6.5 Carcano

[gunnut14]

I have read several posts on them and was wondering if one would be a good buy?
Saw several at a gunshop for $175.
Was not impressed by its looks ( it didn't call out to me).
Better option than the Carcano?


gunnut14

[odfairfaxsub]

i am parital to my 7.35 carcano finn marked's looks. its a sturdy feeling sexy rifle.

[Link23]

i have a youth model 6.5, the one made for the old men and 14 year old boys, i like it but its one of the safe queens...

[JeffinNZ]

I have a trimmed FAT41 in 6.5mm. It's a great rifle. I joy to carry in the field. Mild to shoot.

[gew98]

I have had vetterli converted to 6,5 , 91 rifles , 91/24 Truppe especiale ,M91 Moschetto's, M38's in 6,5 & 7,35 and a couple M41's over the years. Loaded for and shot them all. With issue non adujustable sights they were pretty much a joke to get on target with every once in a while one that shot to point of aim.But nothing impressive really. The mannlicher clip loading precluded a direct above bore scope if one chose to do so and the carcano bolt was not the smoothest and the safety...well cave man.

[MtGun44]

WIth a proper side mount for the scope, they could work reasonably well. I agree that the
stock sights are amazingly bad. I have to put the tiniest bit of tip of the front sight visible
in the bottom of the super deep V notch to get to about 18" high at 100 yds.

I have no idea what they had in mind with those sights, they seem designed to guarantee
misses over the enemy's heads every shot.

Bill

[roverboy]

They're not bad rifles, but the sights are pretty bad. I have to agree with a old man I used to work with. He said "with the way most Carcano's shoot, no wonder they lost WWII". That statement is not meant to offend anyone. Its just a quote.

[JeffinNZ]

They shoot good enough for this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/SC3522157010030214370.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Roo%20trip%2010/IMG_0001.jpg

[Gtek]

Man you guy's have big rats! Gtek

[jonk]

WIth some judicious work with a file and dremel, you can adapt a high mauser sight to fit the carcano front sight base and eliminate the high shot problem.

Using jacketed my FAT 41 will shoot 2" all day at 100 yards.

With cast or jacketed my 7.35 will do about 3".

Nothing wrong with these guns, just horrible sights.

[Uncle Grinch]

While I did not do this work (traded for it this way), Carcano's can be a nice rifle. They remind me of the GEW88 Mannlicher rifles, which are getting high dollar prices now a days...

Here is the 6.5 that I got on a trade...

[leadman]

I had a Beretta made Carcano at one time that was a great shooter with 160gr roundnose jacketed. I had a gunsmith install a higher front sight and then filed it for 100 yard poi.

kinda sorry I sold it now. The gun was like new.

[herbert buckland]

Most of the bad press of the Carcano acuracy comes from yousing old mil surp amo or under sized 6.5 bullets.the Carcano needs a biger than standard 6.5 bullet to preform and then it can be as acurate as any military rifle of the time,agree that the sights on some modles are terible but some are as good as any from the period,on my 41 carbine I braised the frot sight and then filed it so it hits point of aim at 100metersit makes a very handy ute rifle for the farm and has taken many dingos ,foxs and other asorted pests

[JIMinPHX]

I kind of like those little Italian rifles, but $175 is a bit above market value for around here unless it's a really nice one. They are not that plentiful anymore, but when I do see them, they usually don't sell for much more than $125ish.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

my dad bought one of those about 15 years ago at a gun show paid as much for 2 boxes of ammo as he did for the gun , he shot about 5 rounds decided he couldn't hit what he was aiming at with it and put it in the back corner of the safe , i may have to dig it out and give it a go

[ElDorado]

$175 does seem a little high, but it may depend on location, too.

I do know you'll need to find clips unless you're willing to shoot it single-shot. The bores usually run a little bit big; both of mine are .268". You'll probably want to find a nice fat boolit mould. Commercial ammo just rattles down the bore.

You'll also need a supply of brass. Norma was the only source for boxer-primed brass for years, and it was pricey (it still is). Now that Prvi Partizan is available, I just buy the loaded ammo and reload the brass.

I think there are better 6.5s out there as far as accuracy and component/ammo availablity, but my only experience is with the Carcano.

[gunnut14]

Anybody,
Can the brass be formed from anything readily available?
If so what?


gunnut14

[ElDorado]

Anybody,
Can the brass be formed from anything readily available?
If so what?


gunnut14

Not anything that I've found. As far as I remember, the case head is closest to the size of a 7.62x39 than anything else that's readily available, but the 6.5 Carcano is too long to form from that brass. I'm not sure it would be suitable even if it was long enough.

[DCM]

Anybody,
Can the brass be formed from anything readily available?
If so what?


gunnut14

6.5x54MS, but before you do that take a look at http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/701?

[JIMinPHX]

Somebody still had clips for those things. I think it was Numrich, but I'm not sure.

[ElDorado]

Well, I just had to look. They have 'em - $5.05 apiece!


http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=499620&catid=1575

[MtGun44]

You can find the Mannlicher clips fairly often at gun shows, but you need to have one
to load the rifle conveniently, or to use the magazine at all. AND they drop out the
bottom after the final round feeds out of it and are therefore easily lost or stepped on.
I have about 8 or 10 and am very careful with them. Most gun show prices are $2 or
$3 so far, but I don't see them getting cheaper.

Bill

[JeffinNZ]

I get mine from Sarco Inc.

[JIMinPHX]

buffalo arms has the clips too, but they cost a little more
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=163909

[Buckshot]

.............The Carcano's aren't bad rifles. In fact they were state of the art when Italy accepted the design into service. Negatives aimed at the clips can be also said about those for the Garand and it was accepted into service 45 years AFTER the Carcano. The bolt CAN be a bit stiff to operate, and the manual issued to troops suggested the bolt be operated positively and with 'gusto' (however that translates into Italian).

The fixed sights were designed to be used against narrow tall targets, from point blank range to something like 350 yards. You're supposed to bury the front blade deep into the rear "V" for closer targets. All in all the things are really no larger then they have to be (other then the original 1891's) and the fixed sights make them pretty soldier proof.

They're not, or didn't used to be held in very high regard for a multitude of reasons from not being very "Sporter-izable" to being cheap and unsafe. The former can be debated and the later is simply false and has no grounds in fact. Due to the bad press they'd been very cheap up until the past 10 years or so which has seen the prices creep up. Part of that may also be just like most all other mil-surps, the supply is fairly exhausted in any depth.

http://www.fototime.com/9C06A0D0704C216/standard.jpg

This is my M38 in 7.35 x 51 Carcano. The photo has it with a straight bolt, but it's been long since replaced with the correct turned down bolt handle. I paid $75 for it about 10 years ago. I've seen worse go for $100 more.

http://www.fototime.com/058EDB5DDBDF445/standard.jpg

The above targets were fired with the M38 on it's very first range outting. Some of the loads are legible on the targets, and a couple of them were over 2000 fps. Considering all the loads were extrapolated, and they used the Lee C309 - 150 that was lube-sized .308" and then run up through a ho-made .301" die, those targets aren't as poor as some appear. The groove slugs .301" and the lands are .294". Considering that, the boolits had to be seated pretty deep as the NOSES were .300" and no way would they fit in the barrel!

http://www.fototime.com/9CC81583032A470/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/CC4F620CC8FC8CF/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/371130D084561ED/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/B26D2494941FFC5/standard.jpg

This is my M91 Mochetto TS, 6.5x52. It was built after Italy capitulated so it doesn't have the Roman numerals denoting the current date of the Socialist regime. I don't think it was ever even issued. I've fired this only with the 160gr RNSP .268" slugs Hornady offered. While it isn't a varmint rifle, I sure wouldn't want to be standing in front of it [smilie=l:

.............Buckshot

[DCM]

Cheaper than dirt had clips for them at one time, I do not remember the price.

These rifles are safer than the wives tales would have one believe. Dave Emary with Hornady tried unsuccessfully to intentionally blow one up by using a heavy dose of way to fast powder for a demonstration. Due to lacking load data for my wives' 7.35mm I tried some things I cannot recommend and got some very high velocities and a very hard to operate bolt, but nothing else worth noting.

The thing I really hate about the Carcano is the odd and difficult safety, push real hard and turn. My wife cannot operate it at all. My advice to her is keep the bolt unlocked instead.

[JeffinNZ]

My advice to her is keep the bolt unlocked instead.

That's how I carry mine in the field. Yes, the safety is not so user friendly. Still, the Italians never actually had to release the safety in order to drop them and run..............:-)

[ElDorado]

Still, the Italians never actually had to release the safety in order to drop them and run..............:-)

That reminds me of a story my father told me years ago.

He worked at a naval shipyard on the west coast. Back in the fifties, there was an Italian who worked in the crew who had been a prisoner of war, and spent his captivity working in a nearby arsenal. Somehow, he'd met a woman here, and after he was repatriated at war's end, he came back and married her and spent his life here.

The best that I can recollect the story of his capture, he was fighting, I think, in North Africa (I'm not sure), and his unit (I don't know how many men) was captured by a lone Australian soldier, smoking a pipe, who picked them off one by one until the survivors surrendered. They shot back, but couldn't hit him.

I always get a kick thinking about that calm Australian, under fire, picking off the enemy and enjoying his pipe.

[JeffinNZ]

It's the Antipodean way. We're just mean with ammo.

[Four Fingers of Death]

AV Ballistics in Australia are producing Lebel 3 round clips and reckon they will be producing new Carcano clips which will be available in early 2012. Looks promising.

[kywoodwrkr]

Anybody,
Can the brass be formed from anything readily available?
If so what?


gunnut14
But why( I know, I will make brass from something even if I have the correct available-but I suffer from OCD!) At Grafs:
http://www.grafs.com/pictures/64/ppa65x52sp.jpg (http://www.grafs.com/dealer/product/210169) PRVI AMMO 6.5x52 CARCANO 123gr SP 20/bx 25/cs (http://www.grafs.com/dealer/product/210169)

Item Number: PPA65X52SP · Availability: In stock
http://www.grafs.com/dealer/i/arrow.gifAdd to Cart (http://www.grafs.com/dealer/h/cart-add.php?id=210169) http://www.grafs.com/dealer/i/arrow.gifPrice: $13.59
Above price is dealer cost, regular cost is $15.99.
139 gr FMJ same price.
But loaded.
Not sure if bullet is heavy jacket and larger as required by Carcano or not.
Hornady makes a heavy jacket bullet in .268 specifically for the Carcano.
Gain twist(model dependent) can be a bear on some bullets.
FWIW

[MtGun44]

The reason they couldn't hit the Aussy was that their guns shoot 3-4 ft high, the sights are
so screwed up.

Bill

[Lonegun1894]

I have NOT done this, but found some information... this is coming from The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions, 3rd Edition, by John J. Donnelly and Bryce Towsley, page 445.

6.5x52mm Mannlicher-Carcano

"make from .220 Swift. Cut off rim and deepen extractor groove. Size in 6.5 M/C sizer. Trim to lenght. Chamfer. F/L size. .270 Win may also be used by swaging base to .446" dia., annealing, sizing, and I.D. neck reaming."

Like I said, I have not done this, so this is per the book and not based on any actual experience with this caliber. Best of luck, I hope the above information helps, and please let us know how it works if you try this.

[perotter]

10-15 years ago I converted 100 .220 Swift cases to 6.5x52mm Mannlicher-Carcano. I didn't deepen the extractor groove. I work fine in the one Carcano that it is used in.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Privi Partisan have saved us mil sup shooters a lot of grief, thats for sure. Off the shelf and at bulk brass prices, I have bought 7.65 French for my MAS, 8MM Lebel for my Berthier, 6.5 Jap for my 38, 7.65 Russian for my Remingotn rusty nugget and loaded ammo for my 7.65 Swiss. As Monty Burns would say, Excelllllllent!

[Donor8x56r]

How shooter friendly are sights on Long Carcano?

Is sight picture similar to K98 or better/worse?

[MtGun44]

Not sure about the long but if it is like the carbines, the rear notch is really a mess.

About 1/8" wide at top, deep vee about 1.5 times that deep. On a Mauser, the rear
notch is about 1/32 to 1/16 wide at top and about 1/16" deep. The only way I have
ever gotten one on the paper is putting the tiniest tip of the front in the very extreme
bottom of the super deep rear Vee.

This is carbines, so may be better with rifles. I kinda like Carcanos, but the sights are
the real weak point, IMO.

Bill

[Four Fingers of Death]

Not sure about the long but if it is like the carbines, the rear notch is really a mess.

About 1/8" wide at top, deep vee about 1.5 times that deep. On a Mauser, the rear
notch is about 1/32 to 1/16 wide at top and about 1/16" deep. The only way I have
ever gotten one on the paper is putting the tiniest tip of the front in the very extreme
bottom of the super deep rear Vee.

This is carbines, so may be better with rifles. I kinda like Carcanos, but the sights are
the real weak point, IMO.

Bill

On most of these rifles, you can see that they were made for 18-20 year old soldiers, the sights are so hard to use. The P14, M17, SMLE and No4 must have had the home guard in mind, the sights are very user friendly for old eyes.

I haven't handled a Carcano since I owned one and that was many years ago. I can't remember the sights, but I was in my mid 20s at the time and my eyesight was brilliant, so I don't remember it being a problem. If I handed one now I'm sure I'd find them pretty awkward.