it can be done so it won't harm the original condition of the gun as it can be reversed. There are probably many ways to re-do these sights. This is only one way and it seems to work well. With my sights I can zero anywhere between 50 yards and about 200. I have plenty of windage with this setup. For more elevation for longer ranges I'd have to go to either a ladder with peep or rig a tang sight and figure how to attach it without drilling/tapping another hole in the tang... maybe some more JB? If you just add a peep to the existing ladder barrel sight you may not be able to set it low enough to zero at the more practical shorter ranges without adding a lot of height to the front.

I will go take a couple of pics of the setup and add to this post in a few minutes.

Oh and will add a pic of the 380 gr .444" sized to .443" Mountain Molds bullet I use that does exceptionally well in my gun... to keep the thread on original subject :)

Hope this helps.

[43spanish]

Thanks 405! I think I will machine an adapter for a rear peep sight. I can't see well up close with glasses on, but can't see far without them. A peep might well serve my purpose as it can be blurry anyway. I will get the same bullet making mold and die...sounds like you did my work for me. How is a die enlarged? I wonder if one of the reloading companies will make a 443 die...

[405]

First I guess make sure it is a 43 Spanish. I would imagine it is. Then for reloading dies... I think Lee makes a set- although the universal case neck mouth belling die leaves something to be desired- but it will work.

Now for the bullet sizing die. Buckshot who posted earlier on this thread, has in the past, lapped out Lee push thru dies for members- so you might contact him and see if he is still doing it. Or, you can contact Lee directly and order a custom push thru die to your specs- the last time I checked it cost about $30 and took an unknown length of time. Or, you can do it yourself with a hand drill or drill press- I prefer a drill press. It's not hard but will take some time because you'll have to start with a .430" die and open it up to .442-.443.". I think there is a thread going on now on the forum about lapping out Lee push thrus. There are also many posts/threads in the past on the forum about this so you might search the archives.

link to current Lee die lapping
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=126541

[badgeredd]

43spanish,

You might want to contact Buckshot here on the forum for a custom made push thru sizing die made for the size (likely .443 to .444) you desire. He does it regularly for a very reasonable cost.
Also Buckshot has numerous rifle of unusual types and should be an excellent source of info to get you shooting as well as possible with your gun including loads and alloys that work well.

Edd

[43spanish]

405 what's the copper color ring on the base of the bullet?

[405]

43spanish,
That's a gas check. Not in pure historic context with the normal cartridge technology of 1871 but hey, the 43 Spanish Reformado cartridge of 1867 with it's jacketed bullet was not very "normal" either :):)

[43spanish]

...............I have a 1879 contract Argentine Remington RB in .43 Spanish I'd bought many years ago for $165. I use both the Lyman and RCBS slugs in it.

http://www.fototime.com/23E5560C8BB6BF7/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/7CD7CAD02940F78/standard.jpg

These are a few 50 yard groups fired with it. About 6 years ago Dan at Mountian moulds made up a design for them dropping a Loverin type 420gr slug. It carried a LOT of lube, and was aimed at the use of loading with BP. My rifle's groove is .439" but it will accept (barely) a round with a slug sized .441" so that's what I size'm. Actually not much sizing is done as that's about what they drop from the mould at. The only photo of the rifle I have is this one of it amongst it's peers. It's obviously the one in front :-)

http://www.fototime.com/CFE4FB6484BDAE6/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/4B9EBE131ADC269/standard.jpg

LEFT: The rifles have LONG throats. The upended slug in the casemouth shows the length of the throat, which is about 1/2". RIGHT: This is a 525gr Saeco 45 cal slug that was sized .450" and then driven into the breech of the barrel to get a picture of the leade. The pink lines show the width (short) and angle (steep) of the leade.

I did try (once) loading and shooting BP in it without much success, but I only tried once:D BN cases are supposed to require more finesse, and my supply of finesse was in rather short supply at the time. A couple suggestions I can make to add a bit of variety into the boolit supply is to take the Lyman and RCBS moulds intended for the M71/84 Mauser (.446") and use them re-sized. Lube/size to .446" then run them up through a .440/.441/.442" (whatever your rifle will swallow) Lee type die.

Another recomendation is again either the Lyman or RCBS slugs for the .43 Spanish, lube/size to .439" then run'em up through a .433/.434" Lee type push through, remove the lube and paper patch them using 9# airmail paper.

...............Buckshot

My gunsmith offically says after a chamber cast that the rifle is .43 Spanish. I do not wish to paper patch my bullets. Shall I then buy a .446 mold and resize it to .443 or .444 (considering my bore is .440 - .442)? Or should I simply shoot the .446 bullet? Also, I read about Jamison Brass for obsolete cartridges. They make a .43 Spanish brass. Does anyone have experience with it? Does it have a thick rim to eliminate the head space problem?

[405]

Don't know what the rim thickness is for Jamison 43 Span brass. BACO might have some on hand (or some Jamison of a similar cartridge that will likely have the same rim thickness) and if you call them they could possibly put a mic or caliper on one for you. I use Bertram brass that has the thick rim so I have no headspace issues.

I think that the .446" Mauser diameter bullet might be too much of a good thing and it might not even chamber. But, I imagine you could easily size that bullet down to .442" or so.

www.buffaloarms.com

[43spanish]

Question has arisen. Diameter of the chamber cast shows the case tapers from .529 in front of the rim, to .519 in front of the shoulder. Neck thickness is .467 straight on into the rifling. Is the 43 Spanish case tapered this way? It can't be the reformado as the case would be way too short. Where can I find specs on these case dimensions?

[405]

I would imagine chamber specs varied quite a bit in the 1870s :)

COTW lists the following specs for the 43 Spanish:
Neck dia.--------------.458
Shoulder dia.----------.512
Base dia.--------------.516
Rim dia.---------------.635
Case L.---------------2.25

Here's a pic of 43 Spanish and the Reformado cartridges.

From left to right:

43 Spanish that I load- 380 MM gas checked bullet sized to .443 that I shoot in my 1879 Argen. contract Rem RB

43 Spanish ca M1871 cast lead BP original (for the M1879 Argen. contract Rem RB)

43 Spanish ca M1871 paper patched BP original (for the M1879 Argen. contract Rem RB)

Reformado ca M1867 brass jacketed bullet BP original (for early Spanish contract Rem RB)

[43spanish]

I would imagine chamber specs varied quite a bit in the 1870s :)

COTW lists the following specs for the 43 Spanish:
Neck dia.--------------.458
Shoulder dia.----------.512
Base dia.--------------.516
Rim dia.---------------.635
Case L.---------------2.25

Here's a pic of 43 Spanish and the Reformado cartridges.

From left to right:

43 Spanish that I load- 380 MM gas checked bullet sized to .443 that I shoot in my 1879 Argen. contract Rem RB

43 Spanish ca M1871 cast lead BP original (for the M1879 Argen. contract Rem RB)

43 Spanish ca M1871 paper patched BP original (for the M1879 Argen. contract Rem RB)

Reformado ca M1867 brass jacketed bullet BP original (for early Spanish contract Rem RB)

Ok looks like 43 Spanish case tapers slightly toward shoulder. My measurements follow the same pattern you gave, all of them being just slightly. The larger neck diameter might help me to seat a larger diameter boolit. What do you think about the neck size being the same as the throat, where the rifling begins?

[405]

Well, the body on just about all old cartridges/chambers do have quite a bit of taper mostly to aid in extractions because of the weak extractor systems of the time.... as opposed to the more positive "Mauser" style bolt action extraction. The 43 Spanish is a bottle-necked cartridge but the neck portion is parallel. Also, I assume the specs provided by COTW are for nominal cartridge measurements. So the nominal chamber measurements will be slightly larger in all dimensions.

If you double the neck wall thickness of the case and add that to the bullet diameter.... then you're chamber neck diameter should be about .004" or more larger to ensure smooth bullet release during ignition. Custom, target/match type chambers are usually the only ones where that neck clearance is less that about .004". Even if you can chamber a round and have some neck clearance with the .446" bullet, I'm not sure it would be the best size to use. I've found anywhere from groove diameter up to a max of about .002" larger than groove diameter works the best for cast bullets depending on load and rifle. And, in many black powder rounds the bullets are sized closer to bore diameter than groove diameter.... so subsequent rounds can be chambered even with powder fouling in the throat and leade.... they rely on obturation during initial acceleration to "bump up" to closer to groove diameter to take the rifling.

[43spanish]

Well, the body on just about all old cartridges/chambers do have quite a bit of taper mostly to aid in extractions because of the weak extractor systems of the time.... as opposed to the powerful camming "Mauser" style bolt action extraction. The 43 Spanish is a bottle-necked cartridge but the neck portion is parallel. Also, I assume the specs provided by COTW are for nominal cartridge measurements. So the nominal chamber measurements will be slightly larger in all dimensions.

If you double the neck wall thickness of the case and add that to the bullet diameter.... then you're chamber neck diameter should be about .004" or more larger to ensure smooth bullet release during ignition. Custom, target/match type chambers are usually the only ones where that neck clearance is less that about .004". Even if you can chamber a round and have some neck clearance with the .446" bullet, I'm not sure it would be the best size to use. I've found anywhere from groove diameter up to a max of about .002" larger than groove diameter works the best for cast bullets depending on load and rifle. And, in many black powder rounds the bullets are sized closer to bore diameter than groove diameter.... so subsequent rounds can be chambered even with powder fouling in the throat and leade.... they rely on obturation during initial acceleration to "bump up" to closer to groove diameter to take the rifling.

Ok, so my max bullet diameter would be .444, minimum .440. Guess I'll start at .440 and move up from there.

[405]

Yes, starting at .440 and working up to .444..... or where you get best function and accuracy.... is a good plan. If you use a Lee push thru bullet sizer you can start at .440-.441 and see how it shoots. Then if it looks like larger would be better it is really very simple to lap the die out a thou or two and try again. If you start out with a .444+ sized die.... no way to make it smaller :)

[Buckshot]

.............Yup, what 405 said. For a slug I'd use the RCBS intended for the .43 Mauser (Nominal .446"). Mine drops from the mould using WW alloy at .448". Lubesize in a .446" die then send it up through a Lee .440" die (I do have a .441" in stock :shock:).

...............Buckshot

[43spanish]

.............Yup, what 405 said. For a slug I'd use the RCBS intended for the .43 Mauser (Nominal .446"). Mine drops from the mould using WW alloy at .448". Lubesize in a .446" die then send it up through a Lee .440" die (I do have a .441" in stock :shock:).

...............Buckshot

So if I desired a bullet larger than .441 I could enlarge your die a bit?

[Buckshot]

So if I desired a bullet larger than .441 I could enlarge your die a bit?

...........Yup, mine or even Lee's! :D

...............Buckshot

[43spanish]

Question. My 43 Spanish Remington rolling block is service-ready. I see there are two bullet molds which might be used: the RCBS 43 Spanish bullet mold, and also an 11mm Mauser bullet mold, both .446 diameter. Does anyone have any idea which might be more accurate? It looks like the Mauser bullet might be shorter. Any idea which might work best with the Remington rifling? I am anxious to send some lead downrange.

[Buckshot]

Question. My 43 Spanish Remington rolling block is service-ready. I see there are two bullet molds which might be used: the RCBS 43 Spanish bullet mold, and also an 11mm Mauser bullet mold, both .446 diameter. Does anyone have any idea which might be more accurate? It looks like the Mauser bullet might be shorter. Any idea which might work best with the Remington rifling? I am anxious to send some lead downrange.

They're not both .446", if you mean the RCBS moulds. Lyman does have a .446" mould available for the M71/84 Mauser but it's 340 grs. Lyman 1-Cavity Bullet Mold #446110 43 Mauser (11x60mm Rimmed Mauser, 11.15x60mm Rimmed Mauser) (446 Diameter) 340 Grain Flat Nose Product #: 705018 $63.99

RCBS mould: 82093 - .44-370-FN is their mould for the M71/84 Mauser and is a nominal .446" and available as a regular production SINGLE CAVITY mould. This from Midway:RCBS 1-Cavity Bullet Mold 44-370-FN 11mm, 44 Caliber (446 Diameter) 370 Grain Flat Nose Product #: 695503 $73.99

RCBS mould: 57918 - .43-370-FN is their mould TWO CAVITY for the 43 Spanish-Remington, and it is a special order/limited production mould that costs about $30 more. This from Midway: RCBS 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 43-370-FN 43 Caliber (439 Diameter) 370 Grain Flat Nose Product #: 653925 Status: Special Order, 30+ days $116.99

The 2 RCBS moulds are identical looking designs. Only their OD is different. Look at the RCBS boolit in my post #22. That's the .43 Spanish boolit. I also have the .44 RCBS for the 11mm Mauser. Same design, just .007" larger in OD.

..............Buckshot

[43spanish]

Thank you. I believe I will get the 370gr bullet.

[43spanish]

More specifically the .446.

[43spanish]

Today I ordered everything else I need for reloading the 43 Spanish. Got the RCBS 82093. I hope to share some pics of targets....if I can keep it on the paper. I'll be using Pyrodex RS as I have a can left over from years ago.

[43spanish]

How can I test lead hardness? I bought a bunch of lead ingots at a thrift store...wonder if they are soft enough for use in 43 Spanish.

[Buckshot]

How can I test lead hardness? I bought a bunch of lead ingots at a thrift store...wonder if they are soft enough for use in 43 Spanish.

..............You could buy a lead hardness tester from Cabin Tree, Lee, Hornady (?), or LBT if you want to know in BHN numbers. Or you can take an ingot of the soft and hard(er) alloys, place'em into a vise with a ball bearing between them and then crank the vise down. The BB will penetrate into the softer example farther.

However you don't HAVE to have dead soft lead to shoot well in some BPC, or muzzle loading applications. The British, who'd been shooting small bore MLers (mainly 45 cals) in competition to 1000 yards since the late 1850's knew full well about alloying antimoney to get a harder slug. But admitedly they operated at higher pressures then the military 58 cals. Probably not more then what a .43 Spanish case would deliver. Most the small bore long range rifles operated with 85 to 90 some grains of powder and a 500 - 560gr slug.

I'd say if you can readily gouge the lead with a thumbnail it'd be soft enough. Remember too, you're starting with a slug that is already larger then the groove diameter. The main issue will be the boolit's flight through the throat from the caseneck to the rifling. It would be educational to be able to fire several rounds into a soft dirt, or sand berm and recover as many fired slugs as possible. Remember, the Rem RB chambered .43 Spanish has a throat a few thousandths larger in OD then the OD of the caseneck. In other words the boolit has to traverse (unsupported) the area from the caseneck and into the rifling. If gas cutting were going to occur, this whould be where it happened, and by recovering a few slugs you'd be able to see if ti was going to be an issue.

.................Buckshot

[43spanish]

My gunsmith did note the long throat. He loaded cartridges with the bullet set rather shallow in the case in order to reach the beginning of the rifling. Is there any rule on how deeply a bullet must be set in a case?

[Buckshot]

My gunsmith did note the long throat. He loaded cartridges with the bullet set rather shallow in the case in order to reach the beginning of the rifling. Is there any rule on how deeply a bullet must be set in a case?

............Nope, no rule. If it's going to be handled, the boolit should be seated sufficiently to be secure. I doubt deep seating will ever be an issue here, but is in small capacity cases. A boolit seated deeper then the recipe calls for, (mainly pistol loads) or driven deeper as is possible in autos, may drasticly raise pressures because the boolit/bullet represents a comparatively large area.

...............Buckshot

[43spanish]

Thank you.

[43spanish]

I have one and it's groove dia. is .442. So, been down that road. Some of the .440 molds may work OK. I tried some with so-so results. I finally just designed a mold myself. Used the Mountain Mold online feature and ordered one. It drops a .444 diameter grease groove/gas checked bullet weighing .380 gr. with alloy of about BHN 12. I use a honed-out Lee push thru die of .443. I pan lube with a fairly soft lube good for both BP & smokeless. My favorite load is 21 gr. 5744 with .75gr of high loft dacron filler. I seat the bullet out so the front drive band just contacts the bore leade and do not crimp the case mouth. That load produces excellent accuracy in my gun with a MV of 1144 fps with an SD of 11 fps. The BP load of 65 gr FF with fiber base wad produces fine results but the mild 5744 smokeless load is the most consistent.

Have you tried any loads with good hunting accuracy which give higher velocity?